The Official Libertarian/Anarcho-Capitalist Thread

#130
#130
PKT_VOL said:
Right. I didn't think he was a complete anarchist though.
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I shy away from calling myself an anarchist because what most people think anarchists are, and what they actually are are quite different. I would be completely content with a libertarian government, and so I usually advocate that since it is more mainstream.
 
#131
#131
n_huffhines said:
I shy away from calling myself an anarchist because what most people think anarchists are, and what they actually are are quite different. I would be completely content with a libertarian government, and so I usually advocate that since it is more mainstream.
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Between a Libertarian government and anarchism...which side ya got?
 
#132
#132
It's really a push until I consider that a libertarian government will devolve into oligarchy over time. I assume people in an anarchist society will call for government any and every time something bad happens, so it would likely devolve too, but I'm not sure since anarchy hasn't had a real experiment. The closest thing was the old west (which was actually a lot safer and a lot more orderly than literature and Hollywood would lead you to believe).
 
#134
#134
n_huffhines said:
It's really a push until I consider that a libertarian government will devolve into oligarchy over time. I assume people in an anarchist society will call for government any and every time something bad happens, so it would likely devolve too, but I'm not sure since anarchy hasn't had a real experiment. The closest thing was the old west (which was actually a lot safer and a lot more orderly than literature and Hollywood would lead you to believe).
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I don't think there will ever be a time in future human history or past human history where a group of humans will not favor a government of some sort (however small).

I am personally in favor of an oligarchy headed by a philosophical leader/ruler/king. But then again, I am sure you can guess where my influences come from.
 
#135
#135
n_huffhines said:
It's really a push until I consider that a libertarian government will devolve into oligarchy over time. I assume people in an anarchist society will call for government any and every time something bad happens, so it would likely devolve too, but I'm not sure since anarchy hasn't had a real experiment. The closest thing was the old west (which was actually a lot safer and a lot more orderly than literature and Hollywood would lead you to believe).
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Never read Orwell's Homage to Catalonia or anything on the Ukrainian Free Territory?

Both were essentially anarchist societies on a large scale, if short-lived.
 
#136
#136
milohimself said:
Never read Orwell's Homage to Catalonia or anything on the Ukrainian Free Territory?

Both were essentially anarchist societies on a large scale, if short-lived.
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No, but I'm going to wikipedia the **** out of it right now.

Also, I might add, anarchy is a lot more feasible with technology. The fact that we have information at our fingertips is a complete game changer.
 
#138
#138
KingNick865 said:
I scored a 19 on that Libertarian test. Higher than I expected.
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If you only scored a 19, you might not be all that liberal. I like to say that libertarians take the good halves of each party's general rhetoric (economic liberty from GOP, civil liberty from Dems). A hardcore liberal is half libertarian.
 
#139
#139
n_huffhines said:
If you only scored a 19, you might not be all that liberal. I like to say that libertarians take the good halves of each party's general rhetoric (economic liberty from GOP, civil liberty from Dems). A hardcore liberal is half libertarian.
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I've always been more left than anything else, but I've always leaned more center-left than hard left in terms of my outlook for what the country should be.

I've always thought that the libertarians were a very interesting group. Not sure if I agree with eliminating half of the federal agencies, but the social policy that they encourage has always been something I've agreed with for the most part.
 
#140
#140
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#147
#147
Question for the well studied folk on here. Are fascism and communism all that different? And is socialism all that different? Are they not just forms of statism that are both similar when compared against capitalism? I get that theoretically, they claim to be the opposite. But in practice, it just doesn't seem true.

The way I see it, when in practice, they both require strong government control of the economy. And all practices have lead to dictatorships. Even if they try to act otherwise, both forms have led to a strong wealthy class exerting power over their people.
 
#148
#148
Weezy said:
Question for the well studied folk on here. Are fascism and communism all that different? And is socialism all that different? Are they not just forms of statism that are both similar when compared against capitalism? I get that theoretically, they claim to be the opposite. But in practice, it just doesn't seem true.

The way I see it, when in practice, they both require strong government control of the economy. And all practices have lead to dictatorships. Even if they try to act otherwise, both forms have led to a strong wealthy class exerting power over their people.
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I am not that well studied, but I would like to share my view. First, fascism is a very obtuse concept that is used in a variety of contexts. I have not ever really cared enough to find out what it truly is. I agree with you that communism and socialism might as well be the same thing when compared to true free market capitalism. Any system that is not capitalistic will always necessarily transition into tyranny. Without free market economics, government mandated altruism governs... tyranny ensues.
 
#149
#149
Weezy said:
Question for the well studied folk on here. Are fascism and communism all that different? And is socialism all that different? Are they not just forms of statism that are both similar when compared against capitalism? I get that theoretically, they claim to be the opposite. But in practice, it just doesn't seem true.


The way I see it, when in practice, they both require strong government control of the economy. And all practices have lead to dictatorships. Even if they try to act otherwise, both forms have led to a strong wealthy class exerting power over their people.
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Too me they are one and the same, just wrapped in different propaganda speak.

SamRebel35 said:
I am not that well studied, but I would like to share my view. First, fascism is a very obtuse concept that is used in a variety of contexts. I have not ever really cared enough to find out what it truly is. I agree with you that communism and socialism might as well be the same thing when compared to true free market capitalism. Any system that is not capitalistic will always necessarily transition into tyranny. Without free market economics, government mandated altruism governs... tyranny ensues.
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To extent I disagree, European democratic socialism has proven socialism and democracy can co-exist.
 
#150
#150
Weezy said:
Question for the well studied folk on here. Are fascism and communism all that different? And is socialism all that different? Are they not just forms of statism that are both similar when compared against capitalism? I get that theoretically, they claim to be the opposite. But in practice, it just doesn't seem true.

The way I see it, when in practice, they both require strong government control of the economy. And all practices have lead to dictatorships.
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Communism tends to be more transparent in their endeavors while fascism tends to use smoke and mirrors. As you stated, the relative outcome is roughly the same.

Weezy said:
Even if they try to act otherwise, both forms have led to a strong wealthy class exerting power over their people.
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Most all governments throughout time have been a plutonomy of some sort.
 
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