The Problems with Trans-ideology

[NashVol11]

Those bills were in response to the push for trans people to use whatever facilities they wanted.

No that makes total sense, it was only a response to the “push” from trans people to do the thing they were already doing lol (a push that resulted in zero passed laws and AFAIK zero *attempts* to pass laws)

 

[CobbVol]

There hasn’t been an issue. Trans people have existed for centuries and have used the bathroom that whole time until the propaganda machine decided trans people and immigrants are everyone’s enemy and it’s an EMERGENCY. The change to their status quo for the worse didn’t come from trans people, not sure how you’re even arguing that with a straight face

... of their biological sex.

 

[hog88]

No that makes total sense, it was only a response to the “push” from trans people to do the thing they were already doing lol (a push that resulted in zero passed laws and AFAIK zero *attempts* to pass laws)

Yeah, they had been doing it discreetly for years and then they wanted to do it openly. To the best of my knowledge the backlash started when trans men wanted to openly use female locker rooms.

 

[NashVol11]

... of their biological sex.

This is not true at all lol

 

[NashVol11]

Yeah, they had been doing it discreetly for years and then they wanted to do it openly. To the best of my knowledge the backlash started when trans men wanted to openly use female locker rooms.

Still waiting on that link, source, etc. to back up the idea that the wave of anti-trans bills was actually not a “push” while the zero pro-trans bills is “pushing things too far” and forcing people to pass anti-trans laws

 

[MemphisVol77]

Gendered bathrooms weren't really a thing until the late 1800's, just FYI.

Progenitors of 1st wave feminism. They were willing to define a woman.

They're called TERF'S today.

 

[Sandman 423]

No that makes total sense, it was only a response to the “push” from trans people to do the thing they were already doing lol (a push that resulted in zero passed laws and AFAIK zero *attempts* to pass laws)

If you are going to allow males in the female bathrooms and vice versa, why not just make them all unisex?

 

[Franklin Pierce]

How Marjorie Taylor Greene's rant about the Trans Congresswoman forced Mike Johnson to act on restroom ban​

Marjorie Taylor Greene cunningly used a rant about new transgender lawmaker Sarah McBride to corner Speaker Mike Johnson into banning her from using the women's restroom.

Coming out of the private meeting with GOP leadership on Tuesday, Greene ripped into a reporter asking about her opposition to Representative-elect McBride using the women's restroom in the Capitol.

'If you're going to ask stupid questions, don't advocate for mentally ill men pretending to be women invading our spaces,' she shot back at the female reporter.


Greene doubled down: 'Yes, he's mentally ill. He's a biological male pretending to be a woman.'

She went on to disclose that Johnson told her behind closed doors that he supported a measure by Rep. Nancy Mace, R-S.C., that would ensure members only use bathrooms that correspond to their 'biological sex.'

How MTG forced Mike Johnson to act on transgender restroom ban

Marjorie Taylor Greene cunningly used a rant about new transgender lawmaker Sarah McBride to corner Speaker Mike Johnson into banning her from using the women's restroom.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[KB5252]

There hasn’t been an issue. Trans people have existed for centuries and have used the bathroom that whole time until the propaganda machine decided trans people and immigrants are everyone’s enemy and it’s an EMERGENCY. The change to their status quo for the worse didn’t come from trans people, not sure how you’re even arguing that with a straight face

It wasn't until it was demanded as a right and anyone who had reservations or resistance being labeled transphobic etc. as long as it had been considered the exception rather than demanded as the rule it wouldn't be the issue it is today.

Couple that with the assault by men on women's sports and locker rooms and supposedly smart, educated people push to support it rather than understanding why so many would have objections and you get where we are today.

People who don't support trans rights over the rights of women are tired of being vilified for what they consider common sense.

 

[LouderVol]

Still waiting on that link, source, etc. to back up the idea that the wave of anti-trans bills was actually not a “push” while the zero pro-trans bills is “pushing things too far” and forcing people to pass anti-trans laws

I am not following your logic here. bills are created all the time without responding to another bill. there wouldn't have to be a "pro" trans bill to justify an "anti" trans bill. there could just be a groundswell push to get trans into bathrooms, that triggered a bill to stop it.

there are examples of government's taking action outside of a bill. I don't think tampons in boy's rooms was because of a law in Minnesota. granted that case was well after this started, but its a proof of concept that bills aren't required to start the action that is viewed negatively.

the pro/anti thing is a misnomer anyway which makes things more extreme than they should be.

 

[gcbvol]

It's the same old story, really. Culture wars sell. Trans people are by far the biggest victims in all of this. Used by one side as political tokens and recipients of the punching down by the other side. Minority groups are always easy targets for this sh*t, and trans is today's minority to abuse.

 

[MemphisVol77]

Still waiting on that link, source, etc. to back up the idea that the wave of anti-trans bills was actually not a “push” while the zero pro-trans bills is “pushing things too far” and forcing people to pass anti-trans laws

Obama administration, 2nd term.

Take, for instance, the Obama administration's guidance to schools on transgender students that came out in the spring of 2016. It required schools to protect transgender students from harassment, accommodate their preferred names and pronouns, and give them access to the locker rooms and bathrooms of their choice.

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www.npr.org

Edit: Eventually democrats are gonna have to pass legislature through congress if they want to make 'trans-rights' a real and lasting thing.

