The obvious problem to me (semi long)

#26
#26
revjayp said:
Guys, stop looking at last night. If you don’t, you’re completely missing my point of emphasis. Scheming, outcoached, execution, whatever. Not my point.

We have weak minded and weak bodied players. I coach amateur golfers on the mental approach to the game. Golf is hard enough physically but if you go into each tournament expecting to lose or dreading certain shots, you will not compete at the highest level.

Our boys have a defeated mindset and feel like losers. They are getting beat physically and have been beat mentally for years. That has to change in the entire locker room. I believe that’s what Pruitt means when he says “play the right way”. He sees that there are guys who’ve been able to slide by without any accountability in the gym and on the field.
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For years? Really? 9 win season seem a hell of a lot further off in the future than they are in the past.
 
#28
#28
revjayp said:
I know I bang this drum often but being in the health and wellness industry, it’s what stands out the most to me.

We haven’t had a genuine S&C program in over 10 years and it shows every week. It’s been said that Jones didn’t make them work out at all and all he ever asked them to do was check in from time to time. Lunacy.

Sure, we’ve had some players who value and understand they must get stronger and faster but for the most part, it was never emphasized by Jones or Dooley. Coaches all over the country take 2-3* players and develop them schematically but also physically so that by the time they have been in their program 3-4 years they have excelled beyond their initial rating. The NFL is littered with these guys. They had the IQ but needed the development physically to make it. And they did. Not saying you don’t need high rated guys because you absolutely do. But as we’ve witness firsthand with BJ’s recruits, the ratings don’t always tell the whole story. (See Drew Richmond for an example.)

Our boys are slow and weak. Many opponents have called us soft. They’re right. Blame Pruitt, blame Helton even blame the players but if we’re looking at the Bama model, look at what they pay their S&C coach and and measure good teams against that. I promise you theirs a coloration between the 2.
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I think CJP has addressed this but like other things with this team, it won't be corrected in one off season training program. It will take a couple of years to get that rolling also.
 
#29
#29
Cartervol said:
Carolina ran for 224 yards. They pushed us around pretty much. That's with 4 senior dlinemen. Kentucky will go for 400. They might not attempt a pass all game.
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Snell will leave cleat marks all over us if something doesnt change in a hurry. He might go for 250 by himself.
 
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#30
#30
rusty11 said:
We lost because we played a team that shouldn't be on our schedule anymore last week. Still, we had somebody come back to beat us after leading the whole game. I would say that's an improvement, but until we wise up and make Arkansas or Ole Miss our permanent opponent from the West, we will continue to struggle after that 3rd Saturday in October. We'll all see that fact kill our chances of a Division title some day in the future. Freaken UF will go to Atlanta because we just had to have that 3rd Saturday ass whoopin that leads to another loss shortly thereafter.
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I would vote to do away with all permanent cross-division opponents. All cross-division opponents should be played on a rotating basis. It's the only reasonable way to put all teams on an equal footing within the conference.
 
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#31
#31
rusty11 said:
We lost because we played a team that shouldn't be on our schedule anymore last week. Still, we had somebody come back to beat us after leading the whole game. I would say that's an improvement, but until we wise up and make Arkansas or Ole Miss our permanent opponent from the West, we will continue to struggle after that 3rd Saturday in October. We'll all see that fact kill our chances of a Division title some day in the future. Freaken UF will go to Atlanta because we just had to have that 3rd Saturday ass whoopin that leads to another loss shortly thereafter.
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Good Lord, talk about a loser mentality. Florida will go to Atlanta because we can't beat them. Ever. It has nothing to do with Alabama.
 
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#32
#32
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
Good Lord, talk about a loser mentality. Florida will go to Atlanta because we can't beat them. Ever. It has nothing to do with Alabama.
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Nope, in my scenario, we do beat UF and UGA one year and are sitting pretty until we lose to Bama and then the physical beating and let down of losing our first game of the year will cost another game as well, Florida will beat UGA and they will go to face Bama in the SEC champ. game. That's my other point. Play them during the season and never get to Atlanta. Even if we did beat them, we'd probably face them in Atlanta and they'd of course kick our butts there. You want to play them twice? It's not a loser mentality, it's just the facts. We play too many conference games and we are the only team from the East that plays Bama every year. It doesn't make sense in the modern era. I'm completely confident that we would have won last night had we played anybody but Bama last week. Talk about luck of the draw. We just got slaughtered in every sense of the word and they had a week off last week. They only won by 3.
 
