The NCAA is a shameful organization.

[bamawriter]

Neither provides a deterrent, otherwise there would be no murderers, rapists, thieves or child molesters. Some crimes are punishable by death, yet those crimes still get committed in spite of the possible consequences.

Likewise, Bama's most recent NCAA sanctions didn't act as a deterrent for Ohio State or North Carolina.

The fact that neither is a deterrent doesn't serve to justify the NCAA stepping in on this issue. The argument that keeps getting tossed about is "The NCAA has to send the message that these actions won't be tolerated." Does the penal code of Pennsylvania not send that message?

 

[VolBeef88]

And yet you aren't willing to make the argument that their actions provide a greater deterrent than the legal system's. So basically you're just a fan of vengeance?

Reaching there bammer. 1st you change my post now putting words in my mouth. My point is both are deterrents. Most would rather lose a job than go to jail but that doesn't change the fact that both are deterrents. You think maybe BOT's around the country are wondering just what's going on at their school?
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[VolBeef88]

I guarantee you BOT's across the country are reviewing their oversight procedures.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[bamawriter]

Reaching there bammer. 1st you change my post now putting words in my mouth. My point is both are deterrents. Most would rather lose a job than go to jail but that doesn't change the fact that both are deterrents.

That's like wiping a booger on someone after you've beaten him with a crowbar. No one likes to have snot wiped on them.

And the people the NCAA is hoping to "deter" didn't do anything in the first place.

You think maybe BOT's around the country are wondering just what's going on at their school?
Posted via VolNation Mobile

I'm not defending the PSU BOT, because they screwed up at several points in this thing. But you act like there was something they could have done to prevent this, and I disagree. If a small group of people work to keep something hidden, it'll happen.

 

[PowerSweep]

Neither provides a deterrent, otherwise there would be no murderers, rapists, thieves or child molesters. Some crimes are punishable by death, yet those crimes still get committed in spite of the possible consequences.

Likewise, Bama's most recent NCAA sanctions didn't act as a deterrent for Ohio State or North Carolina.

we lock people up to keep those same people from doing it again...anyone who thinks this was any more/less likely to happen again with/without ncaa action is frankly a moron.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

The fact that neither is a deterrent doesn't serve to justify the NCAA stepping in on this issue. The argument that keeps getting tossed about is "The NCAA has to send the message that these actions won't be tolerated." Does the penal code of Pennsylvania not send that message?

It depends on the actions you're talking about.

The penal code of Pennsylvania covers raping children, and conspiring to cover up that crime, or lying to a grand jury.

It's a reasonable argument to suggest that PSU's football program benefitted and the university profited from making sure these crimes never came to light. Given participation of the most powerful administrators at PSU, it's also reasonable to suggest there's was a lack of institutional control...enter the NCAA.

We can debate the severity of the sanctions or empathize with the innocent people affected by the NCAA's decision, but you can't convince me the university didn't deserve to be punished.

 

[milohimself]

It depends on the actions you're talking about.

The penal code of Pennsylvania covers raping children, and conspiring to cover up that crime, or lying to a grand jury.

It's a reasonable argument to suggest that PSU's football program benefitted and the university profited from making sure these crimes never came to light. Given participation of the most powerful administrators at PSU, it's also reasonable to suggest there's was a lack of institutional control...enter the NCAA.

We can debate the severity of the sanctions or empathize with the innocent people affected by the NCAA's decision, but you can't convince me the university didn't deserve to be punished.

The Clery Act already ensures that public institutions will be subject to punishment for just this sort of thing.

There's nothing people wanted to see done to Penn State that the legal system wasn't in place to do, and is already doing.

I won't speak for bamawriter, but I wanted to see punishments handed out as much as anyone -- but coming from the legal system, not the NCAA, because if the NCAA did it then they would be taking on a new level of authority that they don't belong anywhere near.

 

[vols-1]

The argument that keeps getting tossed about is "The NCAA has to send the message that these actions won't be tolerated." Does the penal code of Pennsylvania not send that message?

They can't send the message if it's being covered up.

 

[PowerSweep]

It depends on the actions you're talking about.

The penal code of Pennsylvania covers raping children, and conspiring to cover up that crime, or lying to a grand jury.

It's a reasonable argument to suggest that PSU's football program benefitted and the university profited from making sure these crimes never came to light. Given participation of the most powerful administrators at PSU, it's also reasonable to suggest there's was a lack of institutional control...enter the NCAA.

