The Problem

[surrealvol]

I would like to inject my personal theory here as to the basic problem with our offense.

If you look at the top-ranked teams today, who is ALWAYS one of, if not the, key person? Uh................the QUARTERBACK. Just pick a team that is up top and 95 percent of the football fans around can name the QB.

If you are going to win today, your QB must be a rather prolific passer, or an elusive runner, or both.

Now, I totally admire Rick because of his desire, his work ethic, and his leadership. But, realistically, he is neither a prolific passer nor an elusive runner. The opponent's defense doesn't have to worry about him running so it is rather easy to concentrate on our running back(s).

And the opponent's defensive backs don't have to worry that much about the semi-long ball or the long ball. So they can play closer to the line of scrimmage, which helps them assist with the run if Riggs gets outside.

I am definitely not a Randy Sanders fan (Check my earlier posts in regard to that), but we are rather limited at the most important position on the offense.

JUST IMAGINE what we would be like if we had a Tee Martin-like player at QB right now. Look at the QBs we have faced in every game we have played this year. Every one of them has given us fits. It is a position on our team right now that the defense doesn't have to worry that much about and therefore they can take chances against our backs and receivers that they couldn't take if Rick were more of an offensive threat.

I'm not downing Rick. I'm just saying that he is limited in terms of what he can do, and that hurts our versatility. Which hurts our offensive production.

Just my two cents worth. Only one of our rather major problems at this point. :twocents:

 

[Rabidvol]

If a QB cannot pass (except for 3-5 yards on average) and cannot run, then my guess is that the team is in deep trouble! Look at USC, Texas and Virginia Tech....can we all name their QB's? I think so! Do they run and pass AND are they smart enough to run their offense? Yep! I keep remembering the beginning of last year's season with the two, young hot shot QB's...what a major disappointment!

 

[milohimself]

It's a two way street. We need an offense that will give our QB support and we need a QB to direct the whole thing.

 

[HilltopperVol]

The issue is we have one QB with average talent but exceptional Leadership. The other has exceptional talent but has shown a lack of leadership. It is a shame that we can't switch their brains.

 

[milohimself]

Well, I'd say at this point in his carreer Rick is at about the top of his game. Stick with him to see if we can run the table, but if lose one more, I just say play Ainge so he gets the experience. Honestly, three losses out of this year's team is completely unnacceptable. We are among the top 3 teams in the country in terms of talent, and we've already lost the division by our 3rd conference game.

 

[craigb_702]

Originally posted by surrealvol@Oct 8, 2005 11:31 PM
I would like to inject my personal theory here as to the basic problem with our offense.

If you look at the top-ranked teams today, who is ALWAYS one of, if not the, key person?  Uh................the QUARTERBACK.  Just pick a team that is up top and 95 percent of the football fans around can name the QB.

If you are going to win today, your QB must be a rather prolific passer, or an elusive runner, or both.

Now, I totally admire Rick because of his desire, his work ethic, and his leadership.  But, realistically, he is neither a prolific passer nor an elusive runner.  The opponent's defense doesn't have to worry about him running so it is rather easy to concentrate on our running back(s).

And the opponent's defensive backs don't have to worry that much about the semi-long ball or the long ball.  So they can play closer to the line of scrimmage, which helps them assist with the run if Riggs gets outside.

I am definitely not a Randy Sanders fan (Check my earlier posts in regard to that), but we are rather limited at the most important position on the offense.

JUST IMAGINE what we would be like if we had a Tee Martin-like player at QB right now.  Look at the QBs we have faced in every game we have played this year.  Every one of them has given us fits.  It is a position on our team right now that the defense doesn't have to worry that much about and therefore they can take chances against our backs and receivers that they couldn't take if Rick were more of an offensive threat.

I'm not downing Rick.  I'm just saying that he is limited in terms of what he can do, and that hurts our versatility.  Which hurts our offensive production.

