The reason most job postings end with “Experienced Required”

[GetYouSomeofThat]

This is NOT to bash Tee Martin. I am a big fan of Tee. I mean the guy won us a natl championship. But nowhere else can a person be considered for a major management job with zero experience. And I know you have to have a chance to get said experience, but you start small like an OC which he did. Then you cut your teeth in the smaller schools comparing wits with guys on your experience level. Tee is a great recruiter and a better than average OC. Being African American doesn’t hurt anything either. I’d say that’s a plus in this case. And please don’t make this about race. But any good business person wants some sense of security when making a hire this big and experience with a proven track record provides that sense of security. Especially after the last decade and the fiasco that has followed since. But IMO a resume that is blank when it comes to the job in question is probably not the best thing for this situation. I’m sure I’m in the minority when it comes to hiring Tee, but hiring with your heart instead of your head usually turns out to be a bad idea. JMO

Fulmer
Kiffin
Dooley
Jones

Which one of these coaches had zero experience as a head coach prior to taking the reins at UT?


I'll hang up and listen to your answer

 

[Flyinhighvol]

I wasn’t for Tee as HC when Currie was AD. But now Fulmer is AD I’m all for it. These guys know how to work together. Since they obviously have a NC together. Plus Tee has Fulmer and his to draw off of. They work well together. I think it’s a match. I’m in

 

[KCVolLaw]

And every single one of those coaches were assistants for YEARS before getting their chance at being a head coach...Once again, Tee Martin is NOT ready to be a head coach...If he gets offered and takes the job then it will be a huge mistake and possibly career suicide if he fails and odds are he will fail...I love the guy and hope he will be UT's coach one day but how about paying your dues first and then go for the glory.

Tee has been an assistant coach for "YEARS". Anyone against his hiring has nothing to back it up besides "he's not ready". Dumb

 

[allvol123]

I think it would be safe to assume it's north of a million

Hopefully well north, does not go far in LA.

 

[volzfanz]

USC offense is a highly ranked offense behind
Louisville - possible candidate
UCF - possible candidate
USF - possible candidate
Memphis - possible candidate
SMU - possible candidate
Though admittedly none of these guys are doing it at a school like USC. And none have the TN connection like Tee. But good OCs aren’t hard to find. Proven HCs are. So when there is one out there just sitting and waiting you at least talk to the guy.

 

[DiderotsGhost]

And every single one of those coaches were assistants for YEARS before getting their chance at being a head coach...Once again, Tee Martin is NOT ready to be a head coach...If he gets offered and takes the job then it will be a huge mistake and possibly career suicide if he fails and odds are he will fail...I love the guy and hope he will be UT's coach one day but how about paying your dues first and then go for the glory.

Tee has been an assistant for 12 years. He played professional football for several years before that. There's always been a weird double-standard for Tee among certain Tennessee fans. There was a contingent of fans that disliked him as he led us to a national championship season. Tee could win 3 national titles as an OC at USC and we'd still see the same damn arguments.

Mike Gundy was a Head Coach at age 37. Remember his "I'm a man, I'm 40!" rant? Lincoln Riley is several years younger than Tee and has less experience. Oklahoma is 11-1 this season. I'm just not buying these arguments.

Some school is going to eventually hire Tee and we're going to look like fools. Other than Brent Venables, he's arguably the best assistant coach in the country. I'm not saying I'm opposed to hiring a Tier 1 coach with a proven track record (like Mike Leach), but Tee Martin is sure as hell better as candidates like Jeff Brohm, Les Miles, and many of the other names being mentioned. This idea that Tee needs to be a "Head Coach in Waiting" is likewise ridiculous.

Tee is easily a top 5 candidate for the job and his upside is probably the highest of any candidate. He's the best recruiter of any candidate mentioned. He's one of the best offensive minds out there. He can build a top-quality staff. The only thing he hasn't proven is a few organization skills associated with being a Head Coach. That gives him significantly fewer question marks than most of the other candidates.

If we can get Mike Leach, OK. But I'd take Tee over almost every other candidate still being mentioned.

 

[golfballs]

David Shaw
Dabo Swinney
Mark Richt
Phil Fulmer
Mike Gundy
Jimbo Fisher
Lincoln Riley
Kirby Smart
Dan Mullen

All took over P5 programs with no head coaching experience. All have been successful. This narrative that you have to spend 8 years at Eastern Michigan and San Diego State before being successful as a head coach at a P5 school is simply false. This type of thinking gets you coaches like Derek Dooley and Butch Jones, rather than top-notch assistants like Tee Martin and Brent Venables.