We can debate the severity of the sanctions or empathize with the innocent people affected by the NCAA's decision, but you can't convince me the university didn't deserve to be punished.

how do you logically come to that conclusion given that they were having a solid recruiting year (top 15) in a FAR WORSE ENVIRONMENT than would have existed in 2001 if it came out then about a coach that had been gone for several years. You think Syracuse hoops is struggling to recruit right now? They are in on most of the kids in the national top 10 after signing a top 10-15 class last year. I just find this argument illogical and ridiculous and based on nothing. In fact the objective evidence we have points in the opposite direction.

Yes, it seems obvious that they protected a former friend, colleague, and member of the family. And they probably wanted to avoid the embarrassment, something they will pay dearly for both civilly and criminally. But to say they gained an advantage frankly makes no sense.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

how do you logically come to that conclusion given that they were having a solid recruiting year (top 15) in a FAR WORSE ENVIRONMENT than would have existed in 2001 if it came out then about a coach that had been gone for several years. You think Syracuse hoops is struggling to recruit right now? They are in on most of the kids in the national top 10 after signing a top 10-15 class last year. I just find this argument illogical and ridiculous and based on nothing. In fact the objective evidence we have points in the opposite direction.

Yes, it seems obvious that they protected a former friend, colleague, and member of the family. And they probably wanted to avoid the embarrassment, something they will pay dearly for both civilly and criminally. But to say they gained an advantage frankly makes no sense.

Please read my post again and tell me where I claimed Penn State "gained an advantage" by covering up Sandusky's crimes.

 

[PowerSweep]

Please read my post again and tell me where I claimed Penn State "gained an advantage" by covering up Sandusky's crimes.

It's a reasonable argument to suggest that PSU's football program benefitted and the university profited from making sure these crimes never came to light

--->what did you mean by that? assumed that's what you meant and an argument made many x last couple days

 

[Lawrence Wright]

It's a reasonable argument to suggest that PSU's football program benefitted and the university profited from making sure these crimes never came to light

--->what did you mean by that? assumed that's what you meant and an argument made many x last couple days

Penn State's top administrators didn't want negative publicity to detract from its football program, specifically Paterno's pursuit of the all-time wins battle against Bobby Bowden. Penn State's football program continued to operate, generating revenue for the athletic department, generating positive publicity for Paterno and the university...all while top administrators ingored Sandusky's actions.

If that argument doesn't seem reasonable to you, then perhaps we should just agree to disagree.

 

[PowerSweep]

Penn State's top administrators didn't want negative publicity to detract from its football program, specifically Paterno's pursuit of the all-time wins battle against Bobby Bowden. Penn State's football program continued to operate, generating revenue for the athletic department, generating positive publicity for Paterno and the university...all while top administrators ingored Sandusky's actions.

If that argument doesn't seem reasonable to you, then perhaps we should just agree to disagree.

so they would have taken in less revenue? based on what? I mean...we have a case study at Syracuse...has that happened there? Nope...hasn't affected them one bit.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

so they would have taken in less revenue? based on what? I mean...we have a case study at Syracuse...has that happened there? Nope...hasn't affected them one bit.

Penn State's brass didn't want to risk finding out what the revenue exposure would be, so they remained silent. They though it better to protect their $116M annual revenue stream and JoePa's legacy.

The revenue impact for the Syracuse basketball program is a rounding error compared PSU's football program.

 

[BeecherVol]

how do you logically come to that conclusion given that they were having a solid recruiting year (top 15) in a FAR WORSE ENVIRONMENT than would have existed in 2001 if it came out then about a coach that had been gone for several years. You think Syracuse hoops is struggling to recruit right now? They are in on most of the kids in the national top 10 after signing a top 10-15 class last year. I just find this argument illogical and ridiculous and based on nothing. In fact the objective evidence we have points in the opposite direction.

Yes, it seems obvious that they protected a former friend, colleague, and member of the family. And they probably wanted to avoid the embarrassment, something they will pay dearly for both civilly and criminally. But to say they gained an advantage frankly makes no sense.

This is the interesting part. Given what the punishment is/will be embarrassment would be priceless right now.

 

[VolBeef88]

My last post in this thread because no one is gonna change their mind.
I dislike the NCAA as much or more than anyone. But I believe the NCAA acted within their purview and I applaud them for FINALLY doing the "right thing".
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[TrueOrange]

Outside the lines did a special report this evening where there was a great discussion on this matter (following an interview with Emmert)

 

[ukvols]

how do you logically come to that conclusion given that they were having a solid recruiting year (top 15) in a FAR WORSE ENVIRONMENT than would have existed in 2001 if it came out then about a coach that had been gone for several years. You think Syracuse hoops is struggling to recruit right now? They are in on most of the kids in the national top 10 after signing a top 10-15 class last year. I just find this argument illogical and ridiculous and based on nothing. In fact the objective evidence we have points in the opposite direction.