#33
#33
rusty11 said:
Nope, in my scenario, we do beat UF and UGA one year and are sitting pretty until we lose to Bama and then the physical beating and let down of losing our first game of the year will cost another game as well, Florida will beat UGA and they will go to face Bama in the SEC champ. game. That's my other point. Play them during the season and never get to Atlanta. Even if we did beat them, we'd probably face them in Atlanta and they'd of course kick our butts there. You want to play them twice? It's not a loser mentality, it's just the facts. We play too many conference games and we are the only team from the East that plays Bama every year. It doesn't make sense in the modern era. I'm completely confident that we would have won last night had we played anybody but Bama last week. Talk about luck of the draw. We just got slaughtered in every sense of the word and they had a week off last week. They only won by 3.
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That's exactly what it is
 
#34
#34
It has been said over and over by many different college coaches that it takes about two years to really see the results of a good S&C program. There were two different S&C coaches in Butch's last two seasons. We started seeing results under Lawson in 2015 and then Butch let him go. The S&C program plays a big part, especially with your linemen.
 
#35
#35
rusty11 said:
We lost because we played a team that shouldn't be on our schedule anymore last week. Still, we had somebody come back to beat us after leading the whole game. I would say that's an improvement, but until we wise up and make Arkansas or Ole Miss our permanent opponent from the West, we will continue to struggle after that 3rd Saturday in October. We'll all see that fact kill our chances of a Division title some day in the future. Freaken UF will go to Atlanta because we just had to have that 3rd Saturday ass whoopin that leads to another loss shortly thereafter.
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Obviously you are new to Tennessee football and don't understand that there was a time when that game made Bam cringe... If you don't have the mental or testicular fortitude to want to play these games then you can take your ass to Nashville with the vandy fans who actually think the little success they have had the last few years is because they are turning a corner and totally look over the fact they listed their schedule with 4 terrible OOC games and caught Florida and Tennessee at the perfect time. I am for guiding coaches and players accountable but fans (or ones who claim they are fans) make me sick! So Efff off vandy lovers...

Rant over
 
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#36
#36
vols40 said:
Obviously you are new to Tennessee football and don't understand that there was a time when that game made Bam cringe... If you don't have the mental or testicular fortitude to want to play these games then you can take your ass to Nashville with the vandy fans who actually think the little success they have had the last few years is because they are turning a corner and totally look over the fact they listed their schedule with 4 terrible OOC games and caught Florida and Tennessee at the perfect time. I am for guiding coaches and players accountable but fans (or ones who claim they are fans) make me sick! So Efff off vandy lovers...

Rant over
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I grew up in the 70's and 80's, so I remember not beating them for a long time, the 82 game, 85 game, the 10 year streak, the horrible, horrible 1990 loss with arguably the most talented team we ever had, the next few years of futility, and then our own streak from 1995 on into the 2000's. My point is the conference has changed, we are really down and have no depth, and that game is a loss in the loss column, but the loss of starters puts more losses in the loss column. If we don't play them every year, then so what? I get the beat the best to be the best, but I'm just warning fans that we will be in a great position at some point and they will cost us and the team that wins the East will not have them on their schedule. It handicaps us every single year. For the old-timers: How many teams were in the conference back in the old days? How many good teams? How many conference games were played back in the day compared to now? Times have changed and everybody is much better than they ever were. We barely beat Vandy and Kentucky some years back in the 90's and early 2000's. It's not fair for us to play them every year. They are never going to be as down as the other teams in the West are likely to be in some stretches. If we are ever good enough to beat UGA and UF, it's really gonna suck when Bama costs us the division title, or we beat them and they get their revenge in Atlanta. I guess many are okay with playing them and thinking we're cowards if we quit playing them. I also guess they are okay with us losing the game yesterday and maybe Kentucky and Vandy games too because of the injuries caused by Bama. At least we played Bama though..right?? Geez...I say that's looking for an excuse as to why we never win anything. We do play Bama, so that's why we don't win anything. The other teams that win our division duck them, and that's okay with the Vol hardliners though. We must play Bama, We must play Bama....We must play Bama...Well, you know if we won the division every year, we'd likely play them every year anyway. It would just mean something other than some sort of right of passage. Take your medicine team. You must take that ass whoopin or you're not man enough to play in this league..Geez..wake up would ya!
 
