The Kumar Rocker Mystery

#27

BreatheUT

Build Back Worse.
Joined
Dec 2, 2017
Messages
16,736
Likes
22,768
#27
It's a mystery what happened to Rocker. I'm guessing Vanderbilt won't reveal the issue eventhough they have to know. Apparently the Rocker family has been silent to this point as well. It seems to be costing him millions.
 
#28

AthensVol2007

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
2,132
Likes
3,568
#28
After he established his legend with that elimination game no-hitter in 2019, nobody with a n’th predicted anything but Cy Youngs and ace status at the next level. He ends up being selected 10th overall by the Mets. They decline to sign him and receive compensation. He’s now pitching in the Independent League looking at another shot in the Draft. What happened? A snippet from Keith Law in the Athletic and a better explanation than anything I’ve seen posited: That no-hitter from 2019 deserves further mention, though. Rocker punched out 19 batters in that outing and required 131 pitches to do so. In the last five full MLB seasons, only three pitchers have thrown at least 130 pitches in a game; none was younger than 25 when he did it. Rocker was 19 years old at the time of the no-hitter and visibly fatigued – or maybe exhausted – by the time the game was over. He shouldn’t have been out there, even if it seemed like “history” at the time. We know that pitching while fatigued increases the risk of injury. We saw him overused, to an extent that no Major League Baseball team would consider for any pitcher of his age. If Rocker turns out to have some kind of arm injury – which, to be clear, we do not know for certain, only that the Mets saw something they didn’t like – we should at least consider whether that 131-pitch outing had anything to do with it.

Reads to me like a failure of responsibility all on Tim Corbin. Interested in the response of better college baseball minds.
That’s been obvious with Corbin; the “obvious” isn’t a dig at you TXBO. Leiter went 110+ almost every SEC outing last year as a SO; I believe Beam was 108-110 in his Vandy outing this year and that was the most anyone threw in a game all year. We did it 1 time.
 
#31

ksgovols

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
1,744
Likes
1,867
#31
The increase in arm injuries can be tied to the proliferation of travel ball and kids pitching too many innings and throwing too many breaking balls while they are still growing. The experience gained during travel ball is good for batting and fielding but it’s a detriment to pitchers.
It depends. I don't think kids should play travel ball until they're on the big field with a 60'-6" rubber and 90 ft bases which should negate most of the breaking balls while they're young issues. I didn't let any of my kids throw breaking balls when they were on the smaller field. We worked on location and changeups/palm balls for a second pitch. My boys' experience with the Knights was pitch count and arm rest oriented. Starters usually got 3 innings a weekend if they were throwing well and relievers an inning every other day max. Every team he played on carried enough pitchers to get them through the weekend tournaments and I never saw a Knight's coach leave a kid in too long. Summer ball in the heat of the summer should not cause arm issues. Colder temps and thinner pitching staffs on high school teams are more of an issue in my view.
 
#32

butchna

Sit down and tell me all about it...way over there
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
92,407
Likes
152,846
#32
Corbin's overuse of KR probably isn't all on him as I'm guessing KR and/or family agreed to being used like a rented mule on the mound.

Egregious overuse of this young man and his arm talent should be a BIG RED FLAG for pitchers being recruited to play for this guy.
Any player worth having has to be forced to give up the ball.
 
Likes: chuckiepoo
#33

Jax_Vol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
27,557
Likes
14,947
#33
Any player worth having has to be forced to give up the ball.
And as the coach, you have to have the nuts to take the ball from the kids hand with a max count of 100-110 pitches. Even if he has a no-hitter going. Or, has a 30 minute bench long inning sitting on the bench. Just the way CTV handled Beam (maybe???) earlier this year when he had a no-hitter thru six innings.
 
Last edited:
#34

LAVol1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2017
Messages
1,370
Likes
2,279
#34
Some high school coaches do it too. My co-workers son had a scholarship to GT but ended up having Tommy John surgery as a HS senior likely due to overwork. His baseball career faded out at a smaller school.