Just my two cents worth.  Only one of our rather major problems at this point.  :twocents:

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i think UT is looking for the next peyton manning, when in actuality those type of players come along rarely in todays game. the current offensive scheme can and has worked, but the only prob is...when you have a mobile qb you have to fit the system to him if you wanna be successful. i think rick is fine- look at jason white, he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn but he got it done. his coaches UTILIZED his strengths and didn't ask him to play outside of himself. I truly believe if RS had been the the OC forTee Martin's career ...UT wouldn't have won a NC in 98. If your gonna be a running team...maybe, just maybe you might want to get a playmaker who can run and pass for times like these,

 

[Freak]

I was just thinking today about how we won a NC with a mobile QB and haven't had one since.

 

[milohimself]

Go ahead... Somebody say it. We need Brent Schaeffer back

 

[vols2345]

Originally posted by vol_freak@Oct 9, 2005 1:23 AM
I was just thinking today about how we won a NC with a mobile QB and haven't had one since.

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well the one we did have fulmer kicked him off the team.

 

[IBleedOrange24/7]

Originally posted by vols2345@Oct 9, 2005 2:24 AM
well the one we did have fulmer kicked him off the team.

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Thats part of being a student/athlete, Nothing personal 2345. We didnt see, well, i didnt see anything special about BS's arm. That very well could have been developed as he matured? (matured key word)

Not many people on here or else , think very highly of an enrolled/athlete. It has been very clear why BS chose to transfer, instead of being dismissed from the team.

 

[tvolsfan]

Originally posted by milohimself@Oct 9, 2005 2:24 AM
Go ahead... Somebody say it. We need Brent Schaeffer back

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i honestly didnt think the was all that good. he never seemed to do anything.
look at his numbers they werent super impressive.

btw lets look at average score in losses from 1999 on.

we average 15 pts a game in a loss. we wouldhave a much better record w/ a good oc. we couldnt put up pts.

lets look at 1993 to 1998
23 pts in a loss
those pts would be usefull. our team used to score a lot and now we cant score at all.

 

[USAF_Vol]

Originally posted by milohimself@Oct 9, 2005 1:24 AM
Go ahead... Somebody say it. We need Brent Schaeffer back

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Reading this thread I was thinking that. Surreal has a very good point. Since Tee Martin, what have we had? All the top teams today, their QB's are consistantly in the Heisman race. Our offensive threat starts with the QB. And that doesn't seem to threaten anyone right about now.

Not downing Rick, what a standup guy he is. But that is where it all goes wrong.

I do wish we had Brent. I liked him from the beginning.

 

[obxvol]

With the top five recruiting classes that we have year in and year out, you would think that perhaps we could get a quarterback that had half a brain and athletic talent. Tennessee is a good place to play football. Lots of support, facilities and a lot of tradition. We have our moments (this season) but why can't we get a dynamic quarterback to play for us?

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by obxvol@Oct 9, 2005 8:36 AM
With the top five recruiting classes that we have year in and year out, you would think that perhaps we could get a quarterback that had half a brain and athletic talent. Tennessee is a good place to play football. Lots of support, facilities and a lot of tradition. We have our moments (this season) but why can't we get a dynamic quarterback to play for us?

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I think we have one. He is just not coached well. (not talking about Clausen)

 

[T_man_J]

Originally posted by surrealvol@Oct 8, 2005 11:31 PM
I would like to inject my personal theory here as to the basic problem with our offense.

If you look at the top-ranked teams today, who is ALWAYS one of, if not the, key person?  Uh................the QUARTERBACK.  Just pick a team that is up top and 95 percent of the football fans around can name the QB.

If you are going to win today, your QB must be a rather prolific passer, or an elusive runner, or both.

Now, I totally admire Rick because of his desire, his work ethic, and his leadership.  But, realistically, he is neither a prolific passer nor an elusive runner.  The opponent's defense doesn't have to worry about him running so it is rather easy to concentrate on our running back(s).

And the opponent's defensive backs don't have to worry that much about the semi-long ball or the long ball.  So they can play closer to the line of scrimmage, which helps them assist with the run if Riggs gets outside.

I am definitely not a Randy Sanders fan (Check my earlier posts in regard to that), but we are rather limited at the most important position on the offense.