#37
#37
rusty11 said:
I grew up in the 70's and 80's, so I remember not beating them for a long time, the 82 game, 85 game, the 10 year streak, the horrible, horrible 1990 loss with arguably the most talented team we ever had, the next few years of futility, and then our own streak from 1995 on into the 2000's. My point is the conference has changed, we are really down and have no depth, and that game is a loss in the loss column, but the loss of starters puts more losses in the loss column. If we don't play them every year, then so what? I get the beat the best to be the best, but I'm just warning fans that we will be in a great position at some point and they will cost us and the team that wins the East will not have them on their schedule. It handicaps us every single year. For the old-timers: How many teams were in the conference back in the old days? How many good teams? How many conference games were played back in the day compared to now? Times have changed and everybody is much better than they ever were. We barely beat Vandy and Kentucky some years back in the 90's and early 2000's. It's not fair for us to play them every year. They are never going to be as down as the other teams in the West are likely to be in some stretches. If we are ever good enough to beat UGA and UF, it's really gonna suck when Bama costs us the division title, or we beat them and they get their revenge in Atlanta. I guess many are okay with playing them and thinking we're cowards if we quit playing them. I also guess they are okay with us losing the game yesterday and maybe Kentucky and Vandy games too because of the injuries caused by Bama. At least we played Bama though..right?? Geez...I say that's looking for an excuse as to why we never win anything. We do play Bama, so that's why we don't win anything. The other teams that win our division duck them, and that's okay with the Vol hardliners though. We must play Bama, We must play Bama....We must play Bama...Well, you know if we won the division every year, we'd likely play them every year anyway. It would just mean something other than some sort of right of passage. Take your medicine team. You must take that ass whoopin or you're not man enough to play in this league..Geez..wake up would ya!
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First I apologize to you at your who I quoted and obviously you are not the come lately vol fan. I disagree that the 1990 team was our best ever if for one reason only we struggled mightily to beat an average at best team in the sugar bowl, a game I was at. In closing Alabama did not get where they are today by " taking teams off the schedule" I see your point but will never say they should be removed.

In closing have you ever seen a blocked fg go as far as the one against bama that year? Good chance that ball was over-inflated. Tom Brady would approve.
 
#38
#38
vols40 said:
First I apologize to you at your who I quoted and obviously you are not the come lately vol fan. I disagree that the 1990 team was our best ever if for one reason only we struggled mightily to beat an average at best team in the sugar bowl, a game I was at. In closing Alabama did not get where they are today by " taking teams off the schedule" I see your point but will never say they should be removed.

In closing have you ever seen a blocked fg go as far as the one against bama that year? Good chance that ball was over-inflated. Tom Brady would approve.
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OMG, I was only 25, but I almost had a heart attack! That was unbelievable!
 
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#39
#39
revjayp said:
I know I bang this drum often but being in the health and wellness industry, it’s what stands out the most to me.

We haven’t had a genuine S&C program in over 10 years and it shows every week. It’s been said that Jones didn’t make them work out at all and all he ever asked them to do was check in from time to time. Lunacy.

Sure, we’ve had some players who value and understand they must get stronger and faster but for the most part, it was never emphasized by Jones or Dooley. Coaches all over the country take 2-3* players and develop them schematically but also physically so that by the time they have been in their program 3-4 years they have excelled beyond their initial rating. The NFL is littered with these guys. They had the IQ but needed the development physically to make it. And they did. Not saying you don’t need high rated guys because you absolutely do. But as we’ve witness firsthand with BJ’s recruits, the ratings don’t always tell the whole story. (See Drew Richmond for an example.)

Our boys are slow and weak. Many opponents have called us soft. They’re right. Blame Pruitt, blame Helton even blame the players but if we’re looking at the Bama model, look at what they pay their S&C coach and and measure good teams against that. I promise you theirs a coloration between the 2.
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Define coloration.
 
#41
#41
JonGrudensAgent said:
Butch is a complete idiot but I'd like to see where it's been reported that he didn't make the team work out at all and just check in occassionally.
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He gave upperclassmen the option on certain days of the week as to whether or not they wanted to practice. I remember hearing this on Nashville sports talk radio at least a year before he was canned. I remember because I was beside myself.
 
#42
#42
lifeisdeep said:
He gave upperclassmen the option on certain days of the week as to whether or not they wanted to practice. I remember hearing this on Nashville sports talk radio at least a year before he was canned. I remember because I was beside myself.
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Yes! I live in Franklin and remember this was a huge part of the Midday 180 show... Tbey were stunned as was I.
 
