The Official Tennessee @ Vanderbilt Game Thread, 7:00pm ET, SEC Network

#201
#201
e-VOL-ution2013 said:
Take Josh Richardson away from Tyndall and his record is the same or worse than Barnes this year.

Conversely, give Rick Barnes Josh Richardson and we are on the bubble. IMO
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Bubble team? That's a little optimistic. This team would be more of a solid NIT team with Richardson. If we were a bubble team, we'd be having to win some games in the SEC tourney to get in. Which, as we should all know, usually means no bueno.
 
#202
#202
OrangeBalls said:
Bubble team? That's a little optimistic. This team would be more of a solid NIT team with Richardson. If we were a bubble team, we'd be having to win some games in the SEC tourney to get in. Which, as we should all know, usually means no bueno.
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True, but if we were able to beat Kentucky with this team then I honestly feel a player like JR would pull the effort to that level on a consistent basis. To me I think we are at least in the bubble conversation and at the worse the NIT discussion
 
#203
#203
e-VOL-ution2013 said:
What good does being on the bubble do if you are dealing with probation and post season bans possibly?

Also, I am sorry but that isn't an impressive lineup either.
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I was a Tyndall fan on the court

I hate the person he was off

My post was written as of he wasn't a cheater

He is a very good evaluator of talent and very good on game day IMO


The roster would have been plenty good enough for us to be much better and the zone would be a very tough out in the tourney especially the second game of the weekend
 
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#204
#204
e-VOL-ution2013 said:
True, but if we were able to beat Kentucky with this team then I honestly feel a player like JR would pull the effort to that level on a consistent basis. To me I think we are at least in the bubble conversation and at the worse the NIT discussion
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Yes, but even woeful Auburn beat Ky. Ky is not that great this year. I don't think there is really any SEC team that is going to scare anyone in the NCAA's. I think Vandy actually has the best talent and the most balanced team, but they have been Jekyll/Hyde all season long. A & M is another team to watch. They grind it out and have a lot of experience.
 
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#205
#205
calban said:
That's more of a personality clash. It happens on MBs.

Hard to overlook the suggested double standard.

But my question is; Is it the NCAA or our lack of a supportive admin. that is the root of our destruction?

And it applies to all 3 of our prior coaches.
Brown f### up and gets an extension. Bruce gets canned. Martin feels unwanted by his admin and Hart reacts prematurely and grabs papaw.
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Hart had no choice in the Tyndall matter because of the perception following the Bruce Pearl scandal. We had very little invested in Tyndall, and if there was even a chance he'd be disciplined by the NCAA, the only logical choice was to fire him. It's not like we were pushing someone of the ilk of Coach K out the door with little proof. Also, it was proven tht he lied on at least one occasion to both Hart and the NCAA. Lying to your boss and governing authority generally gets you fired in the real world. Only makes sense that it happens in the sports world too, especially when we had so little invested.

Now, I had then, and still have serious reservations as to whether Barnes was the answer in response to firing Tyndall. If we had hired a sure-fire up-and-comer who had on us on the verge of the tournament in year 1 and some stud top-100 prospects coming in, nobody cares about losing Tyndall right now.
 
#207
#207
cncchris33 said:
Hart had no choice in the Tyndall matter because of the perception following the Bruce Pearl scandal. We had very little invested in Tyndall, and if there was even a chance he'd be disciplined by the NCAA, the only logical choice was to fire him. It's not like we were pushing someone of the ilk of Coach K out the door with little proof. Also, it was proven tht he lied on at least one occasion to both Hart and the NCAA. Lying to your boss and governing authority generally gets you fired in the real world. Only makes sense that it happens in the sports world too, especially when we had so little invested.

Now, I had then, and still have serious reservations as to whether Barnes was the answer in response to firing Tyndall. If we had hired a sure-fire up-and-comer who had on us on the verge of the tournament in year 1 and some stud top-100 prospects coming in, nobody cares about losing Tyndall right now.
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The thing that gets me though, is that the UT job is a good one. You hear sportswriters talk about it all the time. The one thing they mention though that seems to turn people off is the admin at UT. Be it Hamilton, Hart or whoever is in charge, coaches haven't been running to take the UT job. More like walking on eggshells.

We have some of the best facilities in the country. We have some of the best fan support in the country (especially for a football school in a football conference). We pay well. What's the one thing that is holding us back? It's not hard to see what it is. And now with all the bad press about the lawsuit ongoing, it makes coaches pause. Coaches talk to each other. They know what's going on. I'd bet more than a few have discussed that UT's admin is the one thing holding us back.
 
#208
#208
People get all bent out of shape when their team loses. That would be every college fan in America except for 3 fan bases. In the pros, it would only be 1 fan base that would be happy after all is said and done.

Note: In my previous post, I should have included a disclaimer stating that what I posted would be under the assumption that Tyndall would have still been the HC.
 
#209
#209
OrangeBalls said:
The thing that gets me though, is that the UT job is a good one. You hear sportswriters talk about it all the time. The one thing they mention though that seems to turn people off is the admin at UT. Be it Hamilton, Hart or whoever is in charge, coaches haven't been running to take the UT job. More like walking on eggshells.

