The Impeachment Thread

[volfanhill]

If his policy requires any kind of funding (which all policy does), then congress.

Lol no it doesn’t. If the POTUS wants to launch a bunch of cruise missiles tonight he can. No approval required. The ultimate power in foreign policy is the military. Now congress does control tariffs but they have long since given that up.

 

[NCFisher]

Hope I didn't keep you waiting.
U.S. Foreign Policy Powers: Congress and the President
The U.S. Constitution parcels out foreign relations powers to both the executive and legislative branches. It grants some powers, like command of the military, exclusively to the president and others, like the regulation of foreign commerce, to Congress, while still others it divides among the two or simply does not assign.
“The Constitution, considered only for its affirmative grants of power capable of affecting the issue, is an invitation to struggle for the privilege of directing American foreign policy,” wrote constitutional scholar Edward S. Corwin in 1958.
The periodic tug-of-war between the president and Congress over foreign policy is not a by-product of the Constitution, but rather, one of its core aims.
Article I of the Constitution enumerates several of Congress’s foreign affairs powers, including those to “regulate commerce with foreign nations,” “declare war,” “raise and support armies,” “provide and maintain a navy,” and “make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces.” The Constitution also makes two of the president’s foreign affairs powers—making treaties and appointing diplomats—dependent on Senate approval.

No, try to focus. The Presidency direct the foreign policy concerns of the military, treaties, and diplomatic relations.

This conversation centers on diplomatic relations and the role of diplomats. Ambassadors/diplomats are appointed by the president and approved by the Senate. They then belong - just as soldiers belong to the military - to the president. No one else directs them. His mission is theirs, no other.

If you want to make this about wars and commerce, etc. then start another topic. The foreign policy topic relates to Ukraine and diplomats who've forgotten their place.

 

[Orangeburst]

deleted

 

[NCFisher]

___________

 

[Orangeburst]

oops

 

[NCFisher]

You're changing your tune, which is good.
As you said, "policy is what the President decides with cabinet level members", that policy is passed onto the people in the field charged with carrying out that policy. It is the policy conveyed to diplomats and ambassadors.
Official U.S. foreign policy IS NOT whatever the president decides and tries to implement through back channels. (feel free to call that the NON-official U.S. foreign policy.)

No - guffaw! - I'm expressly not changing my tune. Cabinet level members ALSO belong to and serve at the President's pleasure. They belong to him, just as diplomats belong to him. His dictate is THEIR mission.

Cabinet members are there strictly to serve his vision of their cabinet and advise him. When he makes a decision, debate ends and they do as told.

That's not just Trump; it's every president.

 

[NCFisher]

--------------

 

[luthervol]

No, try to focus. The Presidency direct the foreign policy concerns of the military, treaties, and diplomatic relations.

This conversation centers on diplomatic relations and the role of diplomats. Ambassadors/diplomats are appointed by the president and approved by the Senate. They then belong - just as soldiers belong to the military - to the president. No one else directs them. His mission is theirs, no other.

If you want to make this about wars and commerce, etc. then start another topic. The foreign policy topic relates to Ukraine and diplomats who've forgotten their place.

You're still missing the whole point.
They were following what they thought the official US policy was. The stated policy.
If his mission is theirs, then it would make sense that they would know what his mission is; don't you think?

 

[NCFisher]

-----------------

 

[luthervol]

No - guffaw! - I'm expressly not changing my tune. Cabinet level members ALSO belong to and serve at the President's pleasure. They belong to him, just as diplomats belong to him. His dictate is THEIR mission.

Cabinet members are there strictly to serve his vision of their cabinet and advise him. When he makes a decision, debate ends and they do as told.

That's not just Trump; it's every president.

Still????
I'll type more slowly.
The official U.S. policy is the policy the diplomats are told is the official policy.
If there is a secondary, secret, behind the scenes policy, it is not the OFFICIAL policy, it is the UNOFFICIAL policy.

 

[NCFisher]

You're still missing the whole point.
They were following what they thought the official US policy was. The stated policy.
If his mission is theirs, then it would make sense that they would know what his mission is; don't you think?

What, specifically, is the conflict you are referring to (above in bold)?

 

[NCFisher]

Still????
I'll type more slowly.
The official U.S. policy is the policy the diplomats are told is the official policy.
If there is a secondary, secret, behind the scenes policy, it is not the OFFICIAL policy, it is the UNOFFICIAL policy.

Typing ambiguous nonsense slowly doesn't salvage it. What - specifically - is the OFFICIAL and UNOFFICIAL policy dispute you refer to?

 

[luthervol]

What, specifically, is the conflict you are referring to (above in bold)?

Typing ambiguous nonsense slowly doesn't salvage it. What - specifically - is the OFFICIAL and UNOFFICIAL policy dispute you refer to?

