The Minimum Wage: What's the Big Deal?

[T-TownVol]

Your opinion is the only one that could possibly be correct, right? So obviously it is hard to comprehend why anyone could think you are arrogant and condescending.

I mean....it is his JOB to point out all of OUR harmful/hateful ideas........

 

[volprof]

Your opinion is the only one that could possibly be correct, right? So obviously it is hard to comprehend why anyone could think you are arrogant and condescending.

Some would say racists, sexists, and those who blame everyone else personally but themselves for society's problems are arrogant.

But no, not you. You blame the guy who calls those guys out.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

But the market doesn't decide. The market is often a myth. If the free functioning market as a panacea was more than myth, the nineteenth century would have been a triumph. As it was, the nineteenth century was one long, giant experiment in how the free market as moral is a myth.

You're going to get your undies in a wad over paid maternity leave? Really? Like you're somehow loosing some of your freedoms? Like I told tums, if you want your darned precious anarchist freedom, go move to the Alaskan wilderness. The rest of us who live in the real world have a society to run. We're the only nation on Earth, along with Papua New Guinea and Lesotho, that doesn't offer paid maternity leave, and it is costing us money everyday.

As I said, the dustbin, it awaits. That or the Alaskan wilderness, where you don't have to worry about cooperating with others, taxes, or anything but your food supply and shelter.

:lolabove::lolabove::lolabove:

 

[theutvolunteers]

actually its kinda the opposite. We doubled supply of workers without doubling demand. Women were already buying stuff so them being in the work force didn't increase demand. And most of the time they were going to work because they needed the money and there was a void.

I have seen lots of numbers for the value of a stay at home mom. This one seems really high, but the low estimates start at around 60,000.

so depending on their wage you could say the average family is losing a fair amount of value with mom working out of the house.

and as you have pointed out in European countries with a dwindling population they need someone to fill the void. They need more women working than we do. Therefore the value of an extra worker isn't as high here as it is there. obviously in high paying positions it is certainly worth it but at the floor level it simply isn't.

Cooking, cleaning, and bill paying shouldn't be in this. My wife and I both work. We split these daily functions.

 

[LouderVol]

But weren't the women just being consumers through their husbands' wages?

Your chart is interesting, and I have seen other studies about what a homemaker's work is worth, provided it was treated like other jobs. The biggest thing I think that could make it worth more for a woman not to work outside the home regards childcare expenses. Nonetheless, much of this work is going to get done anyhow, whether the woman works outside the home or not, so I don't know that it is a perfect way of assessing whether or not a woman should work outside the home. I think this matter becomes even more complicated when you bring in college costs. Granted, not everyone will go to college, but it cannot hurt for two incomes to help its funding, rather than one income and/or the state/feds/loans.

to the bolded, what is a married woman with a husband who already works going to increase in buying so much to justify double the income? Maybe a car, some clothes, another laptop/ipad and..... not the double for the entire market that double the workforce would offset. think about when women joined the workforce. WWII, Americans were away at war and Europeans were dead and they needed any workforce they could get.

as someone else said, I am not for chaining women to the stove (how would they wash my clothes if they couldn't leave the kitchen?) but America can afford for them to not be in the workforce, not enough jobs. And for the record in the future if I could be a stay at home dad I would/will gladly jump on that chance.

to your second paragraph isn't your premise that the mother and father should be able to be at home to take care of their kids? If staying at home for 3 months has a societal value I would think staying at home for 4-5 years (kindergarten or 1st grade) would have even better outcomes. and that would still leave plenty of time to save for college but that's a different topic, staying away from it. and as marcus pointed out with your low income jobs it is going to be almost a wash on child care costs vs minimum wage, so a family wouldn't be losing anything there.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

The chart is trying to make a point but it's kind of silly in that it assigns too much stuff as a job or that there is no substitute other than a professional CEO/psychologist/facilities manager etc. If my wife works we're not hiring a chef, we'll split the work. But there is certainly value in what women do at home. Does it make sense to send mom out to work when daycare will cost $1k a month? And what's the intangible value to being around your kids vs being raised by someone else 40 hours a week? I do think there's a point where it makes a lot more sense to simply stay at home.

Dwight: Maybe you do. Hi. I’m Dwight. Sales is really not so hard ok? It’s paper. We have it and they want it so bad they are willing to pay for it.
Andy: Jim?
Jim: Well it’s not that easy. It’s kind of sometimes difficult.
Dwight: It’s the second easiest job in the world. [to camera] Being a mom.

