The Monday Morning Reality

#1
tennesseeduke

tennesseeduke

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#1
Okay I'm as pissed as anyone at the loss. In fact my favorite hat took the blunt of my frustration after that last play several times! Having had some time to reflect on the game and what actually happened, I've come to the following conclusion.

1). The team played poorly and still had a chance for overtime. That defense was either or. Either play normal and prevent a 15 to 20 yd play for a field goal try or play deep and prevent the bomb. I think we didn't think he could throw it that far so they played normal. Good grief how can the officials miss to blatant penalties on the final play AGAIN!!!!
2). Having state #1 above the game should have never come to that hail mary play.
3). The missed field goals were iffy at best. Cimaglia's from 51 was incredible but you cannot count on field goals of that length, especially on wet real grass.
4). Dumb coaching mistakes on both offense and defense. They are correctable. I believe they did some typical coaching blunders and outsmarted themselves.
5). I still believe 10-2 is very doable. LSU is way overrated and we have them at home. I said before the season it's really a 4 games season. 2 home games with LSU and GA and 2 road games with Bama and Gators. I was thinking the 2 would be GA and Fla. but the LSU game looks much more manageable now.
6). Dormady is a gamer and I really like that about him. If he can clean up a couple of throws then he will win a lot of games for us. The interception in the endzone is on the Palmer. He cut the route off after the ball was on the way. YOU NEVER DO THAT!
7). John Kelly is a freaking beast and we must get him and Chandler the ball as much as possible.
8). They will get healthy and forget Fla after this week as UMASS is awful and on the schedule at a perfect time.
9). I will wait until the end of the season to evaluate and give my opinion on whether CBJ should stay or go. This is his full team now so everything is on him from this year on.

EVERYONE on VN said and thought at the beginning we were a 8-4 to 10-2 team. I believe we still are a 10-2 team and win the EAST as it's still very attainable.

Thoughts VN?

GO VOLS I'm still behind you!

:loco:

Tennesseeduke
 
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#2
#2
I love the optimisim and I really hope it comes true. But I respectfully disagree. I believe we will do good to win 5 more games.
 
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#3
#3
If QD can avoid stupid mistakes and the coaching staff feeds Kelly then yes, this team can put up points. Luckily it looks like the defense doesnt have very many good offenses to face this season (Kentucky, South Carolina, Vanderbilt, Missouri, and even UGA/LSU to a certain extent).
 
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#4
#4
4). Dumb coaching mistakes on both offense and defense. They are correctable. I believe they did some typical coaching blunders and outsmarted themselves.

Well at least the defensive line wasn't playing 2 ft off the ball. Took 2 games to get corrected.
 
#5
#5
Not gonna happen. Weve got some good players on the roster now.....thats about it. Any SEC caliber coaching staff would have Beat OU at home 2 years ago. Would have beat UF 3 years in a row. Would have not lost to SC or Vandy last year. A good coach would have been 11-1 last year with a rematch in Atlanta for a conference championship and playoff berth. Thats the cold hard reality.
 
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#6
#6
Plus the way things are going the MASH unit on the sideline will be half the starters by the time we get to last few games.....oh yeah "next man up", I forgot. How about "next kid up one year removed from playing on Friday nights".
 
#8
#8
The problem is, right now Tennessee has enough respect to be a great win for coaches like Muschamp, Smart, Ogeron, Stoops, Mason....ok? We are still seen as a perennial contender for the east...to some degree. Like it wouldn't be some insane thing if we actually limped into Atlanta, that's what I mean....

But, we have coaches that can't seem to put all the pieces together for a full 60 minutes. I don't know about you guys, but being down or in a dog fight for 48 minutes a game to try to rumble back in the last 10 min or force OT is really not my favorite style of football....

But when you have a reputation like that, opposing coaches will put their cross hairs on you. They know having big plays or going for it on 4th down 2-4 times a game has realllyyyyyyyy worked out for other coaches against us. So it encourages it to happen more. So expect to see Smart run the ball up the middle on 4th and 3. Expect to see a lot of over the middle bombs being thrown against us with 10 seconds to go instead of them just running the ball, getting into field goal range and tying the game up for OT.

When you invite those things. You'll get those things.
 
