The Impeachment Thread

#29,501
#29,501
lawgator1 said:
The difference is that in 1972 there was not this cacophony of right wing loon voices telling the stupid GOP masses that it was all a frame up. GOP voters were informed of the facts and drew the inevitable conclusions. Correctly. Now, there is an entire spin machine out there that gives lazy, dumb GOP voters excuses to disbelieve objective fact in the first place.
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Or vice versa.
 
#29,502
#29,502
utvols88 said:
Only if it was a corrupt investigation. Like the FISA situation. I don't mean that to be against you. I mean that was an example. If documents are falsified, sources are not credible and it still got pushed like the russian collusion accusation, I'd want his ass gone.
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No, if the President of the United States is using military aid, which has been authorized by Congress for a foreign country, as leverage to obtain something of personal value for himself, and only for himself, then that constitutes an abuse of power.
 
#29,503
#29,503
BowlBrother85 said:
No, if the President of the United States is using military aid, which has been authorized by Congress for a foreign country, as leverage to obtain something of personal value for himself, and only for himself, then that constitutes an abuse of power.
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That's the conjecture. He says us, we, this country. Not I or me or myself. You've played yourself again BB.
 
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#29,504
#29,504
luthervol said:
And therein lies the kicker........it was like one massive simultaneous brain fart, humanity laying an egg.
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I think of it as finally standing up to what the left has been shoving down everyone's throats for too long, what with all the snowball effect PC has had on our society, and the notion that radical liberalism was the only choice, and we were wrong for being perfectly fine living as moderates or conservatives, and their choice did not require it to be others choices. Trump is Trump. But, just maybe, Trump was the wrong person in the right place at the right time for people to stand up and put the brakes on.
 
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#29,506
#29,506
luthervol said:
I would hope you know by now that I will never give it up.
Much like "Remember the Alamo", "Remember Pearl Harbor", and "Remember 9/11"; "Remember the Trump catastrophe" will live in infamy.
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"Remember Luther." I feel certain there will be a bronze emoji of you one day on the home page of VNPF.
 
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#29,507
#29,507
GVF said:
I think of it as finally standing up to what the left has been shoving down everyone's throats for too long, what with all the snowball effect PC has had on our society, and the notion that radical liberalism was the only choice, and we were wrong for being perfectly fine living as moderates or conservatives, and their choice did not require it to be others choices. Trump is Trump. But, just maybe, Trump was the wrong person in the right place at the right time for people to stand up and put the brakes on.
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I understand everything you are saying but the bolded part of your post makes everything else meaningless.
 
#29,510
#29,510
utvols88 said:
That's the conjecture. He says us, we, this country. Not I or me or myself. You've played yourself again BB.
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To be accurate: Donald Trump said "I want you to do us a favor, though." It's pretty clear in context with the rest of the July 25th phone call, that the "us" was referring to Trump himself, Rudy Giuliani, William Barr and Mike Pompeo. Trump was asking President Zelensky to assist Giuliani and Barr with an investigation into the Bidens while on that July 25th phone call and Pompeo was on the call as well.

It's not conjecture.
 
#29,511
#29,511
BowlBrother85 said:
No, they wouldn't. Even if there was a so-called "smoking gun" tape ala Nixon, Republicans would only be forced to admit that Trump had tried to bribe Zelensky. The strategy would shift to "Yes, it was wrong, but it's not impeachable." In other words, the goal posts would move.
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I don't buy that. Early enough in his presidency, he had already alienated enough of the GOP that if the Dems had brought anything provable in a ethical and integral manner, they would have bought in. The longer they went after him with conjecture and manufactured wish lists, and kept coming up with egg on their face, they forced the GOP back into party lines. If they had kept any of their shenanigans the last 3 years, especially year 1, above board, he would be gone, or at the least, set up to fail for sure this election. In the end, the dems forced the scale of weights and measures to sway back to party politics.
 
#29,512
#29,512
BowlBrother85 said:
To be accurate: Donald Trump said "I want you to do us a favor, though." It's pretty clear in context with the rest of the July 25th phone call, that the "us" was referring to Trump himself, Rudy Giuliani, William Barr and Mike Pompeo. Trump was asking President Zelensky to assist Giuliani and Barr with an investigation into the Bidens while on that July 25th phone call and Pompeo was on the call as well.

