The laughable recruiting paradox of Butch Haters

[JonGrudensAgent]

This is a decent response. But:
1. I never said I expected our record to be better next year. I do think it's ridiculous though to expect 6-6, which is the WBIR Negavol Forecast for 2017, though.
2. Jalen Hurts, Drew Lock, Luke DelRio, the kid currently at SC, and several others say hi.
3. Though I agree to some degree they've struggled on gameday, their ineptitude led us to 8/soon 9 wins this year, -and they are not going to be MORE inept, especially if the rumored changes come thru.

Therefore, I pronounce all forecasts of less than 8 wins to be NegaBS to be totally disregarded.

But again, that's not what I asked. What I asked is, in a nutshell, " hey Negas, why are you changing your story?"

To answer your question as it were from your original post, your entire premise is severely flawed to put it kindly.

No one...not the negaVols, posiVols, true Vol fans, Grudenites, Dooley Groupies, or any other cute moniker you can come up with... NO ONE had expectations for a championship or New Years Day bowl Jones' first season.

Logic would dictate however in an era when roughly 80 teams can make a bowl that 6-6 and attaining bowl eligibility shouldn't be that difficult of a goal even during a transition period.

Jones had 3 gimmes on the schedule with WKY, South AL, and Austin Peay. Vandy and KY should always be a game where the Vols are favored. Getting 1 more victory out of UGA, SC, or Missouri shouldn't be that difficult and they managed to beat SC. Should have been well on their way to bowl eligibility.

You want to know what has changed from 2013 to 2016 in terms of expectations? Absolutely nothing. History has repeated itself albeit with a better group of players this season. And that's exactly why so many are upset with the outcome of this season and don't expect much going forward.

What we saw in 2013 is the same thing we saw in 2016, Jones and his team let Vanderbilt dictate their bowl situation. We saw a coach who can't get his team past Vanderbilt with clear and attainable goals in sight.

 

[daj2576]

Lol. Not your best effort Daj.

I get it, only facts that fit the narrative are allowed.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

I don't want to be negative anymore but a lot of people are over looking Tech. They just beat Georgia if Tennessee played them now they win in a rout. I hope Tennessee gets better foundamentally otherwise it could get ugly.

The saving grace is that the defense will have an entire off season to prepare for that option offense.

 

['Boro-vol]

I'm considering a thread entitled "The amusing self-importance of the Cult of Butch" or maybe "How to make football mediocrity a lauded achievement in 4 short years."

 

[KBVol]

No one said this. You are arguing against air

Correct. There were virtually no expectations for that 2013 team. Zero. Everyone knew that Jones was in year one of a huge rebuilding year. I think most were hopeful he could win 6 games and just get to a bowl game. The team was given a standing ovation for a close loss vs Georgia and celebrated for an upset win over SCar. The only disappointments I recall was the poor OL play given that we had 4-5 NFL players there and the loss to a very average Vandy team that kept us from being bowl eligible. No one, and I mean no one, expected 9 wins in 2013/Jones' first season. Hell, how many called for 9 wins in 2014?

 

[supervol01]

No one said this. You are arguing against air

It's called a straw man argument, and a bad one at that.

 

[Behr]

Butch is exactly who he is. An above average recruiter and a below average to average coach.

Why do you guys even act like it's anything different?

Who you talking to?

 

[Hairy Vols]

To answer your question as it were from your original post, your entire premise is severely flawed to put it kindly.

No one...not the negaVols, posiVols, true Vol fans, Grudenites, Dooley Groupies, or any other cute moniker you can come up with... NO ONE had expectations for a championship or New Years Day bowl Jones' first season.

Logic would dictate however in an era when roughly 80 teams can make a bowl that 6-6 and attaining bowl eligibility shouldn't be that difficult of a goal even during a transition period.

Jones had 3 gimmes on the schedule with WKY, South AL, and Austin Peay. Vandy and KY should always be a game where the Vols are favored. Getting 1 more victory out of UGA, SC, or Missouri shouldn't be that difficult and they managed to beat SC. Should have been well on their way to bowl eligibility.

You want to know what has changed from 2013 to 2016 in terms of expectations? Absolutely nothing. History has repeated itself albeit with a better group of players this season. And that's exactly why so many are upset with the outcome of this season and don't expect much going forward.

What we saw in 2013 is the same thing we saw in 2016, Jones and his team let Vanderbilt dictate their bowl situation. We saw a coach who can't get his team past Vanderbilt with clear and attainable goals in sight.

