The Impeachment Thread

#29,476
#29,476
Septic said:
Looks like McConnell Team Trump is going to duck having to put the people who actually know on the stand. As bad as the House inquiry was, the optics of rejecting any witnesses by the Senate is in orders of magnitude worse.

I mean we all knew that the votes on both sides were a foregone conclusion, but damn. I thought at a minimum they'd want to exonerate him - hard to do that if these bozos are out there admitting to not even being fair.
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Didn’t the house reject putting Pedo Joe and his crackhead son on the stand?
 
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#29,477
#29,477
EMAyHdWXYAI1YLb
 
#29,478
#29,478
GVF said:
Overwhelming evidence would have produced different results. The GOP would have had no choice but to fall in line if there was overwhelming evidence. Nixon was overwhelming evidence and was probably told behind close doors he had to step down.
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No, they wouldn't. Even if there was a so-called "smoking gun" tape ala Nixon, Republicans would only be forced to admit that Trump had tried to bribe Zelensky. The strategy would shift to "Yes, it was wrong, but it's not impeachable." In other words, the goal posts would move.
 
#29,479
#29,479
zeppelin128 said:
Don't misunderstand me, I firmly believe Trump abused his office by withholding Congressionally mandated aid to Ukraine in exchange for dirt on Joe Biden to aid in his reelection campaign for 2020. I believe he obstructed justice in the follow-up investigation. I also believe he has done much worse than what we know.
What I am aware of is that impeachment is a political exercise. Which means the House will impeach, and the Senate will acquit. Mitch already said it was dead on arrival before the House has even voted yet. So yeah, we will move on to the next thing soon enough.
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A "dumb question" on the way. We have three branches of government with dedicated duties. You are right; congress doles out the money, but even that is with input from the executive branch since the executive branch is essentially the operations branch with budgetary needs for actions and staffing. After all how would congress supposedly know what a three letter branch coming under control of the president would need if not for input from the executive branch. Without doubt, the originators of our government understood how unwieldy congresses would be as an operations branch and delegated that to the executive branch - first hint: the name. So on to the question. Why would you supposed that with that delegation of authority, the founding fathers would have not given the chief executive (CEO) the authority for day to day governmental operations to include timing and go "no go" decisions?

A funky little example of an executive vs a bureaucracy. Let's suppose a congress delegated $50B in spending for the government of Alamania, and the just before the check went into the mail, Alamania was overthrown by an unfriendly group. Do you still think the president should abide by congressional mandate and send the money to a sworn enemy of the US? If we are arguing about withholding money for Ukraine, the why aren't we arguing about withholding F-35s to Turkey, and why did we not have this kind of "crisis" when we stopped F-14 parts to Iran years ago? I'm pretty sure we all know the answers and how politics perverts good ole common sense.
 
#29,480
#29,480
luthervol said:
I would hope you know by now that I will never give it up.
Much like "Remember the Alamo", "Remember Pearl Harbor", and "Remember 9/11"; "Remember the Trump catastrophe" will live in infamy.
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How insulting to real people that died for this country. You are a fascist *******.
 
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#29,481
#29,481
Velo Vol said:
It's all part of the trap.

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IMO:

Cippolone wrote a letter and then Trump made a few edits and wrote a letter on the back of it. The first page and a half or so is a pretty cogent recitation of the Fox News greatest hits album. The rest of it is a less cogent recitation of the same greatest hits.
 
#29,482
#29,482
RockyTop85 said:
IMO:

Cippolone wrote a letter and then Trump made a few edits and wrote a letter on the back of it. The first page and a half or so is a pretty cogent recitation of the Fox News greatest hits album. The rest of it is a less cogent recitation of the same greatest hits.
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Maybe the sharpied draft will one day be available at the Trump Presidential Library.
 
#29,483
#29,483
AM64 said:
A "dumb question" on the way. We have three branches of government with dedicated duties. You are right; congress doles out the money, but even that is with input from the executive branch since the executive branch is essentially the operations branch with budgetary needs for actions and staffing. After all how would congress supposedly know what a three letter branch coming under control of the president would need if not for input from the executive branch. Without doubt, the originators of our government understood how unwieldy congresses would be as an operations branch and delegated that to the executive branch - first hint: the name. So on to the question. Why would you supposed that with that delegation of authority, the founding fathers would have not given the chief executive (CEO) the authority for day to day governmental operations to include timing and go "no go" decisions?

A funky little example of an executive vs a bureaucracy. Let's suppose a congress delegated $50B in spending for the government of Alamania, and the just before the check went into the mail, Alamania was overthrown by an unfriendly group. Do you still think the president should abide by congressional mandate and send the money to a sworn enemy of the US? If we are arguing about withholding money for Ukraine, the why aren't we arguing about withholding F-35s to Turkey, and why did we not have this kind of "crisis" when we stopped F-14 parts to Iran years ago? I'm pretty sure we all know the answers and how politics perverts good ole common sense.
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Your hypothetical scenario is not applicable to the circumstances involving the Ukraine and Donald Trump. Trump's purpose behind withholding the military aid to the Ukraine was to use it as leverage against their President's willingness, not to assist the United States at large or to put an end to corruption in the Ukraine, but rather to assist his own re-election campaign. That is where the abuse of power comes in to play. Trump's actions were not about rooting out corruption in the Ukraine. They were completely motivated by his own self-serving interest in politically damaging the front-runner for the nomination of the Democratic Party in 2020. Nobody believes that Donald Trump would have been prodding President Zelensky to announce an investigation into the Bidens, if Joe wasn't running for President.
 