We have some of the best facilities in the country. We have some of the best fan support in the country (especially for a football school in a football conference). We pay well. What's the one thing that is holding us back? It's not hard to see what it is. And now with all the bad press about the lawsuit ongoing, it makes coaches pause. Coaches talk to each other. They know what's going on. I'd bet more than a few have discussed that UT's admin is the one thing holding us back.
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I don't disagree, except for maybe the notion that we pay well. We seem to be middle of the pack for proven coaches in the SEC, and we refuse to pay much at all for up-and-comers, which is why we'll likely never land the Shaka's, Brad Stevens', or Mike White's of the world.

I was just discussing the predicament Hart was in with Tyndall. He was left with no other choice IMO.

Otherwise, I agree we are a mess from the top down as far as administration is concerned.
 
#210
#210
cncchris33 said:
I don't disagree, except for maybe the notion that we pay well. We seem to be middle of the pack for proven coaches in the SEC, and we refuse to pay much at all for up-and-comers, which is why we'll likely never land the Shaka's, Brad Stevens', or Mike White's of the world.

I was just discussing the predicament Hart was in with Tyndall. He was left with no other choice IMO.

Otherwise, I agree we are a mess from the top down as far as administration is concerned.
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I think if a good coach showed interest in UT, they would open up the checkbook. However, we've been paying out coaching contracts for years that put us behind the 8 ball. Also, with the way Pearl left, with the way Cuonzo left, and with the way Tyndall left, it raises questions. They left/were fired for various reasons, but the UTAD and the UT admin has been a revolving door. Leadership there has flat out stunk since Joe Johnson retired. Things rot from the head down. We haven't had good leadership from the top down in forever.
 
#211
#211
OrangeBalls said:
I think if a good coach showed interest in UT, they would open up the checkbook. However, we've been paying out coaching contracts for years that put us behind the 8 ball. Also, with the way Pearl left, with the way Cuonzo left, and with the way Tyndall left, it raises questions. They left/were fired for various reasons, but the UTAD and the UT admin has been a revolving door. Leadership there has flat out stunk since Joe Johnson retired. Things rot from the head down. We haven't had good leadership from the top down in forever.
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Haven't been paying out basketball coach's contracts for years. Actually Cal paid TN a buyout that off set much of Pearl's unnecessary $1,000,000 parting gift. Dooley and Fulmer did rape the AD budget though.

No doubt that the UT admin has been a joke. Even Johnson was very much a political hack... just not on the same level as Lamar was.
 
#212
#212
cncchris33 said:
Hart had no choice in the Tyndall matter because of the perception following the Bruce Pearl scandal. We had very little invested in Tyndall, and if there was even a chance he'd be disciplined by the NCAA, the only logical choice was to fire him. It's not like we were pushing someone of the ilk of Coach K out the door with little proof. Also, it was proven tht he lied on at least one occasion to both Hart and the NCAA. Lying to your boss and governing authority generally gets you fired in the real world. Only makes sense that it happens in the sports world too, especially when we had so little invested.

Now, I had then, and still have serious reservations as to whether Barnes was the answer in response to firing Tyndall. If we had hired a sure-fire up-and-comer who had on us on the verge of the tournament in year 1 and some stud top-100 prospects coming in, nobody cares about losing Tyndall right now.
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Still the question, why does Brown cheat, then lie about it and get a slap on the wrist and promoted and our guys, get shown the door?
 
#213
#213
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Haven't been paying out basketball coach's contracts for years. Actually Cal paid TN a buyout that off set much of Pearl's unnecessary $1,000,000 parting gift. Dooley and Fulmer did rape the AD budget though.

No doubt that the UT admin has been a joke. Even Johnson was very much a political hack... just not on the same level as Lamar was.
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We've been paying football and hoops coaching contracts for years. They're all part of the same AD. Football pays the bills and we were in the red when Hart came along and practically nothing in reserve. We were basically bankrupt because of Hamilton and his idiotic contract negotiations with coaches. I'd like to see how much money we've paid to former coaches in the last 20 years in football, hoops and baseball. It won't be good.

Johnson might've been a political hack, but he knew how to run the AD and we made money.
 
#214
#214
OrangeBalls said:
We've been paying football and hoops coaching contracts for years. They're all part of the same AD. Football pays the bills and we were in the red when Hart came along and practically nothing in reserve. We were basically bankrupt because of Hamilton and his idiotic contract negotiations with coaches. I'd like to see how much money we've paid to former coaches in the last 20 years in football, hoops and baseball. It won't be good.

Johnson might've been a political hack, but he knew how to run the AD and we made money.
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Fulmer: $6,000,000
Dooley: $5,000,000 (thru 12/2016)
Jones and Dooley $3,000,000 +/-
Sunseri: $1-1,800,000
Delmonico: $430,000
Raleigh: $331,000
Buzz: $1,400,000
Jerry: $1,100,000
Pearl: $1,000,000
Tyndall: $0
Cuonzo: TN was paid the buyout
 
#215
#215
calban said:
Still the question, why does Brown cheat, then lie about it and get a slap on the wrist and promoted and our guys, get shown the door?
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1. Brown's misdeeds didn't fall in a five-year window of another basketball coach at SMU being busted by the NCAA.