Yes, it seems obvious that they protected a former friend, colleague, and member of the family. And they probably wanted to avoid the embarrassment, something they will pay dearly for both civilly and criminally. But to say they gained an advantage frankly makes no sense.

I think PSU's motivation was 100% about protecting the football program and 0% about protecting Sandusky.

They thought the football program would be better off with Sandusky covered up; in other words, they tried to gain an advantage over allowing the acts to come to light.

 

[PowerSweep]

Penn State's brass didn't want to risk finding out what the revenue exposure would be, so they remained silent. They though it better to protect their $116M annual revenue stream and JoePa's legacy.

The revenue impact for the Syracuse basketball program is a rounding error compared PSU's football program.

you think bernie fine is gonna impact boeheim's legacy? Or that they made a calculation about future revenue streams? That doesn't make sense. They just protected a friend and colleague...simple as that.

 

[ukvols]

I think PSU would have turned Sandusky in a long time ago had they expected no damages to the football program.

 

[95 Vol Alum]

Outside the lines did a special report this evening where there was a great discussion on this matter (following an interview with Emmert)

I just watched the interview. Great job by Bob Ley, btw.

I may be completely jaded on this now, but Emmert did nothing to clarify the NCAA's rationale for involvement. He stated that they didn't decide they needed to be involved until the issuance of the Freeh report. Ley asked about the death penalty option that the president referenced yesterday. Emmert - well that wasn't necessarily a choice. Reading between his politic speak, my take was if PSU elected to insist on due process, death penalty was likely going to be the outcome as the AA would view that as uncooperative.

Again maybe I misunderstood but that was my walk away.

 

[95 Vol Alum]

"Coaches and administrators are scared" about what the NCAA has done here regarding precedent.

From Chris Fowler

 

[GreyWolf1129]

I really don't care who nuked PSU, and PSU football.

It could have been the Peace Corps for all I care. What's important (to me, at least), is that the former head coach, AD, and president (at the very least) covered up a serial pedophile on their staff. As to "why" they did it, well...there's only one logical answer.

Penn State deserved to be drawn and quartered by any organization that had the means and balls to do it. Matters not to me who it ended up being.

Yes, it's a shame that hundreds, possibly thousands of PSU students, athletes, and vendors who had nothing to do with any of this will suffer for the actions of a few. That part, and that part alone, saddens me.

But not nearly as much as the horror and rage I feel at knowing that this could have been stopped no later than 1998 if just one...just one of those who trumpeted the "virtues" of Penn State could have found a single ounce of that same virtue inside their heart.

For me, every day they looked in the mirror after that was simply another violation that deserved to be punished, and harshly.

Personally, I think Paterno's statue should be melted down and turned into a sword that is used to behead those who knew, and did nothing to stop it.

Go Vols.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

you think bernie fine is gonna impact boeheim's legacy? Or that they made a calculation about future revenue streams? That doesn't make sense. They just protected a friend and colleague...simple as that.

It's much more complicated than that. Failing to act when Sandusky's actions became known protected the football program and Paterno's legacy, in addition to Sandusky.

If you're suggesting Penn State's top administrators didn't take into account the financial impact of outing Sandusky, then I completely disagree with you.

As for Syracuse, Boeheim didn't cover up Fine's actions, nor did any of Syracuse's administrators...apples and oranges.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

I really don't care who nuked PSU, and PSU football.

It could have been the Peace Corps for all I care. What's important (to me, at least), is that the former head coach, AD, and president (at the very least) covered up a serial pedophile on their staff. As to "why" they did it, well...there's only one logical answer.

Penn State deserved to be drawn and quartered by any organization that had the means and balls to do it. Matters not to me who it ended up being.

Yes, it's a shame that hundreds, possibly thousands of PSU students, athletes, and vendors who had nothing to do with any of this will suffer for the actions of a few. That part, and that part alone, saddens me.

But not nearly as much as the horror and rage I feel at knowing that this could have been stopped no later than 1998 if just one...just one of those who trumpeted the "virtues" of Penn State could have found a single ounce of that same virtue inside their heart.

For me, every day they looked in the mirror after that was simply another violation that deserved to be punished, and harshly.

Personally, I think Paterno's statue should be melted down and turned into a sword that is used to behead those who knew, and did nothing to stop it.

Go Vols.

You had me until that last sentence, but I agree with just about everything you said.