JUST IMAGINE what we would be like if we had a Tee Martin-like player at QB right now.  Look at the QBs we have faced in every game we have played this year.  Every one of them has given us fits.  It is a position on our team right now that the defense doesn't have to worry that much about and therefore they can take chances against our backs and receivers that they couldn't take if Rick were more of an offensive threat.

I'm not downing Rick.  I'm just saying that he is limited in terms of what he can do, and that hurts our versatility.  Which hurts our offensive production.

Just my two cents worth.  Only one of our rather major problems at this point.  :twocents:

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I understand your thought, but I assert that our QB problem is a symptom of a deeper, more serious issue that cannot be resolved by a more proficient QB. We had the best QB (Peyton), but we did not win the NC. We had a good QB (Tee), and we won the NC. How do you reconcile this conflict? The difference is LEADERSHIP!
During Peyton’s period, the team was divided. Some players believed in Peyton; some players believed in Tee. We won simply because of Peyton’s talent. The players that did not fully support Peyton still got plenty of playing time.
During Tee’s season, we had a team that was fully focused on the objective. Tee lead the offense and Al Wilson lead the defense.
The problem is that players should not be the main source of leadership; that is the head coach’s job. We came into Fall camp with two QBs. Instead of improving play at all positions, our team was focused on the QB competition. We are still trying to play with a divided team.
With all due respect to PH, we need a head coach.

 

[VolsWinRLose]

For heaven's sake, y'all!! Doesn't anybody remember the trainload of LUCK we had to have to win the NC???

Tee Martin WAS mobile, and I miss that; however, the sun doesn't rise and set on the QB.

As to BS, yes, I thought he was shafted by the coaching staff on more than one occasion, but...wasn't there a issue that led to his dismissal? Hey, if you have to have chemical support to get through life, you could be Joe Montana, and I'd throw you back.

 

[indyvol15]

From what I understand, Crompton is very Heath Shuler like. That remains to be seen,but if you dont have an OC that can utilize that talent then you are wasting the talent....

 

[vols2345]

Originally posted by tvolsfan@Oct 9, 2005 6:17 AM
i honestly didnt think the was all that good. he never seemed to do anything.
look at his numbers they werent super impressive.

btw lets look at average score in losses from 1999 on.

we average 15 pts a game in a loss. we wouldhave a much better record w/ a good oc. we couldnt put up pts.

lets look at 1993 to 1998
23 pts in a loss
those pts would be usefull. our team used to score a lot and now we cant score at all.

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numbers can't be that impressive when you never get to play. When he came in the game he did pretty well but he was never given a fare shot. He could juke anyone out of there shoes and he could go vertical like he did aginst South Carolina. I bet he would be starting right now if he didnt leave.

 

[kiddiedoc]

I have avoided the whole "QB Controversy" thing as best I could, but, Surreal, I agree with you 100%. I have never thought that Rick was the guy that could get us to the "promised land." He wasn't good enough at LSU, and he wasn't good enough last year to beat out EITHER of two true freshmen.

Look, props to him for stepping up and into the leadership role. But, look, there are a lot of likeable guys with a good head on their shoulders that will never be superstar quarterbacks. You have to have an arm and a body. It's obvious right now to me that his lack of such is severely hampering our options on offense. You can't run with 8 in the box, and receivers can't make plays after the catch if the DB's know the ball is going underneath every time. And, for those who think he can't make mistakes -- he should have been able to hit the seam route in the endzone with his eyes closed. Then, he followed that with a BADLY underthrown ball for an INT. Ask around: when going to the corner, you put the ball where either the receiver can get to it, or nobody can.

I feel bad for getting into this thing (because I have tried to stay clean), but it's time to say it: Put in Erik and get him ready for next year.

 

[OWB]

Originally posted by kiddiedoc@Oct 9, 2005 1:19 PM
I have avoided the whole "QB Controversy" thing as best I could, but, Surreal, I agree with you 100%.  I have never thought that Rick was the guy that could get us to the "promised land."  He wasn't good enough at LSU, and he wasn't good enough last year to beat out EITHER of two true freshmen.