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#9
#9
booker512 said:
the problem is, right now tennessee has enough respect to be a great win for coaches like muschamp, smart, ogeron, stoops, mason....ok? We are still seen as a perennial contender for the east...to some degree. Like it wouldn't be some insane thing if we actually limped into atlanta, that's what i mean....

But, we have coaches that can't seem to put all the pieces together for a full 60 minutes. I don't know about you guys, but being down or in a dog fight for 48 minutes a game to try to rumble back in the last 10 min or force ot is really not my favorite style of football....

But when you have a reputation like that, opposing coaches will put their cross hairs on you. They know having big plays or going for it on 4th down 2-4 times a game has realllyyyyyyyy worked out for other coaches against us. So it encourages it to happen more. So expect to see smart run the ball up the middle on 4th and 3. Expect to see a lot of over the middle bombs being thrown against us with 10 seconds to go instead of them just running the ball, getting into field goal range and tying the game up for ot.

When you invite those things. You'll get those things.
Click to expand...


like
 
#10
#10
tennesseeduke said:
Okay I'm as pissed as anyone at the loss. In fact my favorite hat took the blunt of my frustration after that last play several times! Having had some time to reflect on the game and what actually happened, I've come to the following conclusion.

1). The team played poorly and still had a chance for overtime. That defense was either or. Either play normal and prevent a 15 to 20 yd play for a field goal try or play deep and prevent the bomb. I think we didn't think he could throw it that far so they played normal. Good grief how can the officials miss to blatant penalties on the final play AGAIN!!!!
2). Having state #1 above the game should have never come to that hail mary play.
3). The missed field goals were iffy at best. Cimaglia's from 51 was incredible but you cannot count on field goals of that length, especially on wet real grass.
4). Dumb coaching mistakes on both offense and defense. They are correctable. I believe they did some typical coaching blunders and outsmarted themselves.
5). I still believe 10-2 is very doable. LSU is way overrated and we have them at home. I said before the season it's really a 4 games season. 2 home games with LSU and GA and 2 road games with Bama and Gators. I was thinking the 2 would be GA and Fla. but the LSU game looks much more manageable now.
6). Dormady is a gamer and I really like that about him. If he can clean up a couple of throws then he will win a lot of games for us. The interception in the endzone is on the Palmer. He cut the route off after the ball was on the way. YOU NEVER DO THAT!
7). John Kelly is a freaking beast and we must get him and Chandler the ball as much as possible.
8). They will get healthy and forget Fla after this week as UMASS is awful and on the schedule at a perfect time.
9). I will wait until the end of the season to evaluate and give my opinion on whether CBJ should stay or go. This is his full team now so everything is on him from this year on.

EVERYONE on VN said and thought at the beginning we were a 8-4 to 10-2 team. I believe we still are a 10-2 team and win the EAST as it's still very attainable.

Thoughts VN?

GO VOLS I'm still behind you!

:loco:

Tennesseeduke
Click to expand...
I understand your point but I have to disagree with basically off of that butch has done this on a yearly basis and is yet to be corrected. He's all speak man I'm fed up with inexcusable losses like these. Tennessee was hands down the better team on both sides of the ball
 
#11
#11
My take on Monday morning reality is that we're probably going to finish 6-6 and go BSC because Butch gets to continue his $hit show again next year.
 
#14
#14
Vandy, UK and South Carolina are very capable of beating us OP. Vandy just knocked off a pretty solid K-state team. SC looked like the best team in the east and UK beat them. UGA is on another level. LSU is still a good football team, they just got beat down by another really good football team. Make no mistake about it, MSU is the 2nd best team in the west.
 
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#16
#16
I don't put the blame of the players' mistakes. True, they made some, like the unsportman after the TD or all the stupid penalites. I believe those are correctable with some experience and practice. The coordinators called those stupid play to put the players in those bad positions to make most of those mistakes. But ultimately, the head coach made the game plan with the coordinators. The head coach makes decisions during the game. So even if the players and the coordinators/positional coaches are correctable, the head coach is beyond fixable. Even if the recruiting stays strong, this HC will continue to lose critical games. All the talent does is to keep this team above average. The team will continue to win against average teams. But this coach will continue to lead this talented team to lose games with similar talent level or better coaching.
 
#17
#17
wtmvol said:
They were a playoff team, right?
Click to expand...

Yes. But we had the game won...and still managed to lose.

You have to beat teams that you actually beat...

Having to even type that out is a total mind f*** lolol.