#44
#44
When NFL scouts said the Tennessee players were "soft" they didn't mean that these guys have beer belly's and flabby arms, they were talking about toughness, they we're talking about a guys willingness to knock somebody on there butt and not just the willingness to but the desire to. These guys didn't have toughness instilled in them and the only way we get tough, hard-nosed, mean as hell football players is a tough, hard-nosed, mean as hell football coach who instills those qualities in his players. We have the coach but he can't perform miracle's on these guys who were ruined under the previous staff. He needs 25 more, he already told us this but some of you aren't listening.
 
#45
#45
Boogievol said:
When NFL scouts said the Tennessee players were "soft" they didn't mean that these guys have beer belly's and flabby arms, they were talking about toughness, they we're talking about a guys willingness to knock somebody on there butt and not just the willingness to but the desire to. These guys didn't have toughness instilled in them and the only way we get tough, hard-nosed, mean as hell football players is a tough, hard-nosed, mean as hell football coach who instills those qualities in his players. We have the coach but he can't perform miracle's on these guys who were ruined under the previous staff. He needs 25 more, he already told us this but some of you aren't listening.
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True, But they are also physically soft. Just watch some film of the line trying to run block or stop a short yardage run. Bless their hearts, it’s so sad. They are getting blown off the line. They are soft mentally and physically. I can’t wait for the new crop of players to come in. I get what Pruitt is saying.
 
#46
#46
rusty11 said:
Nope, in my scenario, we do beat UF and UGA one year and are sitting pretty until we lose to Bama and then the physical beating and let down of losing our first game of the year will cost another game as well, Florida will beat UGA and they will go to face Bama in the SEC champ. game. That's my other point. Play them during the season and never get to Atlanta. Even if we did beat them, we'd probably face them in Atlanta and they'd of course kick our butts there. You want to play them twice? It's not a loser mentality, it's just the facts. We play too many conference games and we are the only team from the East that plays Bama every year. It doesn't make sense in the modern era. I'm completely confident that we would have won last night had we played anybody but Bama last week. Talk about luck of the draw. We just got slaughtered in every sense of the word and they had a week off last week. They only won by 3.
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No man, you definitely have a loser's mindset.
 
#47
#47
tennesseeduke said:
It takes more than spring and summer to catch up after 3 yrs of not doing anything. Go lay on the couch for a few weeks and then run a 5k and see how you feel.
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You really believe that these guys had zero S&C for three years?

Even, if that were the case, if you gave the average American couch potato the level of nutritional support, and a college football S&C program for 10 months, they'd most likely be capable of competing in a triathalon by the 10 months mark. They might not win it, but they'd complete it decent time.

There's no excuse for the defense to be gassed after 21 minutes of game time in a late October night game. None.
 
#48
#48
revjayp said:
I know I bang this drum often but being in the health and wellness industry, it’s what stands out the most to me.

We haven’t had a genuine S&C program in over 10 years and it shows every week. It’s been said that Jones didn’t make them work out at all and all he ever asked them to do was check in from time to time. Lunacy.

Sure, we’ve had some players who value and understand they must get stronger and faster but for the most part, it was never emphasized by Jones or Dooley. Coaches all over the country take 2-3* players and develop them schematically but also physically so that by the time they have been in their program 3-4 years they have excelled beyond their initial rating. The NFL is littered with these guys. They had the IQ but needed the development physically to make it. And they did. Not saying you don’t need high rated guys because you absolutely do. But as we’ve witness firsthand with BJ’s recruits, the ratings don’t always tell the whole story. (See Drew Richmond for an example.)

Our boys are slow and weak. Many opponents have called us soft. They’re right. Blame Pruitt, blame Helton even blame the players but if we’re looking at the Bama model, look at what they pay their S&C coach and and measure good teams against that. I promise you theirs a corelation between the 2.
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I call BS on all of the highlighted text above. And not ordinary BS, but MASSIVE BS.
 
#50
#50
JMSqb11 said:
Once again, let’s judge when Pruitt’s recruits make up the majority of the roster aka 3 recruiting classes.

A lot of the Butch holdovers are Snakebit. I can’t say I blame because they are victims of the awfulness of Butch. Will just be happy when the majority of the roster has only had one S&C and System to go thru.
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Bet the house on it.
 
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