Not that I disagree with you. But look at it like this. Vanderbilt in the past 6 seasons, including this one has a record of 37-38. Our record in the past 6 seasons is 39-35... Please explain to me how our record and current state of the program indicates anything other than us being on the same level as them. We are a little worse than we used to be historically and they are over achieving Historicly compared the Vanderbilt of old... So this mass assumption you are doing making losing to Vanderbilt this inexcusable atrocity is silly. No we should never lose to them, and first year for Butch is excusable, this year it was not. But Clemson shouldn't be losing Pittsburgh either, but sometimes **** happens.

 

[DERELICK_MY_VOLS]

The off-season national champion fans started early!

You guys love to squawk about all the amazing things that don't actually equal anything tangible. Forgetting completely that when Butch was given multiple opportunities to take the next step, he choked. Butch has continued to bring in quality players. The problem is that he doesn't know what to do with them.

Butch is exactly who he is. An above average recruiter and a below average to average coach.

Why do you guys even act like it's anything different?

 

[05_never_again]

Not that I disagree with you. But look at it like this. Vanderbilt in the past 6 seasons, including this one has a record of 37-38. Our record in the past 6 seasons is 39-35... Please explain to me how our record and current state of the program indicates anything other than us being on the same level as them. We are a little worse than we used to be historically and they are over achieving Historicly compared the Vanderbilt of old... So this mass assumption you are doing making losing to Vanderbilt this inexcusable atrocity is silly. No we should never lose to them, and first year for Butch is excusable, this year it was not. But Clemson shouldn't be losing Pittsburgh either, but sometimes **** happens.

Yeah...that was also their only loss.

You can't look at just a single game in isolation. Losing to Vanderbilt isn't just a "s*** happens" thing. Butch is only 2-2 against Vandy, and we lost to Vandy this year after already losing a game to a s****y South Carolina team. We also very easily could have (could argue should have) lost to App State. The team had problems this year with getting ready to play and I think that falls squarely on the shoulders of Butch and his staff.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Not that I disagree with you. But look at it like this. Vanderbilt in the past 6 seasons, including this one has a record of 37-38. Our record in the past 6 seasons is 39-35... Please explain to me how our record and current state of the program indicates anything other than us being on the same level as them. We are a little worse than we used to be historically and they are over achieving Historicly compared the Vanderbilt of old... So this mass assumption you are doing making losing to Vanderbilt this inexcusable atrocity is silly. No we should never lose to them, and first year for Butch is excusable, this year it was not. But Clemson shouldn't be losing Pittsburgh either, but sometimes **** happens.

If you look at the average recruiting rankings of TN versus Vanderbilt the past 4 seasons ( roughly 10th to 50th average class ranking), the historical dominance of UT over Vandy, and what was actually on the line in terms of motivation( bowl eligibility in 2013, Sugar Bowl in 2016) I really don't see where making the assumption that Vanderbilt should be a win for the Vols is that silly of an assumption.

Yes, any given Saturday, one team can lose to another.

Unfortunately, we have seen 2 losses and a 7 point win in 4 seasons over a team that the Vols should absolutely dominate. Only once has Jones had his team in a position to dominate them.

I am using Vanderbilt as the example but there are may other games where Jones has either coached down to the competition or gotten his a-- flat out handed to him.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Not that I disagree with you. But look at it like this. Vanderbilt in the past 6 seasons, including this one has a record of 37-38. Our record in the past 6 seasons is 39-35... Please explain to me how our record and current state of the program indicates anything other than us being on the same level as them. We are a little worse than we used to be historically and they are over achieving Historicly compared the Vanderbilt of old... So this mass assumption you are doing making losing to Vanderbilt this inexcusable atrocity is silly. No we should never lose to them, and first year for Butch is excusable, this year it was not. But Clemson shouldn't be losing Pittsburgh either, but sometimes **** happens.

And to be honest about it, what are we doing here?

No one is asking Jones to replicate Saban and Alabama.

Making progress and widening the gap on a team like Vanderbilt should be expected though. Otherwise, what the hell is the point of paying anyone 4 million a year to coach in Knoxville?

 

[Dudleys87]

The saving grace is that the defense will have an entire off season to prepare for that option offense.

But the down side is this will be put off until late in off season when they should be planning now. I'm in no way saying it's a guaranteed Tech Win but if we go into it like we did against App it'll be interesting until the final whistle.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

But the down side is this will be put off until late in off season when they should be planning now. I'm in no way saying it's a guaranteed Tech Win but if we go into it like we did against App it'll be interesting until the final whistle.

At this point, I am just starting to read that 24/7 article posted in another thread.

Sounds like the Yellowjackets are the least of the Vols worries.

