The level of blindness to the talent problem here

#26
#26
perico said:
2 losing seasons in four years at UT is unacceptable.

Under Fulmer's last four years:

2005: 5-6
2006: 9-4
2007: 10-4
2008- 5-7

We lost 4 games each year- UNACCEPTABLE

Bowl Record under Fulmer since 2000: 3 wins 4 losses
UNACCEPTABLE

Record Against Florida since 2000 under Fulmer: 3-6

Record Against Alabama since 2000 under Fulmer: 5-4

Record Against UGA since 2000 under Fulmer: 4-5

Record Against Vandy since 2000 under Fulmer: 8-1

All UNACCEPTABLE

Sec Championships under Fulmer since 2000: 0
National Championships under Fulmer since 2000: 0
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i would like to see how they spin this one? nice post. the facts are in the numbers... the pumkin let his foot off the gas. the numbers show it and the lack of teaching the tallent shows is those numbers.
 
#27
#27
cbrentv3 said:
i would like to see how they spin this one? nice post. the facts are in the numbers... the pumkin let his foot off the gas. the numbers show it and the lack of teaching the tallent shows is those numbers.
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I can go even further for Fulmer:

Number of All SEC quarterbacks since 1999 (T. Martin): 0
Number of All SEC WRs since 2004: 1 (Meachem)
Number of all SEC TBs since 2004: 2 (Foster, Houston)
Number of All Americans since 2004: 1, maybe 2 (can't remember if Meachem was AA)

Number of losses at home since 2004: 11
Record against Ranked Teams since 2004: 6-16

*All under Fulmer. This years games not included.

** Lucas Taylor might've been 2nd team All SEC his jr. year. i can't remember... but if he was, you can put that at 2.
 
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#28
#28
JohnnyBall said:
There was a 4 point "talent gap" between Tennessee and AU...and a 10 point gap between us and UF...mathematically speaking

Or is the coaching better now??:rolleyes:
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Inferior talented teams beat superior teams all the time. Watch a few of Boise St's bowl games.
 
#29
#29
perico said:
2 losing seasons in four years at UT is unacceptable.

Under Fulmer's last four years:

2005: 5-6
2006: 9-4
2007: 10-4
2008- 5-7

We lost 4 games each year- UNACCEPTABLE

Bowl Record under Fulmer since 2000: 3 wins 4 losses
UNACCEPTABLE

Record Against Florida since 2000 under Fulmer: 3-6

Record Against Alabama since 2000 under Fulmer: 5-4

Record Against UGA since 2000 under Fulmer: 4-5

Record Against Vandy since 2000 under Fulmer: 8-1

All UNACCEPTABLE

Sec Championships under Fulmer since 2000: 0
National Championships under Fulmer since 2000: 0
Click to expand...

It appears you missed my point. I wasn't trying to defend Fulmer, just pointing out it's a bit intellectually dishonest to argue last year we had the talent and not the coaching but this year we've got the coaching but not the talent.

I think Kiffin will do fine if given the chance.
 
#30
#30
hndog609 said:
It appears you missed my point. I wasn't trying to defend Fulmer, just pointing out it's a bit intellectually dishonest to argue last year we had the talent and not the coaching but this year we've got the coaching but not the talent.

I think Kiffin will do fine if given the chance.
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Well said.
 
#31
#31
You can throw rivals numbers around all you want. If you dont recognize the talent gap we have at the QB and WR positions then you need to focus a little better on game days. The avg star ratings might look good. Sometimes rivals rankings are a 'miss.' And it just happen that our last 3 classes have missed badly on some star rankings.
 
#32
#32
Uh, Gerald Jones was a pretty good player in his younger days. These freshman receivers were heralded. Our offensive line, running backs, tight ends, and entire defense seem perfectly capable of playing in the SEC. So the question is do we have a talent deficiency to the point that we are less capable on offense than EVERY OTHER TEAM IN THE SEC(Vandy, MISS ST, Kentucky included), or are we just poorly coaching or poorly utilizing the players on offense? I refuse to believe our talent on offense(outside of Crompton) is the worst in the league. That is a cop out.
 
#33
#33
hndog609 said:
It appears you missed my point. I wasn't trying to defend Fulmer, just pointing out it's a bit intellectually dishonest to argue last year we had the talent and not the coaching but this year we've got the coaching but not the talent.

I think Kiffin will do fine if given the chance.
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True.

The problem is that the blame for our terrible talent last year lies squarely on Fulmer's shoulders. AND our lack of talent this year.... lies squarely on Fulmer's shoulders.

Either way, it goes back to Fulmer. I was one of the ones who said we didn't have any talent last year (and the ironic thing is that I'm not a hardcore Fulmer basher).
 
#34
#34
therickbol said:
You can throw rivals numbers around all you want. If you dont recognize the talent gap we have at the QB and WR positions then you need to focus a little better on game days. The avg star ratings might look good. Sometimes rivals rankings are a 'miss.' And it just happen that our last 3 classes have missed badly on some star rankings.
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If your talking about Alabama and Florida I would agree with you. But when did our talent level fall off that we cant compete with Auburn or UCLA? Do you realize what your saying? This sounds like something a Vandy fan would say, not a vol fan.
 
#35
#35
oklavol said:
If your talking about Alabama and Florida I would agree with you. But when did our talent level fall off that we cant compete with Auburn or UCLA? Do you realize what your saying? This sounds like something a Vandy fan would say, not a vol fan.
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So if we swapped our QB and WR's with Auburn you think Auburn would still win? That would keep our defense from being on the field for way too long. And even with our deficiencies on special teams we would still have won that game with those positions swapped.
 
