The Problem with the News is us the consumer

#26
#26
Persian Vol said:
I do agree that too much of TV is opinionated currently. It seems that most stations seem to talk about 1-3 topics a day and have analyst and commentators discuss it to the death, rather than just talking about everything. There is plenty of news that happens daily, but the stations just stick to the most popular one and beat it to death because of ratings.

Even in ESPN, they talk about the same thing over and over and over again. It seems like there cannot be a day that goes by without debating whether Lebron is the GOAT or whether Brady eclipsed Montana as the GOAT. Who gives a ****.
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More so, they pick which ones will be popular by talking about them, and repress what won't be known about by not talking about it. Thus, the narrative creation.

I am a firm believer that a person gets smarter just by becoming a cable-cutter. lol
 
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#27
#27
Persian Vol said:
Nonbiased, honest, and professional news now takes a back seat to ratings and money. People are more interested in getting news out first rather than making sure it is true.

The majority of consumers just want to sit down and be told stuff that they agree with, which is why we have such polarization among news networks.

I believe Shepard Smith criticized Trump yesterday in regards to his press conference, and Fox News viewers on Twitter in masses were begging that he got fired. It doesn't matter what is spewed to us anymore because we will only look for the news that fits our beliefs.

For example, it seems that people would more willingly believe a new(false) study that proteins make you fat more than that their political leader is an idiot.
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confirmation bias. its much easier to roll with what one has always "known" than to challenge or confirm it.
 
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#28
#28
Politics has consumed the media. This can be traced back to Fox news pushing their conservative anti-democrat agenda and other news agencies had to follow suit to counter this misinformation. Lies to the left, lies to the right and the truth is concealed. People cannot rely on today's news for knowledge, they have to find it for themselves. That is not an easy task in today's disinformation age. Comforting lies are easier for most people than searching for truth.
 
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#29
#29
Orange_Crush said:
So, the news should report facts and leave the "descriptions" and opinions to the occasional editorial page. You just described a huge part of the problem.
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Yes journalists should report facts yet dig for the truth. But you and I can look at the same thing and perceive and describe it differently. It doesn't mean either of us is lying.
 
#30
#30
Mick said:
Politics has consumed the media. This can be traced back to Fox news pushing their conservative anti-democrat agenda and other news agencies had to follow suit to counter this misinformation. Lies to the left, lies to the right and the truth is concealed. People cannot rely on today's news for knowledge, they have to find it for themselves. That is not an easy task in today's disinformation age. Comforting lies are easier for most people than searching for truth.
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Ah, yes, Fox News caused all of this. There was never an environment which fostered Fox News's ascension.
 
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#32
#32
PKT_VOL said:
Ah, yes, Fox News caused all of this. There was never an environment which fostered Fox News's ascension.
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My thoughts exactly.

Fox news did not spring into existence from nowhere. It was a response to the existing leftist media outlets.
 
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#33
#33
Orange_Crush said:
If the problem with the news is us, the consumer, then the problem with the news is systemic, as ratings shouldn't dictate journalistic integrity.

The problems with journalism started when corporations gobbled up all of the news outlets. Now, they're just mouthpieces for corporate desires and interests.
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It's not a problem for the news. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

The problem is that people who are generally unhappy with the news continue to consume it. Or, those who merely dislike a swath of media outlets but have their own favorite polarized outlet, help to continue the polarization by supporting their own favored polarized news source.

The consumer will always get what it wants. It's simple free market economics. As much as people ***** they still watch and consume.

Journalism only has a problem when it covets respect. If they would drop that desire and be happy with the money they are making, they wouldn't have an issue. Unfortunately, they want it all; wealth, power, and respect. The current current system won't allow for all three.
 
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#35
#35
PKT_VOL said:
It's not a problem for the news. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

The problem is that people who are generally unhappy with the news continue to consume it. Or, those who merely dislike a swath of media outlets but have their own favorite polarized outlet, help to continue the polarization by supporting their own favored polarized news source.

The consumer will always get what it wants. It's simple free market economics. As much as people ***** they still watch and consume.