Word gets around and the problem solves itself as prospects choose other schools - little consolation for the guys that get overworked.
Over 15 years ago, Dr. James Andrews, stated that there was an alarming epidemic of pitching injuries among high school players. In Andrews' opinion, it was the result of kids pitching too much--regular season, travel ball, fall leagues. My son, then a college freshman, was one of his patients. But, my son did not play summer ball or travel ball, and he never threw over 90 pitches in a game. IMO, the rash of injuries was primarily the result of the rise of biomechanics in pitching instruction that really took hold around 2000, pioneered by Paul Nyman. Nyman, an engineer, did detailed bio-mechanic studies of major league pitchers and initiated programs to help young pitchers gain speed. His star pupil, a Juco pitcher from Seattle, went from 78 to 92 MPH in less than a year. Pitchers changed their mechanics to increase speeds, but their bodies were not conditioned for the increased speed. My son changed his mechanics using Nyman's program to get the extra speed, gaining 7-8 MPH on his fastball in less than 18 months, but his shoulder muscles were not conditioned to handle the extra speed, particularly the strain on the labrum when the arm decelerated. Result: torn labrum. Nyman called me when he found out about the injury. We talked about it and I could tell that Nyman was almost as distraught as we were. A few months later, Nyman shut down his pitching instruction website. I think Nyman decided that he might get sued because of the alarming number of injuries incurred by his students. But, others used Nyman's studies, starting "pitching academies" that churned out flame-throwing pitchers. A few years later, I remember Harold Reynolds saying that when he was in the majors, you could count on one hand the number of pitchers that threw 95+. In the 2006 draft, 19 pitchers taken in the first round threw 95+. IMO, Paul Nyman was the driving force that initiated the dramatic increase in pitching velocity.
 
#35

chuckiepoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
6,969
Likes
12,722
#35
Over 15 years ago, Dr. James Andrews, stated that there was an alarming epidemic of pitching injuries among high school players. In Andrews' opinion, it was the result of kids pitching too much--regular season, travel ball, fall leagues. My son, then a college freshman, was one of his patients. But, my son did not play summer ball or travel ball, and he never threw over 90 pitches in a game. IMO, the rash of injuries was primarily the result of the rise of biomechanics in pitching instruction that really took hold around 2000, pioneered by Paul Nyman. Nyman, an engineer, did detailed bio-mechanic studies of major league pitchers and initiated programs to help young pitchers gain speed. His star pupil, a Juco pitcher from Seattle, went from 78 to 92 MPH in less than a year. Pitchers changed their mechanics to increase speeds, but their bodies were not conditioned for the increased speed. My son changed his mechanics using Nyman's program to get the extra speed, gaining 7-8 MPH on his fastball in less than 18 months, but his shoulder muscles were not conditioned to handle the extra speed, particularly the strain on the labrum when the arm decelerated. Result: torn labrum. Nyman called me when he found out about the injury. We talked about it and I could tell that Nyman was almost as distraught as we were. A few months later, Nyman shut down his pitching instruction website. I think Nyman decided that he might get sued because of the alarming number of injuries incurred by his students. But, others used Nyman's studies, starting "pitching academies" that churned out flame-throwing pitchers. A few years later, I remember Harold Reynolds saying that when he was in the majors, you could count on one hand the number of pitchers that threw 95+. In the 2006 draft, 19 pitchers taken in the first round threw 95+. IMO, Paul Nyman was the driving force that initiated the dramatic increase in pitching velocity.
Must prepare the body…
 
Likes: VolPack22
#36

CunningLinguist

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
159
Likes
110
#36
So Corbin is over using his pitchers? They have two national titles and many very successful big league pitchers. You do not see a lot of arm injuries coming from them. I am old school, it was nothing to throw 150 pitches every 5th day. Injuries were rare. When the season was over, you did not throw a baseball till spring the next year. The problem is over work by parents and coaches during the development years (middle school through high school). And as LAVol1 posted, the improper conditioning of supporting muscles and tendons when changing the mechanics.