Look, props to him for stepping up and into the leadership role.  But, look, there are a lot of likeable guys with a good head on their shoulders that will never be superstar quarterbacks.  You have to have an arm and a body.  It's obvious right now to me that his lack of such is severely hampering our options on offense.  You can't run with 8 in the box, and receivers can't make plays after the catch if the DB's know the ball is going underneath every time.  And, for those who think he can't make mistakes -- he should have been able to hit the seam route in the endzone with his eyes closed.  Then, he followed that with a BADLY underthrown ball for an INT.  Ask around:  when going to the corner, you put the ball where either the receiver can get to it, or nobody can.

I feel bad for getting into this thing (because I have tried to stay clean), but it's time to say it:  Put in Erik and get him ready for next year.

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Well said and I agree completely. Right now it seems like neither is going to really get it done, so why not play the one who can threaten deep and stretch the field along with the defense out?

 

[WA_Vol]

Originally posted by kiddiedoc@Oct 9, 2005 1:19 PM
I have avoided the whole "QB Controversy" thing as best I could, but, Surreal, I agree with you 100%.  I have never thought that Rick was the guy that could get us to the "promised land."  He wasn't good enough at LSU, and he wasn't good enough last year to beat out EITHER of two true freshmen.

Look, props to him for stepping up and into the leadership role.  But, look, there are a lot of likeable guys with a good head on their shoulders that will never be superstar quarterbacks.  You have to have an arm and a body.  It's obvious right now to me that his lack of such is severely hampering our options on offense.  You can't run with 8 in the box, and receivers can't make plays after the catch if the DB's know the ball is going underneath every time.  And, for those who think he can't make mistakes -- he should have been able to hit the seam route in the endzone with his eyes closed.  Then, he followed that with a BADLY underthrown ball for an INT.  Ask around:  when going to the corner, you put the ball where either the receiver can get to it, or nobody can.

I feel bad for getting into this thing (because I have tried to stay clean), but it's time to say it:  Put in Erik and get him ready for next year.

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i was thinking the same thing last night.
this season is a bust, unless anyone thinks finishing 3rd in the sec east is a moral victory??
there's no point in playing clausen, we're playing for next year, like we seem to be doing a lot........

 

[GAVol]

Originally posted by kiddiedoc@Oct 9, 2005 1:19 PM
I have avoided the whole "QB Controversy" thing as best I could, but, Surreal, I agree with you 100%.  I have never thought that Rick was the guy that could get us to the "promised land."  He wasn't good enough at LSU, and he wasn't good enough last year to beat out EITHER of two true freshmen.

Look, props to him for stepping up and into the leadership role.  But, look, there are a lot of likeable guys with a good head on their shoulders that will never be superstar quarterbacks.  You have to have an arm and a body.  It's obvious right now to me that his lack of such is severely hampering our options on offense.  You can't run with 8 in the box, and receivers can't make plays after the catch if the DB's know the ball is going underneath every time.  And, for those who think he can't make mistakes -- he should have been able to hit the seam route in the endzone with his eyes closed.  Then, he followed that with a BADLY underthrown ball for an INT.  Ask around:  when going to the corner, you put the ball where either the receiver can get to it, or nobody can.

I feel bad for getting into this thing (because I have tried to stay clean), but it's time to say it:  Put in Erik and get him ready for next year.

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I think I'm right there with you. Bad throws will happen to anybody, but we just have no deep threat whatsoever and that is leading to defenses teeing off on Riggs. If you'll notice, when Gerald does break a decent run, it usually comes when he has to bounce it outside after being bottled up or stutter steps to make a guy miss in the backfield. Everything he gets, he's getting on his own.

 

[Lexvol]

Yep, Clausen simply cannot make teams consitently pay for loading the box.

 

[obxvol]

I have been reading and hearing about Rick's weak arm for a long time now and I agree, he has one. But I don't understand how you get to this level with a weak arm? Even though the year isn't going well, currently we are a top twenty team in the toughest conference out there. How does a quarterback become a starter with the assets or lack of assets that Rick has? Anyone else think that is strange?

 

[surrealvol]

Default, I guess.