But it's true. When you pin Oklahoma 14 down in the 4th. You have to finish the game. That could have been a HUGE win. But instead it's an ink stain. This past weekend would have been MONUMENTAL to fans, a win in Gainesville would have gotten Butch carried out of the stadium on his players shoulders. He would have directed the band.

But now it's just another..."well then...get to hear every tv host trash the team all weak and get to see Frank's hailmary pass 19 times a day. Yayyyyyy. Thanks Butch."

Too many of those.
 
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#18
#18
Between the injury epidemic and poor coaching, it will not happen. We will struggle to win 7.
 
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#19
#19
Listened to Coach Mathews this morning...Bottom line, the loss is on both the play calling and the execution. Throwing the fade ball on first and goal, wrong call. Should have run it 4times. Kelly would have gotten it done. The pick was on the WR. The Kelly drop on 3d down pass over the middle. The final play (not a hail Mary) Wrong Call... Martin does not play quarters well. Insisting on keeping Jumper in over Bituli. We left the win out there...good news, the East is still pretty mediocre.
 
#20
#20
These are my observations. I don't post much. It is probably TLDR, but these things cannot be expressed in 140 characters on twitter. Some facts mixed in with my personal opinion/observations.

I went to my 1st UT game in Neyland 60 years ago. So you might say, I’ve followed my fair share of Volunteer football and have seen some really good coaching and some really bad coaching.

This is not some emotional reaction to, yet another stupid loss to the gators. This loss did make me say WTF and caused me to look closer at Jones’ SEC record. Over the years, I have primarily gauged my opinion of UT coaches based on their success in winning SEC games. The SEC East Division and SEC Conference championships are my measure of a Tennessee coach’s success and viability. Only after a coach is winning in the SEC, do I start grading them on OOC wins, especially the 1 good P5 OOC game we play and any Bowl game we play. If you can't win your SEC games, the other stuff is not very significant.

An ugly win is ALWAYS better than a pretty loss. Kind of like golf … who cares how you got that par, it is still a par. Problem is, Butch can’t seem to even get an ugly bogey.

Butch is starting his 5th year. So let’s look at his performance in the SEC:

SEC W/L OVERALL: 14/19
In other words, Butch has won 14 out of 33 SEC games. Let that sink in for a minute.
By year -
• 2013: 2/6 (He won 2 out of 8 games) <-- Gave him a pass, cause he followed Dooley.
• 2014: 3/5 (He won 3 out of 8 games)
• 2015: 5/3 (He won 5 out of 8 games) <-- Here is where I thought, OK, Butch is improving maybe he can handle it.
• 2016: 4/4 (He won 4 out of 8 games) <-- Regression, maybe he can NOT handle it.
• 2017: 0/1 <-- No use beating this dead horse.

SEC WEST W/L: 0/8
Butch has NEVER beat a SEC team from the West !!
Besides losing to Bama 4 times; we lost to Ole Miss, Ark, Auburn and Tx A&M.

SEC EAST W/L: 14-11
By Team -
• Dawgs: 2/2
• Gators: 1/4
• Cocks: 3/1
• Wildcats: 4/0
• Vandy: 2/2 (The last coach that lost more than ONE time to Vandy was before General Neyland, something like around 1925 (not sure). Butch has lost to Vandy TWICE in four years !!!)
• Mizzou: 2/2

Jones’ SEC record does not cut it for me, especially given the level of talent they have recruited. We have some fantastic talent. Jones and his coaches can recruit, but they cannot seem to develop and/or utilize that talent effectively. Look at what Nathan Peterman did when he transferred to Pitt. Riley Feguson @ Memphis beat a pretty solid UCLA team this weekend. Jalen Hurd, an example of poor leadership from the Head coach. Alvin Kamara, was never fully utilized. A crime to let a talent at that level be so underutilized.

To give you some historical perspective from my point of view, here is the record of Coach Bill Battle.
http://tennesseevols.wikia.com/wiki/Bill_Battle

His first 2-3 years he had some talented players recruited by Doug Dickey and still came after Dickey left. Check out the rosters.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/tennessee/1970-roster.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/tennessee/1971-roster.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/tennessee/1972-roster.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/tennessee/1973-roster.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/tennessee/1974-roster.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/tennessee/1975-roster.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/tennessee/1976-roster.html


Bottom-line, Battle was a good guy (for a bammer), likeable and not a bad coach. His recruiting talent/depth fell off and he started losing. Compare his SEC record with Butch’s. We let Battle go. He was not cutting it.