2. Larry Brown has a much greater pedigree than Donnie Tyndall.

Does any of that make it fair or the right decision? Maybe not, but it is the reality of the situation. I think you could argue Hamilton reacted prematurely with Pearl, but that set the precedent, and <5 years later Hart had little choice but to exact a similar punishment for a coach with much less popularity, tenure, success, and chance of surviving an NCAA punishment.
 
#216
#216
OrangeBalls said:
I think if a good coach showed interest in UT, they would open up the checkbook. However, we've been paying out coaching contracts for years that put us behind the 8 ball. Also, with the way Pearl left, with the way Cuonzo left, and with the way Tyndall left, it raises questions. They left/were fired for various reasons, but the UTAD and the UT admin has been a revolving door. Leadership there has flat out stunk since Joe Johnson retired. Things rot from the head down. We haven't had good leadership from the top down in forever.
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We have never shown an interest in paying coaches to come here in my lifetime. A lot of that can be blamed on the buyouts as a convenient scapegoat by the administration, but the right coach pays for himself. I agree about the pitiful leadership, but Tennessee shops in the bargain bin for coaches and hopes to catch lightning in a bottle, almost across the board.
 
#217
#217
cncchris33 said:
We have never shown an interest in paying coaches to come here in my lifetime. A lot of that can be blamed on the buyouts as a convenient scapegoat by the administration, but the right coach pays for himself. I agree about the pitiful leadership, but Tennessee shops in the bargain bin for coaches and hopes to catch lightning in a bottle, almost across the board.
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Word is that TN opened up the checkbook to get Gruden but backed off when he also wanted absolute control of everything.
 
#221
#221
cncchris33 said:
Well, yeah. The only kind that matters.
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The women's game held paying top dollar for a men's coach. Many would have been offended if TN hired a top 10 men's coach for $3,000,000 and only paid Pat half of that. She would have had "feelings". A good reason to keep Holly... it will be difficult to hire a top 20 men's coach if a top 5 women's coach was only receiving half or less of the salary.
 
#223
#223
Thunder Good-Oil said:
The women's game held paying top dollar for a men's coach. Many would have been offended if TN hired a top 10 men's coach for $3,000,000 and only paid Pat half of that. She would have had "feelings". A good reason to keep Holly... it will be difficult to hire a top 20 men's coach if a top 5 women's coach was only receiving half or less of the salary.
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The women's team winning a national championship barely turns a profit while this sorry men's team we have now will still easily be in the black.

It might not be fair, but the economics just don't add up to make it fiscally responsible to overpay a women's coach (by market value standards) based on what you pay the men's coach.
 
#224
#224
cncchris33 said:
The women's team winning a national championship barely turns a profit while this sorry men's team we have now will still easily be in the black.

It might not be fair, but the economics just don't add up to make it fiscally responsible to overpay a women's coach (by market value standards) based on what you pay the men's coach.
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I'm not saying it does. I'm saying that the ensuing **** storm that would follow paying a top 20 salary to the men's side while paying Queen Pat less than half of that has held TN back from opening up the checkbook for a top level men's coach.
 
#225
#225
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Fulmer: $6,000,000
Dooley: $5,000,000 (thru 12/2016)
Jones and Dooley $3,000,000 +/-
Sunseri: $1-1,800,000
Delmonico: $430,000
Raleigh: $331,000
Buzz: $1,400,000
Jerry: $1,100,000
Pearl: $1,000,000
Tyndall: $0
Cuonzo: TN was paid the buyout
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That's depressing.

cncchris33 said:
We have never shown an interest in paying coaches to come here in my lifetime. A lot of that can be blamed on the buyouts as a convenient scapegoat by the administration, but the right coach pays for himself. I agree about the pitiful leadership, but Tennessee shops in the bargain bin for coaches and hopes to catch lightning in a bottle, almost across the board.
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The SEC didn't really start to make money until they got serious about it. It's always been a football league and will continue to be. As Thunder said, the combo of Pat's salary and paying buyouts probably has hurt us. I agree that we've gone the cheap route many times. It's almost like we're afraid to jump in with two feet because we're scared it'll backfire on us.

Thunder Good-Oil said:
I'm not saying it does. I'm saying that the ensuing **** storm that would follow paying a top 20 salary to the men's side while paying Queen Pat less than half of that has held TN back from opening up the checkbook for a top level men's coach.
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That shouldn't be an issue anymore. Pat is gone and Holly isn't too far behind. Pat's "I've got feelings about that" comment is the only thing that I didn't care for from her over the years. She built a brand. A brand I could care less about, but a lot of people there like women's basketball. I'd rather watch paint dry. However, the women's program barely broke even. It was one of the few that didn't always end up in the red like most women's programs though.
 
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