 

[LouderVol]

Cooking, cleaning, and bill paying shouldn't be in this. My wife and I both work. We split these daily functions.

this definitely assumes the mother takes one these roles herself. and if i was to nit pick it I would also take psychologist too. my number would be way closer to 60,000 than 110,000. but this was the easiest presented information. everything else i was finding in two minutes of googling was just itemized numbers and not easy on the eyes/those short on time. and imo it doesn't put a number on the "babysitting" part of it. or at least not near enough time to it if you consider teacher that time.

the reason I used the graphic was to show that a stay at home mom has an inherent value. and considering this was a conversation grounded on the numbers/costs we needed a point to talk about.

not being defensive, just saying this was a talking point and not necessarily something I agreed with.

 

[LouderVol]

The chart is trying to make a point but it's kind of silly in that it assigns too much stuff as a job or that there is no substitute other than a professional CEO/psychologist/facilities manager etc. If my wife works we're not hiring a chef, we'll split the work. But there is certainly value in what women do at home. Does it make sense to send mom out to work when daycare will cost $1k a month? And what's the intangible value to being around your kids vs being raised by someone else 40 hours a week? I do think there's a point where it makes a lot more sense to simply stay at home.

Dwight: Maybe you do. Hi. I’m Dwight. Sales is really not so hard ok? It’s paper. We have it and they want it so bad they are willing to pay for it.
Andy: Jim?
Jim: Well it’s not that easy. It’s kind of sometimes difficult.
Dwight: It’s the second easiest job in the world. [to camera] Being a mom.

pretty sure that is on the cheap side of things. remember we care about our kids, we don't want them in day care fighting rings. (tongue in cheek before someone blows a gasket)

 

[southgatevol]

Some would say racists, sexists, and those who blame everyone else personally but themselves for society's problems are arrogant.

But no, not you. You blame the guy who calls those guys out.

Find a post I have made with racists, sexists, and personal blame suggestions. Thanks in advance.

 

[Sin City Vol]

How I see this thread

 

[Sin City Vol]

Or this

 

[Sin City Vol]

Or this

Hmmm

 

[volprof]

Find a post I have made with racists, sexists, and personal blame suggestions. Thanks in advance.

Never said that.

What I said was that you were coming to their aid in your head-over-heels attempt to portray me as the arrogant one.

But, let's all be frank here: we're all arrogant. It's just that some of us are racist, sexist, hateful arrogant bastards and some of us are just arrogant bastards.

 

[tumscalcium]

Well, you can share that with the other 115 year olds over the barrels of butter and biscuits at the country store.

In the meanwhile, I'll be out dealing in facts and saving money.

You have not addressed how this will save money for everyone. You mentioned big businesses and not having to train others and keeping good employees. Great, if companies want to and can then awesome. This has been addressed. You laughed at the mere mention of small businesses having to deal with it, thus deflecting and not understanding the reality. You need to sell us on how the chick at McDonald's getting paid to be on maternity leave will save everyone money. If it's taxpayer funded then it sure as hell won't save money by paying people to not work. You still haven't mentioned how long this leave needs to be and how often.

You have made your conclusion and only bring up little tidbits you think help your position. You're thinking with your feelings and not with your head. This is a common problem among libs. You need to address every last mf'ing detail. Rich, middle, poor, added welfare, etc...

All this to address a problem that isn't a problem. We have too many people as it is.

 

[1972 Grad]

You sound like 1972. He's always carrying on about how "superior" I think I am.

What you fail to comprehend, for some reason, is that I never attack posters who treat others with respect or who don't represent very harmful and/or hateful ideas. I couldn't care less if some posters here disagree with me ideologically. Where I get upset is when some of you make sexist remarks, racist comments, or other hateful posts, or directly insult other posters personally, like blaming them directly for all of society's ills.

If this gives the impression of me "feeling superior," then so be it. I wouldn't expect a bunch of knuckleheads like yourselves to understand this anyhow.

I now await 1972's next post about how I'm such an arrogant person for unfairly criticizing Dick Cheney.

Nah! I'm staying out of this one. The others are doing a good job, and don't need my help, and you already know how I feel.

 

[FLVOL_79]

I'd like to see businesses, small and large, offer transferable retirement investment accounts.

Well, I guess people could be less stupid and open their own.............but that might be asking too much..

 

[AM64]

And I too thank you for your service, but I get tired of your persistent nihilistic *****ing about everyone else who uses government funds.

If you didn't ***** so much about everyone else using government money, I wouldn't criticize you or your service history.

So, you served in the military. You think that makes you better than everyone else. It doesn't.