#36
#36
oklavol said:
Go compare UT's recruiting rankings with Auburn and UCLA over the last 5 years. I'll bet we have more talent on paper. Just saying. I think the talent gap thing is overblown.
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The key word is 'on paper' and I'm sure we don't even match up to Auburn 'on paper' the past couple of years. The last big class before this current one was Berry's class and outside of Berry and Walker there's not a lot of difference makers on the field. The 2008 class was pathetic and it got worse when the marque player was kicked off the team.

There's no legit play makers at WR, we can't even fill an o-line with 3* players, no promising prospects at QB, no veteran depth at LB.

We've been playing on the talent edge for a few years now and it finally caught up to us last year and this year may be even worse given the seniors we lost.
 
#37
#37
oklavol said:
If your talking about Alabama and Florida I would agree with you. But when did our talent level fall off that we cant compete with Auburn or UCLA? Do you realize what your saying? This sounds like something a Vandy fan would say, not a vol fan.
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This.^
 
#38
#38
Many of those "studs" TN recruited are no longer with the program because they were thugs. It will get better, we just have to be patient. I hate losing too but I think given time we will be just fine.
 
#39
#39
Titanic said:
Uh, Gerald Jones was a pretty good player in his younger days. These freshman receivers were heralded. Our offensive line, running backs, tight ends, and entire defense seem perfectly capable of playing in the SEC. So the question is do we have a talent deficiency to the point that we are less capable on offense than EVERY OTHER TEAM IN THE SEC(Vandy, MISS ST, Kentucky included), or are we just poorly coaching or poorly utilizing the players on offense? I refuse to believe our talent on offense(outside of Crompton) is the worst in the league. That is a cop out.
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Are you kidding me about the offensive line? Really? The Freshman receivers may turn out OK, but they're Freshman. GJ might have show promise in his younger days but he seemed to have lost it. I haven't seen many arguing that we are the worst in the SEC but we are definitely middle of the pack at best. This staff refuses to make short cuts to accommodate the talent level and is forcing everyone to play up to the level they expect. I like that as it will be a positive for the younger players who'll be in the system for the next few years.
 
#40
#40
If we swapped QB's with Auburn we would be no worse than 4-1. Guys Crompton is a good kid but he is just horrible. Granted our receivers arent great either, but he is probably the worst starting QB in D1.
 
#41
#41
oklavol said:
If your talking about Alabama and Florida I would agree with you. But when did our talent level fall off that we cant compete with Auburn or UCLA? Do you realize what your saying? This sounds like something a Vandy fan would say, not a vol fan.
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Lets see, Auburn, it's been four + years and four losses in a row since we've been able to beat them.

UCLA, it's been two years. We probably had a better team last year to match up with them but the coaching killed us.

Perhaps there's something I'm missing?
 
#42
#42
perico said:
True.

The problem is that the blame for our terrible talent last year lies squarely on Fulmer's shoulders. AND our lack of talent this year.... lies squarely on Fulmer's shoulders.

Either way, it goes back to Fulmer. I was one of the ones who said we didn't have any talent last year (and the ironic thing is that I'm not a hardcore Fulmer basher).
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I wasn't a Fulmer basher either, but in hind sight we are looking pretty average in talent and depth and ingrained bad habits and that is on Fulmer.
 
#43
#43
VolinDawgland said:
I wasn't a Fulmer basher either, but in hind sight we are looking pretty average in talent and depth and ingrained bad habits and that is on Fulmer.
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Referring to the roster left behind by The Fired Coach as "average" is an insult to average teams.
 
#44
#44
I can count the number of posters on VN, that before the season had us pegged for 6 wins, or less. And most of those, hate CLK.

How did the majority of US think this team was capable of winning 7 to 9 games this year if AU and UCLA has more talent than we do?
 
#45
#45
Well, the "wildcard" in our pre-season excitement was counting on JC to exhibit dramatic improvement under the new staff. It's not necessarily a knock on the coaching now, as I believe he just "doesn't have it" in crunch time.

Let's put it this way: when he's had time to pass, and when receivers do get open, and he misses them (often badly), then how do you blame it on the line and receivers? To me, that means that even with studs up front and NFL-caliber receivers, he's still going to be errant and a terrible decision-maker.

I'm not lumping it all on the QB, as we do have glaring deficiencies elsewhere, but he is a necessary component of any successful team. How's this: name me a better-than-average team with less talent at the position.
 
#46
#46
I do think Crompton has improved. It's crazy how bad he was last year.
 
#47
#47
Marginal improvement from last years offense would make us 4-1.

Im not expecting dramatic for a while.
 
#48
#48
oklavol said:
Go compare UT's recruiting rankings with Auburn and UCLA over the last 5 years. I'll bet we have more talent on paper. Just saying. I think the talent gap thing is overblown.
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Wrong, we did a poor job of coaching talent so therefore the talent gap is not overblown. Also compare the amount of players drafted in the NFL the past 3 yrs compared to the other SEC schools. We have a talent deficit if you open your eyes.
 
#49
#49
BeecherVol said:
I can count the number of posters on VN, that before the season had us pegged for 6 wins, or less. And most of those, hate CLK.

How did the majority of US think this team was capable of winning 7 to 9 games this year if AU and UCLA has more talent than we do?
Click to expand...

At this point I would be happy with 6 wins.
 
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