How many only came from 2 years experience producing mediocre results, and learning under a only somewhat competent head coach at best?

 

[volfan102455]

David Shaw
Dabo Swinney
Mark Richt
Phil Fulmer
Mike Gundy
Jimbo Fisher
Lincoln Riley
Kirby Smart
Dan Mullen

All took over P5 programs with no head coaching experience. All have been successful. This narrative that you have to spend 8 years at Eastern Michigan and San Diego State before being successful as a head coach at a P5 school is simply false. This type of thinking gets you coaches like Derek Dooley and Butch Jones, rather than top-notch assistants like Tee Martin and Brent Venables.

Many of those coaches moved into HC at the school they were a coordinator at (Swinney, Gundy, Riley, Fulmer). They did not have to hire new staff. They had familiarity with the program and the staff that was there. That is a different kind of experience and patterns an upward move with the same employer.

The others you mentioned had many years as coordinators or AHC before taking on the HC role (Richt 16 years with 6 years as a coordinator at FSU), Fisher (10 years as OC at various schools including FSU), Smart (coordinator 9 years, 8 at Bama), Mullen (15 years coaching with 4 as an OC).

I would not classify Martin as an equal to any of those individuals - in 2 to 3 years, either as a continued successful OC or a HC at a smaller non P5 school, yes. But he is NOT on the same level as those you mentioned in terms of experience. He is just not.

A key question would be to ask the AD at USC if he would promote Martin to HC tomorrow if the current HC left or would he look elsewhere first. I would bet that answer would be that he would look elsewhere first.

Just my opinion - if Martin wants to return to his alma mater, then do it as OC and grow into the role of HC like Fulmer did.

 

[volzfanz]

Fulmer
Kiffin
Dooley
Jones

Which one of these coaches had zero experience as a head coach prior to taking the reins at UT?

Again you listed four guys. There is a long list of rookie head coaches that didn’t do very well at all. A LONG LONG list. I can’t believe we even need to argue that having a choice between a proven HC at a Power 5 school with a .750 career winning percentage, a Natl Championship, and a National Coach of the Year award vs a decent OC on the job for a short time with no HC experience. I’m not saying Tee would fail. I’m saying that where this program is right now, we need a safer bet than high hopes. And just because he is a TN guy won’t help anything if we lose 8 games next year and fail to make another bowl game. There are much better safer options out there before we go the Tee Martin route. And he may very well be the only guy willing to take the job when it’s all said and done. If so I will support him 100%. But better resumes are there for the taking. And we can’t afford to miss this time.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

If we're talking about high flying offenses let's go get Mike Norvell. Former OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR and Quarterbacks coach, who made former Vol, Riley Ferguson, into a very good QB. He also has two years head coach experience.

 

[volfan102455]

Mike Gundy was a Head Coach at age 37. Remember his "I'm a man, I'm 40!" rant? Lincoln Riley is several years younger than Tee and has less experience. Oklahoma is 11-1 this season. I'm just not buying these arguments.

Age is not the issue - Look at experience and how these two worked up the chain rather than their age. They were OCs at the schools where they were promoted to HC. No staff to hire or learn how to work with.

It would be like you being promoted to the next level at your current job. If the company you work for decides to look outside - they would look for someone experienced at that role first not someone they have to train.

 

[DiderotsGhost]

How many only came from 2 years experience producing mediocre results, and learning under a only somewhat competent head coach at best?

Pac-12 Championship + (21 - 5 record) + Rose Bowl victory over top 5 team + #3 ranking to finish season in 2016 = "mediocre results"

If only Tennessee had been achieving these "mediocre results" over the past 10 years, I'd be pretty thrilled.

 

[volfan102455]

How many only came from 2 years experience producing mediocre results, and learning under a only somewhat competent head coach at best?

Exactly. Some have blinders on because of who he is. They need to look at his resume and not who he is.

 

[volzfanz]

If you owned a company that was about to go under and you had one last shot to save it, would you put your faith in a completely unproven guy with no experience or a guy that you could feel safe would give you a good return and stabilize your company to allow for future growth. No coach is gonna win the Natl Championship here next year. But some available candidates are likely (not guaranteed) to give you 8 or so wins and get you to a decent bowl game next year. Then maybe even better the year after that when the stench of all this is gone and the recruits start flowing in and public perception is better.