I will say again, excluding Dooley, that Butch Jones and HIS staff seem to be the worst in developing and utilizing the talent they have recruited; and the most ill prepared and incompetent game day coaches that I have seen at UT. Stupid stuff should be the exception, not the rule. Butch seems to have a penchant for stupid stuff.

Bottom-line, Jones is a good guy; scholastics and graduation rate positive; is sort of likeable but a little uptight; a good recruiter; and the players play hard for him. He is not a very good game day coach and he does not (or cannot) develop the players. He does not win the games he should, nor win the occasional game he should not. IMO, Butch is not cutting it. (See Bill Battle).

I want a coach that gets his program to the level that consistently has no more than 1 or 2 SEC losses; is winning Divisions championships; competing in SEC championships and winning one from time to time; makes the Playoff and/or is playing in the Big Bowl games; and DOES NOT lose to Vandy or Kentucky, fricking EVER.

I have been, and will always be a VOL. I will continue to keep my season tickets and go to the games until I am no longer physically able. Whether or not I like the coach or think he is incompetent, I will always support the student-athletes who chose to play at my Alma Mater.

Go VOLS !!!
 
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#21
#21
One thing that pisses me off about Butch is that he tries way too hard playing not to lose instead of trying to play to win.

He's not aggressive, intelligent, or hungry enough to want to win in the SEC. You can come up with all the excuses you want but it's now year 5, and nothing has changed.

1. We've yet to win the East with all the talent that Butch has brought in.

2. Injuries have always been an issue since Butch has arrived.

3. He continues to make excuses for his piss poor coaching and wants to blame it on others.

He's had plenty of chances to change and he's yet to do so. If you're paid to win ball games, you should do it right the first time. The worst part about this is we still have fans who continue to defend the guy after the pathetic loss to UF.

Like I've said before, I still appreciate all the good things he's done. I've tried & tried to support Butch, hoping that he'd change. I don't personally hate him nor want anything bad to happen to the guy. I just think his time here is over with.

He's brought in the talent and now it's time for a real HC to put all the puzzle pieces together. He's lost majority of the fanbase and the only way he can win us back is if he wins the East which is very unlikely at this point.

It's not being a Negavol. It's called facing reality when there's a reason too.
 
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#22
#22
Poppa T said:
These are my observations. I don't post much. It is probably TLDR, but these things cannot be expressed in 140 characters on twitter. Some facts mixed in with my personal opinion/observations.
Click to expand...

Good stuff. Post more often.
 
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#23
#23
What's most depressing for me about Butch is that UK is the one team he has dominated. Vandy, Missouri, and USCjr have all found ways to beat UT but UK still shows up and gets its ass beat by 30 or 40. Just sad.
 
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#24
#24
LittleCat said:
What's most depressing for me about Butch is that UK is the one team he has dominated. Vandy, Missouri, and USCjr have all found ways to beat IT, but UK still shows up and gets its ass beat by 30 or 40. Just sad.
Click to expand...

Watched y'all beat USCe the other night. This might be your year, unless Butch get his sheetz together. Here's to hoping you put an azz whoopin' on gators.
 
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#25
#25
Booker512 said:
The problem is, right now Tennessee has enough respect to be a great win for coaches like Muschamp, Smart, Ogeron, Stoops, Mason....ok? We are still seen as a perennial contender for the east...to some degree. Like it wouldn't be some insane thing if we actually limped into Atlanta, that's what I mean....

But, we have coaches that can't seem to put all the pieces together for a full 60 minutes. I don't know about you guys, but being down or in a dog fight for 48 minutes a game to try to rumble back in the last 10 min or force OT is really not my favorite style of football....

But when you have a reputation like that, opposing coaches will put their cross hairs on you. They know having big plays or going for it on 4th down 2-4 times a game has realllyyyyyyyy worked out for other coaches against us. So it encourages it to happen more. So expect to see Smart run the ball up the middle on 4th and 3. Expect to see a lot of over the middle bombs being thrown against us with 10 seconds to go instead of them just running the ball, getting into field goal range and tying the game up for OT.

When you invite those things. You'll get those things.
Click to expand...

Spot on.
 
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