The next Tee Martin!!!!

[KBVol]

Our sample size for Dobbs is way too small. Great character and ahelluva athlete but he will show us who he is after a full season. Tee was at the helm for some huge victories and he didn't just "play a part". He had the ball in his hands every play. He didn't just hand the ball off.

And that "anomaly" was anything but. He set the NCAA record for consecutive completions. AFTER he just beat Alabama and a game before he beat Notre Dame.

Weather you want to admit it or not he was more than just dressing out for the games while the real players took care of things.

Dobbs is special but is still in the process of writing his story. But Tee did just about everything you could ask of a college qb. Why are you so bent on ignoring that?

Tee played winning football as Tennessee's QB. He had a penchant for making a big play in '98, the dude was clutch.

However, he didn't exactly put us on his back. That's why I said he played his part in 1998. That team was primarily predicated on a strong defense (8th in the nation scoring D) and a strong running game with Lewis, Henry and Stephens.....think the Arkansas game when Tee was 10-27 throwing...it was Henry and the OL who took over and won the game after the Stoerner fumble. I'm honestly not trying to demean Tee, he did some really good things. But he wasn't a dominant QB.

a·nom·a·ly
əˈnäməlē/
noun
1.
something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.

Now, unless you're suggesting that Tee normally completed 24 of 24 passes on a regular basis, that performance, though as great as it was thst day, was very much an anomaly...it would be for any QB, but especially for a guy who was a pretty average passer like Tee. He completed 55% of his passes as a starter, 57% in 1998, 54% in 1999.

I think you've read more negativity into my earlier post than was intended. Tee deserves great credit for qb'ing the only other National Championship team that we've had since 1951. When I say he played his part, I mean that as a compliment. He was our offensive leader and he came through with some huge plays to keep us undefeated that year....vs Syracuse, in the SECCG and in the Nstional Title game come to mind quickly.

But let's not rewrite history here. Tee was neither an All-SEC nor an All-American QB at Tennessee. He was an important cog in the 98 championship machine....but there's a reason why there's not a Tee Martin Room in the Anderson Training Center. Just keeping it real as they say.

 

[Wylo]

Dobbs had played:

Alabama x2.
USCe
Auburn
UK x2
Mizzou x2
Vandy x2
Iowa


Tee played:

17 Syracuse
2 Florida
Houston
Auburn
7 Georgia
Alabama
USCe
UAB
10 Ark
UK
Vandy
23 Miss State
2 Florida State

Wyoming
4 Florida
Memphis
Auburn
10 Georgia
10 Alabama
USCe
24 ND
Ark
UK
Vandy
3 Neb



Yeah, but Dobbs has a better completion percentage. Your stats against a handful of teams is invalid...

 

[Volosaurus rex]

Tee hit his stride during the second half of the 1998 season, but the South Carolina game helped to statistically compensate for what had been a fairly rough first half of the year. His single-game stats for those first six games were as follows:

Syracuse: 9-26-0. 143 yds. 2 touchdowns, plus 80 yards rushing on 9 carries and 1 touchdown.
Florida: 7-20-1. 64 yds. 1 touchdown, plus 25 yards rushing on 8 carries.
Houston: 14-19-1. 234 yds. 4 touchdowns, plus 33 yards rushing on 6 carries.
Auburn: 5-14-0. 68 yds.
Georgia: 16-26-2. 156 yds. 2 touchdowns, plus 45 yards rushing on 15 carries.
Alabama: 10-14-0. 117 yds., plus 41 yards rushing on 13 carries and 2 touchdowns.

If my calculations are correct, at the mid-season mark, Tee was 61-119-4 for 782 yards and 9 touchdowns, plus 224 yards rushing on 51 carries and 3 more tds.

The Houston, South Carolina, UAB and Vanderbilt games are where Tee fattened up the stat sheet in ‘98. Against those opponents, he compiled the following stats:

Houston: 14-19-1. 234 yds. 4 touchdowns, plus 33 yards rushing on 6 carries.
South Carolina: 23-24-0. 315 yds. 4 touchdowns, plus 37 yards rushing on 4 carries.
UAB: 18-25-0. 274 yds., 1 touchdown, plus -11 yards rushing on 6 carries.
Vanderbilt: 13-20-0. 241 yds., 1 touchdown, plus 12 yards rushing on 9 carries and 1 touchdown.