Journalism only has a problem when it covets respect. If they would drop that desire and be happy with the money they are making, they wouldn't have an issue. Unfortunately, they want it all; wealth, power, and respect. The current current system won't allow for all three.
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You know... At first, I was positioned to argue with you slightly, just from the perspective that as the respect wanes, their profits will as well, just by the nature of news as a business. But I can't. You are coorect. There are so many out there who want news outlets to reinforce what they already think, or filter facts through their own worldview, that both sides of the outlets will continue getting respect from some % of the population.

I'm a bit of a pragmatic idealist when it comes to journalism. Journalism should have no "sides" but the truth. That will never be the case.

And I can't be happier as a cable-cutter.
 
#37
#37
Orange_Crush said:
My thoughts exactly.

Fox news did not spring into existence from nowhere. It was a response to the existing leftist media outlets.
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I will accept that fox news was spawned by the need for alternative information and that only enhances my previous statement.
 
#38
#38
Mick said:
Politics has consumed the media. This can be traced back to Fox news pushing their conservative anti-democrat agenda and other news agencies had to follow suit to counter this misinformation. Lies to the left, lies to the right and the truth is concealed. People cannot rely on today's news for knowledge, they have to find it for themselves. That is not an easy task in today's disinformation age. Comforting lies are easier for most people than searching for truth.
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PKT_VOL said:
Ah, yes, Fox News caused all of this. There was never an environment which fostered Fox News's ascension.
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Orange_Crush said:
My thoughts exactly.

Fox news did not spring into existence from nowhere. It was a response to the existing leftist media outlets.
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Mick said:
I will accept that fox news was spawned by the need for alternative information and that only enhances my previous statement.
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Actually, it contradicts your previous statement. You laid the blame on Fox's/conservatism's doorstep, and inferred that all the left's lies were responses to the right's lies.

But I agree that they're all lying liars who can't be trusted. I'll be hoping you point this out as well when you get into ya'll's "fake news", "Only Fox/CNN/MSNBC/etc are trustworthy sources" banter in the near future.
 
#39
#39
Orange_Crush said:
Actually, it contradicts your previous statement. You laid the blame on Fox's/conservatism's doorstep, and inferred that all the left's lies were responses to the right's lies.

But I agree that they're all lying liars who can't be trusted. I'll be hoping you point this out as well when you get into ya'll's "fake news", "Only Fox/CNN/MSNBC/etc are trustworthy sources" banter in the near future.
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I can slant it for you then: Politics has consumed the media. This can be traced back to "the Liberal medias brainwashing of the american people which gave rise to Fox news "fair and balanced approach" and other news agencies had to follow suit to counter this. Lies to the left, lies to the right and the truth is concealed. People cannot rely on today's news for knowledge, they have to find it for themselves. That is not an easy task in today's disinformation age. Comforting lies are easier for most people than searching for truth.

You are saying all media was leftist before fox and fox is the other perspective. So yes I can point to fox as creating a divide in the traditional leftist media.
 
#40
#40
Mick said:
I can slant it for you then: Politics has consumed the media. This can be traced back to "the Liberal medias brainwashing of the american people which gave rise to Fox news "fair and balanced approach" and other news agencies had to follow suit to counter this. Lies to the left, lies to the right and the truth is concealed. People cannot rely on today's news for knowledge, they have to find it for themselves. That is not an easy task in today's disinformation age. Comforting lies are easier for most people than searching for truth.

You are saying all media was leftist before fox and fox is the other perspective. So yes I can point to fox as creating a divide in the traditional leftist media.
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Be specific, please. Your initial post on the subject read as if Fox started the partisan lies and everyone had to respond in kind.

If that is your argument, I disagree. If that is not your argument, we will probably have little to disagree about.
 
#41
#41
PKT_VOL said:
It's not a problem for the news. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

The problem is that people who are generally unhappy with the news continue to consume it. Or, those who merely dislike a swath of media outlets but have their own favorite polarized outlet, help to continue the polarization by supporting their own favored polarized news source.

The consumer will always get what it wants. It's simple free market economics. As much as people ***** they still watch and consume.

Journalism only has a problem when it covets respect. If they would drop that desire and be happy with the money they are making, they wouldn't have an issue. Unfortunately, they want it all; wealth, power, and respect. The current current system won't allow for all three.
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Wow! I 100% agree. I would add that I think they seemingly have a desire to become a branch of government.
 