With their inability to define a woman, it seems as if the nomenclature of that bill is beyond their capacity.

 

[LouderVol]

It's the same old story, really. Culture wars sell. Trans people are by far the biggest victims in all of this. Used by one side as political tokens and recipients of the punching down by the other side. Minority groups are always easy targets for this sh*t, and trans is today's minority to abuse.

the issue is the parties view any divisive action as too valuable to fix.

there are simple middle ground solutions that should make everyone happy, that aren't discussed by either side.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

True, back then most public bathrooms were one hitters with a lockable door.

One shi**ers, you mean.

 

[NashVol11]

I am not following your logic here. bills are created all the time without responding to another bill. there wouldn't have to be a "pro" trans bill to justify an "anti" trans bill. there could just be a groundswell push to get trans into bathrooms, that triggered a bill to stop it.

there are examples of government's taking action outside of a bill. I don't think tampons in boy's rooms was because of a law in Minnesota. granted that case was well after this started, but its a proof of concept that bills aren't required to start the action that is viewed negatively.

the pro/anti thing is a misnomer anyway which makes things more extreme than they should be.

But the groundswell push is being used to justify the wave of anti-trans laws and so I keep asking for evidence of this “groundswell push that went too far,” since everything rests on that, and am not seeing any

 

[NashVol11]

It's the same old story, really. Culture wars sell. Trans people are by far the biggest victims in all of this. Used by one side as political tokens and recipients of the punching down by the other side. Minority groups are always easy targets for this sh*t, and trans is today's minority to abuse.

Good way to sum it up

 

[gcbvol]

the issue is the parties view any divisive action as too valuable to fix.

there are simple middle ground solutions that should make everyone happy, that aren't discussed by either side.

Correct. The parties don't give the first **** about people. Minority groups are simply the easiest to use in getting their followers riled up. They don't care about any injury. No, it's all about politics. People are fodder.

 

[NashVol11]

Obama administration, 2nd term.

Edit: Eventually democrats are gonna have to pass legislature through congress if they want to make 'trans-rights' a real and lasting thing.

With their inability to define a woman, it seems as if the nomenclature of that bill is beyond their capacity.

That was issued in May 2016, NC’s bathroom bill was well before that

 

[hog88]

Still waiting on that link, source, etc. to back up the idea that the wave of anti-trans bills was actually not a “push” while the zero pro-trans bills is “pushing things too far” and forcing people to pass anti-trans laws

Show me yours and I'll show you mine.

 

[LouderVol]

But the groundswell push is being used to justify the wave of anti-trans laws and so I keep asking for evidence of this “groundswell push that went too far,” since everything rests on that, and am not seeing any

seems a bit unreasonable to me.

the simple, not specific, answer to when and where the groundswell was would be whenever and wherever there was a bill to ban it.

a bill is a big thing. something that can directly be pointed to, and dated. groundswell by its very definition is the opposite of those things. also very hard to quantify. plenty of the anti-trans bills were DOA, with really only the authors supporting them. would we consider that a start?

as for actual dates, someone pointed to something in 2016 by Obama, which would have predated any type of Trumpian/hate change that drove people to want to push out the trans people first.

 

[MemphisVol77]

That was issued in May 2016, NC’s bathroom bill was well before that

Fair enough, I'll admit I'm jumping in late or in the middle with that.

I still think the wording of Obama's guidance to schools, requiring schools to allow students access to bathrooms and locker rooms of their choice, played a pivotal role pushing this into the forefront of conservative discourse.

 

[LouderVol]

That was issued in May 2016, NC’s bathroom bill was well before that

what do you mean by well before that?

NPR says that NC's bill was in 2016 too. looking it up it was Feb 2016.

^ACTUALLY THE ABOVE IS WRONG.

Charlotte passed an ordinance in Februrary 2016 allowing trans to use whatever public bathroom they wanted.
then in March 2016 House Bill 2 was passed by North Carolina which repealed that ordinance.

so in this case it was a "pro" trans act first.

 

[C-south]

It's the same old story, really. Culture wars sell. Trans people are by far the biggest victims in all of this. Used by one side as political tokens and recipients of the punching down by the other side. Minority groups are always easy targets for this sh*t, and trans is today's minority to abuse.

Really? What about the girls/women that have to deal with this absurdity? You’re being the very thing you’re crying about.

 

[NashVol11]

seems a bit unreasonable to me.

the simple, not specific, answer to when and where the groundswell was would be whenever and wherever there was a bill to ban it.

a bill is a big thing. something that can directly be pointed to, and dated. groundswell by its very definition is the opposite of those things. also very hard to quantify. plenty of the anti-trans bills were DOA, with really only the authors supporting them. would we consider that a start?

as for actual dates, someone pointed to something in 2016 by Obama, which would have predated any type of Trumpian/hate change that drove people to want to push out the trans people first.

All evidence we have suggests that the current politicization of trans people began with people fearmongering about trans people in bathrooms and passing laws to prevent them from entering. If someone is going to shift blame and say that actually, trans people started it by “shoving it down our throat too much,” it’s not unreasonable at all to ask them to back up their statements with a single shred of anything beyond “this is true because I said so”

 

[hog88]

what do you mean by well before that?

NPR says that NC's bill was in 2016 too. looking it up it was Feb 2016

NC's bathroom bill was in response to Charlotte passing an ordinance allowing trans people to use the bathroom/lockerooom of their choice.