The QB situation (merged)

#76
#76
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
No. We understand the benefits of better coaching. Guarantano just never flashed much talent. Plus the fact he's so slow and has such bad instincts in the pocket is what bothers me.

I can't excuse how lost he looked reacting to pressure. That is natural instincts kick in. He showed no elusiveness, awareness of pressure, or explosiveness.

He looked like a statue in the pocket.
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I almost wanted to keep debating you, but then i remembered how laughable almost all of your talent assesments have been and decided it would be like playing chess with a pidgeon, despite the outcome all you will do is $#!t all over this board and strut off like you won anyway.
 
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#77
#77
k-town_king said:
He does and Dilfer wasn't paid to say it like Simms was paid by the Shrout family. Of course Simms is going to hype someone he has a financial interest in.
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“Paid” as in ATTENDING A CAMP? Why not all the other QB attendees? Does saying the ridiculous in a loop desensitize? :blink:
 
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#80
#80
BloomuVol said:
What is the role of a QB? Only in the triple option or a spread based attack is rushing a major factor in a qb's statistics. Because we all can name the top 3 rushing qb's in nfl history right? No? How about top 3 in passing yards? Most casual fans can name three of the top 5 passing yards qbs.
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To win games. And rushing TDs and yards last I checked count as much as passing TDs and yards. Dobbs in 2014 won games in the SEC with his legs as well as his arm. Something Guarantano was totally incapable of doing in the SEC.

I just think it's silly to say 2017 Guarantano is comparable to 2014 Dobbs when everyone here knows that is not the case. Those passing stats are clear example of numbers lying.

Guarantano didn't have a performance last year that came close to the game Dobbs had against South Carolina in 2014.
 
#81
#81
BloomuVol said:
I think you are confusing shrout for thomson(works with simms).
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I thought he was referring to the camp that JT attended. You may be right. I don’t remember if Simms was one of those former NFL evaluators.
 
#82
#82
UTVolWarrior98 said:
I don't know about most of you, but I really do not feel that JG is going to be that great of a QB for us. He hasn't shown me one glimpse of GREATNESS. Sure, he has shown grit, toughness and that he can take a hard hit and get right back up and brush himself off, which I admire. But, the point here is that his arm strength is way overrated and that he isn't that accurate of a thrower. He is ok, but not GOOD. He doesn't show me flashes of a 5 star dual-threat QB at all. Look at the Tua Taglioulia Freshman from Alabama. Do you think JG could pull that kind of performance off in the clutch? lol Not even close. Im sorry, but I just don't see it. No way he should have been ranked #1 dual-threat QB coming out of HS. I mean the guy was named Mr. New Jersey! Personally, I think he sucks and is not the answer for our Vols.

Your thoughts?
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My thought is.... Stop. Wait. Listen.
 
#83
#83
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
If you think the guy who played against Alabama in 2014 and led the epic comeback over South Carolina is comparable to the guy who didn't win a single game is comprable then so be it.

And its disingenuous that you didn't include the rushing stats. Its not like JG wasn't touted as a dual-threat QB during the recruiting cycle. And now y'all are pretending like rushing is irrelevant to his play.

I wish Guarantano was as good as those pretty nice passing stats suggest. But I saw nothing from him while watching the games to think he will develop into a good player.
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I posted freshman to freshman stats and you wanted Dobbs' sophomore stats. Then, I gave the same categories, yet this time you wanted to talk about his running ability. Dobbs is likely the best running QB the Vols have ever had...no question about that.

But, you have to admit a sophomore QB that played as a freshman has a huge advantage over a redshirt freshman that has never taken a snap in a college game. Also, Dobbs had quite a big advantage in WR targets compared to Guarantano. Plus, the entire team was spinning out of control with a coach that quit under pressure during the season.

The facts are that no one knows how good Guarantano will or won't be. You may think this way or that, but you really don't know. Nobody knows. Just how many of these same great Volnation QB evaluators predicted that Nate Peterman would beat Clemson and play for the Buffalo Bills as a rookie? Oh...no one? You mean not a single one of you predicted this? You must be kidding, right?

Well, I rest my case.
 
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#84
#84
GAVol said:
He was hurt the last month of the season.
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He never looked good running from the first game he played. He also showed poor instincts in the pocket from the jump. It wasn't just that he held onto the ball. He never showed any awareness of pressure (which is why he took so many big hits in the pocket).

And on the off chance he saw the pressure he couldn't react quick enough to make the man and gain some positive yards. Maybe we just got too used to Dobbs but Guarantano looked terrible in this regard last year.
 
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#85
#85
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
To win games. And rushing TDs and yards last I checked count as much as passing TDs and yards. Dobbs in 2014 won games in the SEC with his legs as well as his arm. Something Guarantano was totally incapable of doing in the SEC.

I just think it's silly to say 2017 Guarantano is comparable to 2014 Dobbs when everyone here knows that is not the case. Those passing stats are clear example of numbers lying.

Guarantano didn't have a performance last year that came close to the game Dobbs had against South Carolina in 2014.
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How many rushing tds did mcbride have? Jg actually got injured on a rushing td.
And actually if the reciever hadnt dropped the ball that hit him in both hands in the endzone, jg would have led a last minute drive to beat scar, if you actually go back and look at the last drive jg was impressive moving the ball 70ish yards in three or four plays to set up that drop.
 