#43
#43
#44
#44
Orange_Crush said:
Be specific, please. Your initial post on the subject read as if Fox started the partisan lies and everyone had to respond in kind.

If that is your argument, I disagree. If that is not your argument, we will probably have little to disagree about.
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If you want to say the leftist medias lies brought about the rise of fox to counter that is fine, but the way I remember it was news was news and didn't change much from station to station pre fox. Your chicken or egg argument is pointless since the media and government have been lying since the beginning. And yes Fox has never been news but an anti-democrat media outlet.
 
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#45
#45
Is there even a market for true "news"?

There's not a true prime time news program on TV news. It's almost all political talk/opinion.
 
#46
#46
Mick said:
If you want to say the leftist medias lies brought about the rise of fox to counter that is fine, but the way I remember it was news was news and didn't change much from station to station pre fox. Your chicken or egg argument is pointless since the media and government have been lying since the beginning. And yes Fox has never been news but an anti-democrat media outlet.
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I'm just trying to figure out what you were trying to say, because quite frankly, you've been all over the place on this.

If we both agree that the media has been lying and slanting for years before Fox ever showed up, we are in agreement.

if you are claiming, as your original post seemed to infer, that Fox started the lying race, then I can write you off as one of the many party hacks that are easy to spot because they just vomit stuff into the forum without caring if it's even believable.
 
#47
#47
Orange_Crush said:
I'm just trying to figure out what you were trying to say, because quite frankly, you've been all over the place on this.

If we both agree that the media has been lying and slanting for years before Fox ever showed up, we are in agreement.

if you are claiming, as your original post seemed to infer, that Fox started the lying race, then I can write you off as one of the many party hacks that are easy to spot because they just vomit stuff into the forum without caring if it's even believable.
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I believe we are in agreement if you agree that fox is anti-democrat or pro-conservative.

edit: It's amazing that 2 people can come to the same conclusions coming from different perspectives.
 
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#48
#48
volfanhill said:
We don't demand better. We eat from the silly trough that is Fox or CNN and claim it as fact. We have to demand better and not dismiss other news sources off the bat bc of who they are.
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I actually pay more attention to the international news outlets than our own.
 
#49
#49
volfanhill said:
We don't demand better. We eat from the silly trough that is Fox or CNN and claim it as fact. We have to demand better and not dismiss other news sources off the bat bc of who they are.
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I agree in the sense that people do not demand deeper factual discussion or analysis and, as a consequence, the media end up putting often times complex matters into bite sized nuggets. The consequence is that the news is too packaged, and therefore too easily characterized by the packager, i.e. the media outlet.

Sometimes in the airport I'll pick up a copy of something like, say, The Economist. Now, its fairly tiny print. Not big on pictures. And if you are going to read an entire story, its going to take you awhile. Compare that to Newsweek or something else like that, and its night and day.

I would make the observation, however, that the real loser if people read more deeply into facts would definitely be the conservative media. Their stalwart, Fox, is the epitome of glossing things over. They ask rhetorical questions, suggesting facts, worse than anyone. The constant banners, like "What can be done about national security threatening White House leaks?" to suggest the real answer they want -- that the leaks are dangerous.

Fox built itself on gitchy graphics, eye-candy presenters of shallow analysis and facts, and commentary pretending to be news.

The alt right is worse, because they are built simply on actually completely fabricated facts. Their sin is far worse than a question of packaging. Theirs is in flat out making shht up.

In my opinion, Trump's tirade about this yesterday was misplaced. He should not call the mainstream media "fake news." Its going to antagonize them, for one thing. And for another its not really correct.

He should be complaining that they do not tell the whole story. That they are omitting facts which are important to the issue they are covering. I think most people would relate to that at some level. Heck, even I would agree with him that the MSM should be more even keeled in their reporting, and what facts they put into a story.

But calling the MSM out as basically liars? Not accurate. Not necessary. And not smart politically, imo.
 
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#50
#50
Mick said:
I believe we are in agreement if you agree that fox is anti-democrat or pro-conservative.

edit: It's amazing that 2 people can come to the same conclusions coming from different perspectives.
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:) Not amazing at all, kimosabe.
 
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