Those four opponents had a combined record of 10-34 in 1998. Tee completed 68-88 passes for 1064 yards and 10 touchdowns against them, with only one interception and added 71 yards rushing on 25 carries and 1 additional touchdown. One certainly can expect any good quarterback to fatten up the stat sheet against inferior competition, but Tee did a disproportionate amount of damage against them. That isn’t a criticism of Tee per se, except when you juxtapose these numbers vs. those posted against stronger opposition. Therein lies a particularly dramatic contrast.

Fortunately, Tee definitely had a penchant for making big plays and, most importantly, he saved his very best for when it mattered most. Against FSU, he completed 11-18 for 278 yds, of which 199 went to Peerless Price, 15.4 ypa and 25.3 yds. per completion.

 

[Ace]

I hope Dobbs has a great season, but he is not even close to the qb that Tee Martin was. Dobbs is not even close to Casey Clausen. Dobbs has yet to prove he can throw the deep ball. I hope he surpasses both, but I think even he would tell us that he has a lot to prove before he can be compared to a Vol great.

 

[Ace]

I found some stats on Tee Martin.
22-3 and 14-2 in the SEC

 

[gunner]

Let's do indeed. Tee also lost to UF. Doesn't change the fact that, IMHO, Dobbs is already a better, more productive QB than Tee was, despite having considerably less talent around him than Tee did.

KB,

Tee did indeed lose to UF in the Swamp in 99, but that loss had more to do with their DE making 5 sacks in that game. Tee was harassed all night by the Gator front, and I'm afraid that's what they will do to Dobbs this year.

It always comes dowm to same formula to beat them, significantly out rush them and make fewer turnovers than them. It will be no different this season.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

I hope Dobbs has a great season, but he is not even close to the qb that Tee Martin was. Dobbs is not even close to Casey Clausen. Dobbs has yet to prove he can throw the deep ball. I hope he surpasses both, but I think even he would tell us that he has a lot to prove before he can be compared to a Vol great.

I respect your opinion and Tee deserves all of the credit in the world for being a productive part of a great national championship-winning team. Personally, like KBVol, I believe that you are giving Tee too much credit individually for the success of that team. If we may take a brief diversion, let's take a quick look at the productivity we got out of the quarterback position in 1997 and 1998:

In 1997, Peyton led us to a SEC championship and was 287-477-11 for 3819 yds. and 36 tds.

In 1998, Tee was 153-267-6 for 2164 yds. and 19 tds. He ran for 287 yds. and 7 more touchdowns.

When you compare QB production from 1997 to 1998, you lose 1700 yds. and 17 tds. through the air. Tee didn't make up the difference with yardage he gained running.

What was the difference in terms of overall team performance? A strong running game that, in 1998, posted an SEC-best 211.3 ypg (most of which was provided by Travis Henry, Travis Stephens and Jamal Lewis), and a defense, led by the iron-willed Al Wilson, that gave up only 189 points (in 13 games), compared to the '97 team which yielded 286 points. Overall scoring for Tennessee was virtually identical, 431 points in '98, compared to 428 in '97. In short, a stout defense and hardnosed running game has always been and remains a winning formula in the SEC.

 

[Guyute]

Tee played winning football as Tennessee's QB. He had a penchant for making a big play in '98, the dude was clutch.

However, he didn't exactly put us on his back. That's why I said he played his part in 1998. That team was primarily predicated on a strong defense (8th in the nation scoring D) and a strong running game with Lewis, Henry and Stephens.....think the Arkansas game when Tee was 10-27 throwing...it was Henry and the OL who took over and won the game after the Stoerner fumble. I'm honestly not trying to demean Tee, he did some really good things. But he wasn't a dominant QB.

a·nom·a·ly
əˈnäməlē/
noun
1.
something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.

Now, unless you're suggesting that Tee normally completed 24 of 24 passes on a regular basis, that performance, though as great as it was thst day, was very much an anomaly...it would be for any QB, but especially for a guy who was a pretty average passer like Tee. He completed 55% of his passes as a starter, 57% in 1998, 54% in 1999.

I think you've read more negativity into my earlier post than was intended. Tee deserves great credit for qb'ing the only other National Championship team that we've had since 1951. When I say he played his part, I mean that as a compliment. He was our offensive leader and he came through with some huge plays to keep us undefeated that year....vs Syracuse, in the SECCG and in the Nstional Title game come to mind quickly.