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#87
#87
butchna said:
I thought he was referring to the camp that JT attended. You may be right. I don’t remember if Simms was one of those former NFL evaluators.
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I dont know if simms was one that was touting shrout( i did read that sean mcvay was raving about him which i would consider a good endorsement), but i do remember seeing that he is the one that was doing all the pumping for Thomson
 
#88
#88
DiderotsGhost said:
I'm higher on JG than most, but the real problem is that he's the only serviceable QB on the roster. Shrout is a project who isn't going to be ready for a few years minimum. VN is dramatically overrating McBride; his stats were awful and he was a horrendous passer. He needs a ton of work to be able to fit into a pro-style system and I'm not optimistic he'll ever get there. We probably don't want to have to throw a walk-on into a game, so that basically leaves us with 1 guy who can play QB in a pro-style system in the SEC next season.

I definitely think going after a grad transfer is a smart move with Dormady gone. Worst case is that our 2nd string QB is a lot better; best case is that he could come in and take over as starter immediately, leaving JG as the likely starter in 2019. Right now, if JG gets injured early in the season, we could be staring at a 3-win season.
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I hink he is more of a pro style QB than a spread QB anyway. I think he will be fine. Give him a line (better coaching and better scheme for the line) and a get the running game going and he will do ok. JMHO
 
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#91
#91
UTVolWarrior98 said:
I don't know about most of you, but I really do not feel that JG is going to be that great of a QB for us. He hasn't shown me one glimpse of GREATNESS. Sure, he has shown grit, toughness and that he can take a hard hit and get right back up and brush himself off, which I admire. But, the point here is that his arm strength is way overrated and that he isn't that accurate of a thrower. He is ok, but not GOOD. He doesn't show me flashes of a 5 star dual-threat QB at all. Look at the Tua Taglioulia Freshman from Alabama. Do you think JG could pull that kind of performance off in the clutch? lol Not even close. Im sorry, but I just don't see it. No way he should have been ranked #1 dual-threat QB coming out of HS. I mean the guy was named Mr. New Jersey! Personally, I think he sucks and is not the answer for our Vols.

Your thoughts?
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Not sold but think with the right coach he might be something. He's tough that's for sure.
 
#93
#93
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
He never looked good running from the first game he played. He also showed poor instincts in the pocket from the jump. It wasn't just that he held onto the ball. He never showed any awareness of pressure (which is why he took so many big hits in the pocket).

And on the off chance he saw the pressure he couldn't react quick enough to make the man and gain some positive yards. Maybe we just got too used to Dobbs but Guarantano looked terrible in this regard last year.
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It would've helped to not get hit 20 times a game and constantly be on the run. Dobbs would've looked like a giraffe on ice a lot of times playing behind that line last year.
 
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#94
#94
FLVOL_79 said:
You're using drunk golf rules logic.

"I hit the ball on the green 35 feet from the pin! HOLE IN ONE!"

"Omg I drove it straight! PGA tour here I come!"

"JG completed 60% of his passes and no touchdowns in 4 games! GREATNESS!"

D1 SEC football is too fast for him. Factor in he has lead legs and his dual threat title falls flat, similiar to how he takes sacks.
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lol at saying d1 sec football is to fast for him
 
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#95
#95
Your thoughts?

You may be suffering Brain Freeze up North.

What I know. He can take a hit. He appears to want it.
CJP will figure it out. You and I can worry bout bigger issues.

And I know this. Who the QB is, is really not important unless the OL is fixed.........:hi:
 
#96
#96
hillsborovol said:
Which would you rather have:

1) 59.5% completion rate, 5.7 yards per attempt, 2 TDs and 6 INTs, or

2) 61.9% completion rate, 7.2 yards per attempt, 4 TDs and 2 INTs

#1 was Dobbs' freshman year and #2 was Guarantano.

Calm down and let's see what a good coaching staff can do.
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Finally, a voice of reason.

Personally, I could not care less if Elmer Fudd lines up behind center, as long as he plays well. I think we have to throw out everything we think we know about the QB's, and just wait and see how things shake out in the spring, and fall.

One thing that I do think is that this staff will put the QB on the field that gives us the best chance to win. And I wouldn't be surprised if the ETSU and UTEP games were "auditions" for who leads us forward from there.

Or...we could just keep *****ing about last year.

Go Vols.
 
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#97
#97
k-town_king said:
What did you expect with the coaching and players around him? He faced all bowl and or SEC teams each start.

61.9% overall and 65.1% vs SEC teams is pretty accurate.

He lead some great drives with us down already. We would have won the SC game on a late drive if not for a drop in the endzone.

I don't know what some of you expect. People who actually get paid to analyze this stuff all think he played well.

Its hard to have better numbers than he did in that situation.

His last four games he hit 67% of his passes for over 9 ypa. You think many freshman would do better than that?
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That last drive against SC was very impressive. JG has it and it will be developed this year.
 
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#98
#98
Volatility said:
I think it’s hard to rate any of our QB’s since they had to run for their lives on practically every play. Hopefully the OLine coach can help our guys unlearn whatever the former coaches did to them.
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True enough.

You might say the pass protection was a bit Volatile...
 
#99
#99
GAVol said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again. These QB discussions blow my mind. JG has plenty to work on and may or may not start next year, but it was very obvious to me that he can make SEC throws. No way you can write the guy off after his freshman year playing behind a garbage o-line.
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Its the need for instant gratification with the inability or lack of desire to think about cause and effect. I remember seeing threads wanting him kicked off the team the first time he didnt deal with adversity well. Same with Kongbo. Its crazy
 
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