Rocker was a victim of two aholes. Scott Boras and the Met's owner. Rocker is throwing upper 90's and is jumping up the draft board. Does not sound like an arm injury to me. Pitch count is the scapegoat, but the development is the issue. These kids play year round from middle school up. By the time they get to college they have thrown as many pitches as the pre 2000's era guys had thrown by the time they were 30.
 
Likes: E-Tizzle
#37

Jax_Vol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
27,557
Likes
14,947
#37
So Corbin is over using his pitchers? They have two national titles and many very successful big league pitchers. You do not see a lot of arm injuries coming from them. I am old school, it was nothing to throw 150 pitches every 5th day. Injuries were rare. When the season was over, you did not throw a baseball till spring the next year. The problem is over work by parents and coaches during the development years (middle school through high school). And as LAVol1 posted, the improper conditioning of supporting muscles and tendons when changing the mechanics.

Rocker was a victim of two aholes. Scott Boras and the Met's owner. Rocker is throwing upper 90's and is jumping up the draft board. Does not sound like an arm injury to me. Pitch count is the scapegoat, but the development is the issue. These kids play year round from middle school up. By the time they get to college they have thrown as many pitches as the pre 2000's era guys had thrown by the time they were 30.
When we were in Omaha last year, there was much buzz about Rocker being the first or second pick in the draft. Instead, he fell all the way down to the number ten spot. How do you explain? And, why did he refuse to provide pre-draft x-rays?
 
#38

butchna

Sit down and tell me all about it...way over there
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
92,407
Likes
152,846
#38
So Corbin is over using his pitchers? They have two national titles and many very successful big league pitchers. You do not see a lot of arm injuries coming from them. I am old school, it was nothing to throw 150 pitches every 5th day. Injuries were rare. When the season was over, you did not throw a baseball till spring the next year. The problem is over work by parents and coaches during the development years (middle school through high school). And as LAVol1 posted, the improper conditioning of supporting muscles and tendons when changing the mechanics.

Rocker was a victim of two aholes. Scott Boras and the Met's owner. Rocker is throwing upper 90's and is jumping up the draft board. Does not sound like an arm injury to me. Pitch count is the scapegoat, but the development is the issue. These kids play year round from middle school up. By the time they get to college they have thrown as many pitches as the pre 2000's era guys had thrown by the time they were 30.
Damage was done before Boras had any input. When you get drafted top 10 and the team declines to sign you? Something went wrong BEFOREHAND. If he RECOVERS from it and has a successful career, he RECOVERED from something tangible.
 
Likes: chuckiepoo
#40

butchna

Sit down and tell me all about it...way over there
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
92,407
Likes
152,846
#40
I heard it was aliens.

Apparently, Coach Corbin is not one of us and from some portal of another galaxy. Sole purpose is to ruin earth's pitchers.
Additionally, Coach Corbin donkey punches kittens.

Go Vols!
Championing Vandy’s coach with your ridicule of any criticism belies your last sentence. 😏
 
#41

Sam I Am

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,225
Likes
3,100
#41
Championing Vandy’s coach with your ridicule of any criticism belies your last sentence. 😏
OR, it solidifies the silliness of MK ultra-ing into another coaches thought process and/or motivations, that may or may not have had an effect on a pitchers well-being, both long and short-term. Therefore, henceforth, with all reps and warranties.......Go Vols!
 
#43

butchna

Sit down and tell me all about it...way over there
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
92,407
Likes
152,846
#43
OR, it solidifies the silliness of MK ultra-ing into another coaches thought process and/or motivations, that may or may not have had an effect on a pitchers well-being, both long and short-term. Therefore, henceforth, with all reps and warranties.......Go Vols!
Corbin overused him. I shared the article that highlighted it. He did him no favors and failed in his responsibilities.
 
#44

Jax_Vol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
27,557
Likes
14,947
#44
Corbin overused him. I shared the article that highlighted it. He did him no favors and failed in his responsibilities.
I don't see how anyone can possibly dispute that. A grown man simply can not allow a 18 year old kid to throw 130 pitches.

That is called 'rented mule' management. Shame Shame on Coach Corbin. In the long run, he probably cost Kumar over $100 million.
 

VN Store




Top