It's not conjecture.
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That's not clear. Its clear to you because you only see what you want to see.

Is it possible that your assumption is correct? Absolutely. But it's not 'fact'. It is your opinion of what he thought. it is conjecture because the only person that knows intent, as it stands currently, is Trump. Unless you have a memo, a recording or anything of substance besides you filling in the gaps with your desired outcome. In fact, the information we have currently is only to the contrary.
 
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#29,513
#29,513
luthervol said:
I understand everything you are saying but the bolded part of your post makes everything else meaningless.
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No it doesn't. It magnifies it. The masses, tired of being told how to eat, rallied around the man willing to stand up and throw his plate from the table. What the Dems effectively did is force the GOP to grow a set that had been castrated for over 2 decades or more. Todays society is a byproduct of the PC movement of the 80's that went awry.
 
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#29,514
#29,514
BowlBrother85 said:
To be accurate: Donald Trump said "I want you to do us a favor, though." It's pretty clear in context with the rest of the July 25th phone call, that the "us" was referring to Trump himself, Rudy Giuliani, William Barr and Mike Pompeo. Trump was asking President Zelensky to assist Giuliani and Barr with an investigation into the Bidens while on that July 25th phone call and Pompeo was on the call as well.

It's not conjecture.
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“I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it.”

That’s his quote. To imply “us” is anything but “country” is the conjecture.
 
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#29,517
#29,517
newyorkvol said:
“I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it.”

That’s his quote. To imply “us” is anything but “country” is the conjecture.
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...in context with what Trump is asking for, the favor is clearly intended to be for himself and Giuliani. "Us" is his campaign and allies of his campaign. Trump is asking Zelensky to help Giuliani dig up dirt on the Bidens. And who stands to benefit from that? Only Donald Trump and his chances at re-election.
 
#29,521
#29,521
BowlBrother85 said:
...in context with what Trump is asking for, the favor is clearly intended to be for himself and Giuliani. "Us" is his campaign and allies of his campaign. Trump is asking Zelensky to help Giuliani dig up dirt on the Bidens. And who stands to benefit from that? Only Donald Trump and his chances at re-election.
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Please go read the transcript and then talk context again. Zelensky had just been talking about what a great partner the UNITED STATES had been to Ukraine, even more so than the EU. Then after the famous quote, Trump says he’ll have the “Attorney General” be in touch. No mention of Guiliani in that portion of the conversation. Only our country and our country’s leading lawyer.
 
#29,524
#29,524
newyorkvol said:
Please go read the transcript and then talk context again. Zelensky had just been talking about what a great partner the UNITED STATES had been to Ukraine, even more so than the EU. Then after the famous quote, Trump says he’ll have the “Attorney General” be in touch. No mention of Guiliani in that portion of the conversation. Only our country and our country’s leading lawyer.
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I have read the transcript and Trump does ask Zelensky to assist Giuliani in his investigation of the Bidens. There is no mention of corruption - just of an investigation into the Bidens... while Trump is also advancing a conspiracy theory from a Russian disinformation campaign (The CrowdStrike Theory), that involved the Ukraine having the hacked DNC server. That crazy theory has been de-bunked all over the internet over the last 2 years and yet, Trump was still bringing it up on a call to the Ukrainian President on July 25th. That is absolutely ridiculous behavior from the President of the United States. Zelensky probably didn't even know what in the hell he was talking about. Trump is a nut.
 
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#29,525
#29,525
GVF said:
No it doesn't. It magnifies it. The masses, tired of being told how to eat, rallied around the man willing to stand up and throw his plate from the table. What the Dems effectively did is force the GOP to grow a set that had been castrated for over 2 decades or more. Todays society is a byproduct of the PC movement of the 80's that went awry.
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The masses? Trump struck a nerve with a segment of society, far from the masses. I think more are turned off than turned on.
But he certainly did highlight and widen the divide......intentionally.
 
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