The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

#3,279
#3,279
I think they're guilty of murder, but I'm not a fan of the hate crime charge in any situation. It doesn't get evenly or fairly applied, and any crime of this level carries elements of hate. To illustrate my point, were the murderers of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom charged with hate crimes? What was done to those two was pure evil, and should have qualified as a hate crime if anything does. But they were white, and straight. What was done to Ahmaud Arbery was horrible, and wrong. Those men deserve to be punished. Just not a fan of the whole "hate crime" thing.
 
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#3,280
#3,280
Weezer said:
I think they're guilty of murder, but I'm not a fan of the hate crime charge in any situation. It doesn't get evenly or fairly applied, and any crime of this level carries elements of hate. To illustrate my point, were the murderers of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom charged with hate crimes? What was done to those two was pure evil, and should have qualified as a hate crime if anything does. But they were white, and straight. What was done to Ahmaud Arbery was horrible, and wrong. Those men deserve to be punished. Just not a fan of the whole "hate crime" thing.
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The fact that the Knoxville case wasn't tried as a hate crime doesn't mean this wasn't.
 
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#3,285
#3,285
TrumpedUpVol said:
Wait, so you’re fine with assuming that McMichael committed a “hate crime” because of texts from several years ago… but footage of Arbery casing homes in the neighborhood and his criminal record aren’t fair game when questioning why he was “jogging” there in the first place?
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I'm saying that there appears to be evidence of the killer committing a hate crime based on his comments before the murder, and then immediately after. When he called Arbery a "F****** N*****". Since his dad was a cop and helped out I'm sure the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
 
#3,286
#3,286
vollygirl said:
The fact that the Knoxville case wasn't tried as a hate crime doesn't mean this wasn't.
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Doesn't change that I believe "hate crime" to be an unfair standard. It's only charged when the victim is a POC, or LGBTQ. It's a biased charge. Murder is murder, IMO. And AA was murdered. They deserve to go to jail and rot, but that doesn't change my view on "hate crimes".
 
#3,287
#3,287
Tyler Durden said:
I'm saying that there appears to be evidence of the killer committing a hate crime based on his comments before the murder, and then immediately after. When he called Arbery a "F****** N*****". Since his dad was a cop and helped out I'm sure the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
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Was this immediately after Arbery attempted to turn the gun on him and there was a tussle for the gun that resulted in Arbery being shot? I’ve said words after moments of high emotion that I would normally never say - such as “ I love you”
 
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#3,290
#3,290
Anyone keeping up with this trial? I remember the case but haven't followed the trial.

My views on this case have changed over time. Just saw some mention it this in the news. Anyone following that can give me a rundown?
 
#3,291
#3,291
IIRC it seems pretty clear Aubrey was casing the house and may have been the guy responsible for the earlier thefts in the neighborhood. That said, the guys in the truck are chasing him, not the other way around so there is no immanent threat unless he grapples for the gun - which it seems at the last minute he does. Not smart on his part, irrespective as to who is in the right here. But then it isnt clear that the truck guys had intention to do anything but stop him from escaping and detain him. Unsure if they had lawful right to do so though, especially since all they witnessed IIRC is trespassing.
 
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Gandalf said:
IIRC it seems pretty clear Aubrey was casing the house and may have been the guy responsible for the earlier thefts in the neighborhood. That said, the guys in the truck are chasing him, not the other way around so there is no immanent threat unless he grapples for the gun - which it seems at the last minute he does. Not smart on his part, irrespective as to who is in the right here. But then it isnt clear that the truck guys had intention to do anything but stop him from escaping and detain him. Unsure if they had lawful right to do so though, especially since all they witnessed IIRC is trespassing.
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Those dumbasses in the truck should have called the cops if they felt Arbery was breaking the law. They are not Paul Kersey.
 
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#3,295
#3,295
PEPPERJAX said:
Those dumbasses in the truck should have called the cops if they felt Arbery was breaking the law. They are not Paul Kersey.
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Yeah, they definitely should have been calling the cops and sitting back. From my understanding, father was on phone with 911 as it happened.
Another call that was played was from Gregory McMichael on the day of Arbery's shooting. He is heard saying on the phone, "there's a Black male running down the street." When the dispatcher asks where, McMichael goes on to say, "I don't know ... Stop. Dammit. Stop. Travis!"

Based on the video, I'm not sure murder will stand. Based on the call, there would not seem to be any intension other than to stop him (likely to apprehend). He does seem to be defending himself from Aubrey's rush at him. Even so, I would say that Travis has some culpability in his death. Not sure if Gregory did anything illegal.
 
#3,296
#3,296
Gandalf said:
Yeah, they definitely should have been calling the cops and sitting back. From my understanding, father was on phone with 911 as it happened.
Another call that was played was from Gregory McMichael on the day of Arbery's shooting. He is heard saying on the phone, "there's a Black male running down the street." When the dispatcher asks where, McMichael goes on to say, "I don't know ... Stop. Dammit. Stop. Travis!"

Based on the video, I'm not sure murder will stand. Based on the call, there would not seem to be any intension other than to stop him (likely to apprehend). He does seem to be defending himself from Aubrey's rush at him. Even so, I would say that Travis has some culpability in his death. Not sure if Gregory did anything illegal.
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Maybe Arbery was trying to defend himself from a guy coming at him with a gun. Stand your ground and what not.
 
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#3,297
#3,297
This one is difficult for me. If the two pursuing him had just done that, observe and report, I'd be fine with it. But after chasing him down for many minutes the guy had to be tired and scared.

I'm not completely sure why the deceased ran toward the shooter like he did but this is a hard sell for stand your ground IMO.
 
#3,298
#3,298
KB5252 said:
This one is difficult for me. If the two pursuing him had just done that, observe and report, I'd be fine with it. But after chasing him down for many minutes the guy had to be tired and scared.

I'm not completely sure why the deceased ran toward the shooter like he did but this is a hard sell for stand your ground IMO.
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If memory serves correctly they had pretty much cornered him every direction he went before the guy got out of the truck and started chasing on foot with a gun.
 
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#3,299
#3,299
clarksvol00 said:
Maybe Arbery was trying to defend himself from a guy coming at him with a gun. Stand your ground and what not.
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Well that is certainly a possible perspective. Problem is the video doesnt show that. Seems more like he was running toward the other guy. Maybe he had good reason? Court needs to sort that out.

Usually, if I have a gun and the other guy doesnt, especially a long gun, I want to keep distance, not get close.
 
#3,300
#3,300
Gandalf said:
Well that is certainly a possible perspective. Problem is the video doesnt show that. Seems more like he was running toward the other guy. Maybe he had good reason? Court needs to sort that out.

Usually, if I have a gun and the other guy doesnt, especially a long gun, I want to keep distance, not get close.
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See my response to KB for a little more context. At one point there was some talk that the second vehicle had actually participated in boxing him in.

Edit: Thinking about this a little more, if you get into a truck to chase a guy, continue chasing him, and get out of the truck with a gun and have him on foot, you should probably be prepared to be seen as the primary aggressor. Stand your ground laws are pretty clear that if you feel reasonably threatened you don't have to back down. Arbery may not have reacted how he anticipated, but it doesn't necessarily relieve the dude of culpability.
 
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