But let's not rewrite history here. Tee was neither an All-SEC nor an All-American QB at Tennessee. He was an important cog in the 98 championship machine....but there's a reason why there's not a Tee Martin Room in the Anderson Training Center. Just keeping it real as they say.

But he does have a street named after him.

I disputed your use of the word "anomalous" because it implies a great game was impossible for a guy like Tee, not because I didn't know what it meant, Richard.

How about YOU refrain from rewriting history. What is your criteria for being a next-level college qb? How many teams with great defenses and great running games have failed to win SEC and national titles?

I just think you are wrong about this. Dobbs is the best qb we have had for quite some time and for a lot of reasons. Don't know why that means you have to rip Tee.

 

[KBVol]

I hope Dobbs has a great season, but he is not even close to the qb that Tee Martin was. Dobbs is not even close to Casey Clausen. Dobbs has yet to prove he can throw the deep ball. I hope he surpasses both, but I think even he would tell us that he has a lot to prove before he can be compared to a Vol great.

And why is Dobbs "not even close to the QB that Tee Martin was"? Honest question. And please give us something more than your opinion here.

Dobbs still has much to prove and is a very humble young man, so I'm certain you're right. Also, nobody's brought up Clausen, this is a thread about Dobbs and Tee. I agree that he's not as good as Clausen to this point. But then, Cssey is pretty much second to Peyton in most UT passing stats/records, so that's a very high bar.

I'll leave you with this thought. What's the biggest knock/criticism on Dobbs right now? It's his accuracy, right? Well, despite not throwing the deep ball as well, his accuracy is much better than Tee's was, 62% to 55%.

 

[fayettegavol]

Dobbs has the potential to be one of the better QB's we've seen in a really long time. The key to it is staying off his back in the backfield. He is already the smartest on an educational level, but I really want to see him start showing more field smarts. He has his flashes, but I just need to see it consistently.

 

[KBVol]

But he does have a street named after him.

I disputed your use of the word "anomalous" because it implies a great game was impossible for a guy like Tee, not because I didn't know what it meant, Richard.

How about YOU refrain from rewriting history. What is your criteria for being a next-level college qb? How many teams with great defenses and great running games have failed to win SEC and national titles?

I just think you are wrong about this. Dobbs is the best qb we have had for quite some time and for a lot of reasons. Don't know why that means you have to rip Tee.

Ok, so you still don't know what anomaly means, even though I provided the definition for you. Thought we were having a friendly debate before you brought out the "Richard" comment but, no matter.

Tee has a street named after him and deservedly so. All I've tried to do is put his career at UT in the proper context. It offends you, I don't really care. Tee was the QB of last national title team, had a penchant for making big plays in '98, and is a beloved figure at Tennessee because of those reasons...and rightfully so. But to act as though he was a great QB who didn't have worse accuracy issues as a junior and senior on some great Tennessee teams than Dobbs as a freshman and sophomore on some very bad Tennessee teams is both to be willfully ignorant and wrong.

 

[fayettegavol]

Dobbs accuracy is a direct reflection of having to run for his life it seamed like over half the time. If he had the time Tee Martin had to make decisions I truly believe he would be in the high 60's maybe even low 70's percentage on passes. Always getting hit in the pocket will cause a QB to hurry on easy passes. That's just human nature.

 

[KBVol]

I found some stats on Tee Martin.
22-3 and 14-2 in the SEC

Tee play 1 on 22 those in games or did he a little help from guys like Jamal Lewis, Travis Henry, Al Wilson, Shawn Bryson, Peerless Price, Shaun Ellis, Raynoch Thompson, Chad Clifton, Dwayne Goodrich, Cosey Coleman, Deon Grant and Darwin Walker? All players off those 98 and 99 teams who were taken higher in the NFL Draft.

Look, you want to defend Tee, I get it. But Tee just wasn't a great a QB at Tennessee. He was a clutch player for UT, he was the right QB for the 98 team to get them a national title. I've said numerous times now that Tee deserves great praise for playing his part on those teams. That's just the truth.