Weren't you commenting on rouge diplomats. What made them rouge?
Trump has gone completely off script from the "Official" position multiple times.
Fox News correspondent Jennifer Griffin reported Wednesday that sources say President Donald Trump "went off script" and "essentially greenlighted" the Turkish military operation in Syria during his phone call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, a decision that has shocked the U.S. military.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Why do you turd gobblers keep redacting your ****ing posts?

 

[FLVOL_79]

I am amazed daily in here at the amount of people who have no idea how the government works.

 

[NCFisher]

Why do you turd gobblers keep redacting your ****ing posts?

So some OCD knob-gobbler will ask stupid ****ing questions, of course.

 

[SLICKYINC]

 

[Coug]

I am amazed daily in here at the amount of people who have no idea how the government works.

Wait a second... Out of all of the ridiculousness that goes on in this thread THAT is what amazes you?

 

[FLVOL_79]

Wait a second... Out of all of the ridiculousness that goes on in this thread THAT is what amazes you?

lol no. It just seems a lot of people have some romanticized Hollywood idea of how government works and I catch a glimpse of it in here often.

 

[37L1]

Weren't you commenting on rouge diplomats. What made them rouge?
Trump has gone completely off script from the "Official" position multiple times.
Fox News correspondent Jennifer Griffin reported Wednesday that sources say President Donald Trump "went off script" and "essentially greenlighted" the Turkish military operation in Syria during his phone call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, a decision that has shocked the U.S. military.

They were "rouge" because they like makeup?

Definition of rouge
(Entry 1 of 2)

1 : any of various cosmetics for coloring the cheeks or lips red

2 : a red powder consisting essentially of ferric oxide used in polishing glass, metal, or gems and as a pigment

rouge
verb

rouged; rouging

Definition of rouge (Entry 2 of 2)

transitive verb
1 : to apply rouge to

2 : to cause to redden

 

[Zues1]

They were "rouge" because they like makeup?

Definition of rouge
(Entry 1 of 2)

1 : any of various cosmetics for coloring the cheeks or lips red

2 : a red powder consisting essentially of ferric oxide used in polishing glass, metal, or gems and as a pigment

rouge
verb

rouged; rouging

Definition of rouge (Entry 2 of 2)

transitive verb
1 : to apply rouge to

2 : to cause to redden

Bawahaha

 

[BigOrangeD]

Nails It!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[NCFisher]

Weren't you commenting on rouge diplomats. What made them rouge?
Trump has gone completely off script from the "Official" position multiple times.
Fox News correspondent Jennifer Griffin reported Wednesday that sources say President Donald Trump "went off script" and "essentially greenlighted" the Turkish military operation in Syria during his phone call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, a decision that has shocked the U.S. military.

No, the blue and green diplomats; not concerned with the rouge ones. (sorry, you'd take that shot, too)

Yes, Trump is not a conventional president. And the moment he greenlights something, it's official policy, not unofficial policy. Without agreeing or disagreeing with the move, if his decisions leave some people disagreeing or scrambling, that's the breaks. They, like diplomats, get on board with the official policy or resign.

 

[McDad]

They were "rouge" because they like makeup?

Definition of rouge
(Entry 1 of 2)

1 : any of various cosmetics for coloring the cheeks or lips red

2 : a red powder consisting essentially of ferric oxide used in polishing glass, metal, or gems and as a pigment

rouge
verb

rouged; rouging

Definition of rouge (Entry 2 of 2)

transitive verb
1 : to apply rouge to

2 : to cause to redden

Based on the pic alone, I demand more rouge diplomats!

 

[luthervol]

No, the blue and green diplomats; not concerned with the rouge ones. (sorry, you'd take that shot, too)

Yes, Trump is not a conventional president. And the moment he greenlights something, it's official policy, not unofficial policy. Without agreeing or disagreeing with the move, if his decisions leave some people disagreeing or scrambling, that's the breaks. They, like diplomats, get on board with the official policy or resign.

Rogue? There's some joke in there about u being misplaced but it's not coming to me.
We're just going in circles now. So Trump can change "official" foreign policy whenever he wishes, however he wishes, as many times as he wishes, and without telling the people charged with knowing and carrying out that "official" policy.
I don't blame the people who find that frustrating, confusing, and wrongheaded. It's not their problem, it's his.
By the way, this was interesting:
Newly released emails offer more details in timeline of pause to Ukraine aid - CNNPolitics
Roughly 90 minutes after President Donald Trump spoke to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on July 25, Trump's political appointees at the White House's budget office were already ordering the Pentagon to freeze security funding for Ukraine, newly released government documents show.
"Given the sensitive nature of the request, I appreciate your keeping that information closely held to those who need to know to execute direction," Duffey said.


While a formal notification would be sent later that day, this was the first clear sign that the aid was being held -- a short time after the phone call in which Trump pressed Zelensky for investigations that could boost Trump politically.