 

[volfan102455]

Pac-12 Championship + (21 - 5 record) + Rose Bowl victory over top 5 team + #3 ranking to finish season in 2016 = "mediocre results"

If only Tennessee had been achieving these "mediocre results" over the past 10 years, I'd be pretty thrilled.

Martin is NOT the HC at USC. That is Clay Helton.

 

[volzfanz]

Again we aren’t here to bash Tee. But if you are gonna look at his results then you can only grade the offense. Not the overall record. USC’s offense ranks behind several others with available head coaches. I know they have tougher opponents, but Tee also has what most consider the best NFL prospect QB to work with. JG is not that type of QB yet. And Tee is part of the reason for the success, but his QB didn’t just start playing this year.

 

[volzfanz]

And like others have said, promoting from within where you know everything about a place and it’s staff/players is different than hiring with no experience.

 

[volfan102455]

And I do hope Fulmer is smarter than most on this board. He has a very hard decision. And I hope the support he has right now stays high if he decides to select experience over a former player - but I fear those former players are going to turn on him if he does.

The trouble is there doesn't seem to be a former player out there in the coaching ranks that has a resume better than some of the HC out there that may be interested in the job.

For those who are so bent on Tee - do you not believe we should consider a coach like Sumlin, Leach, Peterson, Shaw, Miles, etc. if they are willing to talk?

 

[volzfanz]

And I do hope Fulmer is smarter than most on this board. He has a very hard decision. And I hope the support he has right now stays high if he decides to select experience over a former player - but I fear those former players are going to turn on him if he does.

The trouble is there doesn't seem to be a former player out there in the coaching ranks that has a resume better than some of the HC out there that may be interested in the job.

For those who are so bent on Tee - do you not believe we should consider a coach like Sumlin, Leach, Peterson, Shaw, Miles, etc. if they are willing to talk?

Common sense tells them yes. But their hearts say we owe it to Tee. And Fulmer loves Tee. Tee will likely be our next coach. And even though I don’t think it’s our best option, I don’t think he will be an utter failure by any means. If he gets a good staff and he recruits like we know he will then he will hopefully do a decent job. Might as well get ready for it and get behind him because I can pretty much guarantee you that’s Fulmers guy. But I’m no insider by any means.

 

[volzfanz]

Miles, Leach, and Sumlin are ripe for the taking. But I’m afraid Kiffin won’t even be discussed. I mean he did replace the guy Now doing the hiring. Prob a bad sign. And FSU will scoop him up soon enough. Or Frost who we seem to not even want to interview anyway for some reason.

 

[Vol Main]

If Phil hires Tee to be HC, I won't hoot and holler with enthusiasm, but I'll be okay with it. I have not seen enough of Tee over the past few years to feel knowledgable. But I do think Tee is comfortable with responsibilities of the game, and HC is his next step. My guess is, my sense of the situation is that he will be successful. I am not talking about a straight line. Tee is trending up.

 

[rtr88]

It seems Experience is not required to be an AD:zeitung_lesen:

good point

 

[volzfanz]

If Phil hires Tee to be HC, I won't hoot and holler with enthusiasm, but I'll be okay with it. I have not seen enough of Tee over the past few years to feel knowledgable. But I do think Tee is comfortable with responsibilities of the game, and HC is his next step. My guess is, my sense of the situation is that he will be successful. I am not talking about a straight line. Tee is trending up.

That’s a fair assessment. And reasonable. Something you don’t see much of around here. It’s an ok hire that we will get behind and probably be OK for now and trend upwards as he gains experience. I guess we could do worse. Well I know we could. We almost have a few times now

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Simple truth is, every hire of a new head coach is a gamble. Whether the guy comes from an OC/DC job, or a Group of 5 head coaching gig, or some position in the NFL. Even hiring a sitting Power 5 head coach away. It is always a gamble.

And I'm not sure that there's any more (or less) chance of success whether the guy is a Power 5 OC/DC or a Group of 5 HC. The two seem like equally valid career paths to me. Hiring a Power 5 HC away does seem to be more of a known quantity, but even then you never know. Brohm from Purdue? Dunno. Fisher from FSU to A&M? More likely to succeed, I'd say.

But they're all gambles, and many of them (aside from the Fisher types) roughly equivalent.

That's how it appears to me.

 

[JohnnyBall]

I see no chance of that. He has the #1 draft pick likely returning next year or take over at UT as OC. It’s a no brainer. He is on a path to be a HC very soon at USC. Only way he comes is HC.

If you think Tee Martin is gonna be head coach EVER in Southern California well....