There's quite a difference between working for and being paid by a government and simply receiving government benefits - particularly unearned government benefits. I have a particularly hard time dealing with criticism for military service, though. Perhaps it is bias; because in my family it is what we did; and, yeah, I'd have to say that it means someone who served in the military was willing to risk his or her life for anyone here. I'll just leave it there. There's much more to say, but I honestly don't know how.

 

[FLVOL69]

There's quite a difference between working for and being paid by a government and simply receiving government benefits - particularly unearned government benefits. I have a particularly hard time dealing with criticism for military service, though. Perhaps it is bias; because in my family it is what we did; and, yeah, I'd have to say that it means someone who served in the military was willing to risk his or her life for anyone here. I'll just leave it there. There's much more to say, but I honestly don't know how.

Do you have any crayons?

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

There's quite a difference between working for and being paid by a government and simply receiving government benefits - particularly unearned government benefits. I have a particularly hard time dealing with criticism for military service, though. Perhaps it is bias; because in my family it is what we did; and, yeah, I'd have to say that it means someone who served in the military was willing to risk his or her life for anyone here. I'll just leave it there. There's much more to say, but I honestly don't know how.

That said it pretty well sir.

 

[AM64]

Rock solid post. Again. Fast becoming one of the best posters here.

My wife has 2 part time Jobs but is quick to tell pepole that her career is a homemaker. Takes great pride in it. Laughs at feminists. She is 33 and a dying breed...young women today can't cook, sew,or take care of a home. I tell my teenage son all the time that he is going to have a really hard time finding a real woman. I work 60 hours a week most weeks. I don't wash clothes. I don't cook. I don't go to the grocery store. Ever. I don't need to... I have a real woman. I wash dishes frequently, because I want to and I love my wife. I vacuum..because it's a power tool and I enjoy it. Some would call me a sexist pig...my wife thinks I am a real man. That's all that matters. Because of my hard work she is class mom at school. Goes on every field trip. Handles every class party. Takes my kids to and from school. If she worked full time, we would have more money. It's simply better for my kids and my home that she doesnt. So we don't drive braND new vehicles. We don't wear designer clothes, or take lavish vacations. Those things aren't important to us. My kids are. Unless my son needs help, my kids homework is done by the time I get home from work, because mom is there to make sure of it.
Some would say we live a backwards lifestyle, not keeping up with the times. I think a young man today that settles for a career woman who can't cook, clean, properly run a home is making a big mistake. Money isn't all that matters. FwIw both my kids are straight A students and neither has ever been in any trouble outside our home. I don't think that is a coincidence. I think it's an expected result of a conscious effort.

Thank you for the comment. I had to chuckle a bit because I've been washing dishes. Hopefully the impeller for the dishwasher will get here tomorrow, so I can have it running again! Now as far as cooking goes - you know starvation just happens once - cooking is forever. To me cooking is like chemistry labs - something I absolutely detested (starvation is preferable), so I'm really glad I had the good sense to find a wife and a great cook in one.

Our children are our future - not meaning they will take care of us, but that they are the people who will or won't keep this country going. Apparently yours and mine could, but I'm not so hopeful about so many of the others. Teaching values is something parents have to do; it's far too important to relegate to others.

 

[SergeantVol]

VolProf I think you are not understanding where some of these guys are coming from. Government regulation means more government to enforce said regulations. Since government does not produce anything, their only "product" is the monopoly of violence. In the end, more regulation = more government = more force/coercion/violence against citizens.

If companies truly want to remain competitive, they will offer better incentive packages. My company offers paid maternity leave, pay differential for reserve aervice, and many other perks. They value employees as intellectual capital and go above and beyond to ensure they are satisfied. They see a return on their investment because satisfies employees are happy employees. In the end, if a company wants the best they will offer the best. They don't need government to force them to do it.

 

[volger]

minimum wage = minimum skills

Or they lost a good job and had to settle for whatever they could at that time. Maybe 2 MW jobs to do whatever it takes to make ends meet. Some people are too proud, or don't know how to manipulate the system for their handout.

 

[Biopsyman]

I'd like to see businesses, small and large, offer transferable retirement investment accounts.

Well, I guess people could be less stupid and open their own.............but that might be asking too much..

People wake up one day and retire after 40 years of working with no planning and then complain about not be prepared...

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Or they lost a good job and had to settle for whatever they could at that time. Maybe 2 MW jobs to do whatever it takes to make ends meet. Some people are too proud, or don't know how to manipulate the system for their handout.

What percentage of fly slingers would you say fit that category?

 

[FLVOL_79]

People wake up one day and retire after 40 years of working with no planning and then complain about not be prepared...

I should have started saving earlier like the adults said.., but I'll be aight.