 

[swamprat#10]

Slightly OT but start a thread. Does it bother any else that the best long passees of the last two seasons were thrown by a running back and a holder for kicks I respect what Dobbs did last year but this team can't reach the heights a lot of us expect unless without at least the threat of a long pass now and then.

 

[KBVol]

Slightly OT but start a thread. Does it bother any else that the best long passees of the last two seasons were thrown by a running back and a holder for kicks I respect what Dobbs did last year but this team can't reach the heights a lot of us expect unless without at least the threat of a long pass now and then.

Not much. Agree that Dobbs has to get better throwing the deep ball, everybody knows that. But I'll take Dobbs' 42 and 31 yard completions in the SCar game, his 3 20+ yd completions vs Alabama, even his 33 yard completion vs Vandy, ahead of a couple of trick plays that worked because the defense was caught off guard.

 

[Ace]

Tee is a winner, leader, and clutch player. Dobbs has never beaten a good team. BTW, SC and Iowa are not good teams. Sure Martin had a better surrounding cast, but Dobbs will have a pretty good group this year. Again I hope Dobbs is great, but he is no Tee Martin, yet. IMO, it is too early to proclaim Dobbs as superior to Tee Martin.

 

[KBVol]

Tee is a winner, leader, and clutch player. Dobbs has never beaten a good team. BTW, SC and Iowa are not good teams. Sure Martin had a better surrounding cast, but Dobbs will have a pretty good group this year. Again I hope Dobbs is great, but he is no Tee Martin, yet. IMO, it is too early to proclaim Dobbs as superior to Tee Martin.

I've said the exact same things about Tee because they're all true. Tennessee hasn't won a lot of games with Dobbs as their QB yet because the last 2 Tennessee teams have been pretty bad to awful, not because Josh hasn't been productive.

And you're right that Dobbs hasn't proven to be "no Tee Martin" at this point....he's actually proven to be both a more accurate passer and better runner at this point in his career. As Tennessee adds more talent that maybe approaches the collective talent of those 98 & 99 teams and Josh becomes better with his vertical passing game, as a junior and senior just like Tee was, let's see how many games we win.

 

[Ace]

I've said the exact same things about Tee because they're all true. Tennessee hasn't won a lot of games with Dobbs as their QB yet because the last 2 Tennessee teams have been pretty bad to awful, not because Josh hasn't been productive.

And you're right that Dobbs hasn't proven to be "no Tee Martin" at this point....he's actually proven to be both a more accurate passer and better runner at this point in his career. As Tennessee adds more talent that maybe approaches the collective talent of those 98 & 99 teams and Josh becomes better with his vertical passing game, as a junior and senior just like Tee was, let's see how many games we win.

I think we both want JD to be great,

 

[Remy]

So, this is a thread to backdoor into the position, "Dobbs can't hit the broadside of a barn" AGAIN?!?!?

 

[KBVol]

I think we both want JD to be great,

We do. And I believe, like you, that Tee did great things in helping Tennessee win its first National Title in 47 years back in 1998. He should always be revered for that. Hope that Dobbs somehow able to hoist the trophy one day as well ...just hope he doesn't do the throat slash dance that Peerless did on the podium. Lol.

 

[SteelerVol]

I always liked Tee but he has to learn when to cut Sarkisian off at the keg.

 

[Orangeblood98']

Let's do indeed. Tee also lost to UF. Doesn't change the fact that, IMHO, Dobbs is already a better, more productive QB than Tee was, despite having considerably less talent around him than Tee did.

Can we please see Dobbs play a whole season in this league first?

 

[KBVol]

Can we please see Dobbs play a whole season in this league first?

Josh has played nearly a full season's worth of games in his first 2 years as a freshman and sophomore, 11 games, about half what Tee played his last 2 years. Figured there's a decent enough sample size to compare. Of course we can wait to see more though. I expect great things from Josh after being named the man from day 1...let's hope it ends the same way Tee's season ended in Jan '99.

 

[Orangeblood98']

Josh has played nearly a full season's worth of games in his first 2 years as a freshman and sophomore, 11 games, about half what Tee played his last 2 years. Figured there's a decent enough sample size to compare. Of course we can wait to see more though. I expect great things from Josh after being named the man from day 1...let's hope it ends the same way Tee's season ended in Jan '99.

I expect great things as well, but, I'm not ready to say he's already a better QB than Tee was. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[orangepit]

Looking for the next Joshua Dobbs...