 

[MWAVolfan]

You made up an argument that proves no point to impress no one that cares. It's OK though. Continue name calling. When Tennessee loses 5 games next year you will be stripped of any remaining talking points and will have wasted the last 5 years of your life on your false messiah. Only your shame will be left to fill the hole where your credibility used to be.

 

[volfan102455]

Tennessee should never be in a position that Vanderbilt dictates which bowl the Vols end up in. It's happened twice now in 4 seasons.

So maybe we need to play Vanderbilt the first game of the year and Alabama the last game - would that make you feel better?

I do agree but probably not for the same reason that you said that.

The need was to win the last game, regardless of who it was to get to a specific bowl game. Had UT beat A&M or South Carolina - the last game would not have been a necessity to win. It is not really about the "who" but that the game needed to be won. And the game needed to be won because of the three other losses and the need to stay ahead of all the SEC teams not named Alabama.

 

[Smokeyman]

Whiners gonna whine, haters gonna hate, and bit**es gonna bi**h.. They will never be happy with anything, ever. Best to ignore fear, insecurity and hate and instead promote love, confidence and hope. Thats just me. That's also why i have about 30% of this board on ignore at this point...

 

[photovol]

I'm not disputing that we've lost two games we shouldn't, over a four year period, both this year. We all agree on that.

I'm just asking why logic is now getting twisted around to assume failure NEXT year.

Have you even looked at the roster for 2017, the Vols lose Barnett, Vareen, Dobbs, Kamara, Hurd* Weisman, Sutton Maybin and Croom.......no experience at OB....
2017 may be a 5-7 year at best

 

[VolFootballlover]

Whiners gonna whine, haters gonna hate, and bit**es gonna bi**h.. They will never be happy with anything, ever. Best to ignore fear, insecurity and hate and instead promote love, confidence and hope. Thats just me. That's also why i have about 30% of this board on ignore at this point...

are we talking about football or having a marriage class ?

 

[VolFootballlover]

Four years ago, when Hurd, Dobbs, JRM, TKJ, etc. we're all true freshmen, and the cupboard was otherwise bare, the Butch Haters were up in arms because we didn't go to a bowl game with "all that talent." When it was pointed out that that "talent" had no experience, the haters told us that talent was talent, and if Butch was a decent coach at all he'd coach them up to at least Citrus Bowl status after years of 5-6 records.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (we should have hired Charlie Strong!!)

Fast forward to today. We come off two consecutive years of 9-4 (we are beating NU) and are loaded with 4/5 star freshmen and are headed to a top 10 recruiting class to back them up. But now we hear from the Butch Haters that JG, Callaway, Fils-Aime, etc. won't be ready to beat Mizzou next year, Trey Smith needs eons of time to develop, and we are doomed to go 6-6.

The underlying whine: Butch Sucks (I want to hire a mythical fairy who will never come here).

Which one is it, whiners?

dam ,we had back to back 9-4 seasons under Butch? Good thing we had 5/6 easy wins this year then !

 

[93TNVol]

View attachment 124707

That look on his face...he's either thinking about hot monkey poontang, bananas, or both. lol:

 

[johne]

I admit I have been frustrated with Butch this season but he is our Coach next season it's time to back him up. If we're in the same boat next season we can ramp up the negative talk again but for right now I say "Go Vols & Go Butch"!!!!

 

[orangebloodgmc]

Whiners gonna whine, haters gonna hate, and bit**es gonna bi**h.. They will never be happy with anything, ever. Best to ignore fear, insecurity and hate and instead promote love, confidence and hope. Thats just me. That's also why i have about 30% of this board on ignore at this point...

Good man. When they start that crap ... aint nobody got time for that.

Thus, my ignore list has grown to 8 columns x 44 per = 352, I believe.

 

[BeecherVol]

So maybe we need to play Vanderbilt the first game of the year and Alabama the last game - would that make you feel better?

I do agree but probably not for the same reason that you said that.

The need was to win the last game, regardless of who it was to get to a specific bowl game. Had UT beat A&M or South Carolina - the last game would not have been a necessity to win. It is not really about the "who" but that the game needed to be won. And the game needed to be won because of the three other losses and the need to stay ahead of all the SEC teams not named Alabama.

We should hope the East and or a Sugar Bowl type bid comes down to SC, Tech, Ky, Mizzou, and Vandy.

 

[QuickSmurf]

butch should be able to win the weak sec east next year with florida and georgia way down. he is still having to deal with the disaster left by dooley

UGA is loaded with talent. Idk about Florida. Florida beat a loaded LSU team. The East isn't that weak imo.