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#29,484
#29,484
BowlBrother85 said:
That same CNN poll only has Trump's approval rating at 44%... I guess they are only reliable when it serves your agenda though, right? It's funny how conservatives on here are so dismissive of polls and how they will always bring up the 2016 election... unless the poll says what you want it to say, in which case, you post it here.
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News flash: Current congressional approval rating 24% - disapproval 72% ... 3% can't decide.
 
#29,485
#29,485
BowlBrother85 said:
Your hypothetical scenario is not applicable to the circumstances involving the Ukraine and Donald Trump. Trump's purpose behind withholding the military aid to the Ukraine was to use it as leverage against their President's willingness, not to assist the United States at large or to put an end to corruption in the Ukraine, but rather to assist his own re-election campaign. That is where the abuse of power comes in to play. Trump's actions were not about rooting out corruption in the Ukraine. They were completely motivated by his own self-serving interest in politically damaging the front-runner for the nomination of the Democratic Party in 2020. Nobody believes that Donald Trump would have been prodding President Zelensky to announce an investigation into the Bidens, if Joe wasn't running for President.
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that is all conjecture.
 
#29,488
#29,488
AM64 said:
News flash: Current congressional approval rating 24% - disapproval 72% ... 3% can't decide.
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News flash: Donald Trump's Real Clear Politics Average Approval Rating currently sits at 44.1% and it has still never been above the 46.2% that he was elected with in 2016. Trump has a serious problem with women, especially. Trump's approval rating among women is only 34%... and this seems to be even lower in our suburbs. He has a very low ceiling and it's not getting better.
 
#29,489
#29,489
BowlBrother85 said:
Your hypothetical scenario is not applicable to the circumstances involving the Ukraine and Donald Trump. Trump's purpose behind withholding the military aid to the Ukraine was to use it as leverage against their President's willingness, not to assist the United States at large or to put an end to corruption in the Ukraine, but rather to assist his own re-election campaign. That is where the abuse of power comes in to play. Trump's actions were not about rooting out corruption in the Ukraine. They were completely motivated by his own self-serving interest in politically damaging the front-runner for the nomination of the Democratic Party in 2020. Nobody believes that Donald Trump would have been prodding President Zelensky to announce an investigation into the Bidens, if Joe wasn't running for President.
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The great lib foot stomp and "Well, that's different!" Do you really think Mueller and a lot of other Trump challenges aren't simply over the fact that Trump isn't a dim?

Up til now the GOP has been better sports about this kind of nonsense; I'm guessing after this debacle, the gloves are off. Too bad the pendulum swings both ways, and your side finally pushed it into the unstable zone.
 
#29,490
#29,490
BowlBrother85 said:
News flash: Donald Trump's Real Clear Politics Average Approval Rating currently sits at 44.1% and it has still never been above the 46.2% that he was elected with in 2016. Trump has a serious problem with women, especially. Trump's approval rating among women is only 34%... and this seems to be even lower in our suburbs. He has a very low ceiling and it's not getting better.
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Well, damn, and women have always been so rational about everything.
 
#29,491
#29,491
utvols88 said:
that is all conjecture.
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No, it's not. Trump did encourage Zelensky to go on CNN and announce that he was opening an investigation into the Bidens. Trump did not care if any such investigation actually happened. He just wanted the announcement to take place and if not for the whistleblower's complaint, it would have happened. These actions by Trump were strictly political and motivated by a self-serving agenda.
 
#29,493
#29,493
BowlBrother85 said:
No, it's not. Trump did encourage Zelensky to go on CNN and announce that he was opening an investigation into the Bidens. Trump did not care if any such investigation actually happened. He just wanted the announcement to take place and if not for the whistleblower's complaint, it would have happened. These actions by Trump were strictly political and motivated by a self-serving agenda.
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That's what you think the motivation was. Conjecture. He could also be bitter about the russia nonsense that jes been obsessed with trying to find the other sides misdeeds. would be compulsive for him to do but that guess is as much of one as yours.
 
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#29,495
#29,495
AM64 said:
A "dumb question" on the way. We have three branches of government with dedicated duties. You are right; congress doles out the money, but even that is with input from the executive branch since the executive branch is essentially the operations branch with budgetary needs for actions and staffing. After all how would congress supposedly know what a three letter branch coming under control of the president would need if not for input from the executive branch. Without doubt, the originators of our government understood how unwieldy congresses would be as an operations branch and delegated that to the executive branch - first hint: the name. So on to the question. Why would you supposed that with that delegation of authority, the founding fathers would have not given the chief executive (CEO) the authority for day to day governmental operations to include timing and go "no go" decisions?

A funky little example of an executive vs a bureaucracy. Let's suppose a congress delegated $50B in spending for the government of Alamania, and the just before the check went into the mail, Alamania was overthrown by an unfriendly group. Do you still think the president should abide by congressional mandate and send the money to a sworn enemy of the US? If we are arguing about withholding money for Ukraine, the why aren't we arguing about withholding F-35s to Turkey, and why did we not have this kind of "crisis" when we stopped F-14 parts to Iran years ago? I'm pretty sure we all know the answers and how politics perverts good ole common sense.
Click to expand...
What BowlBrother said.
 
#29,497
#29,497
utvols88 said:
That's what you think the motivation was. Conjecture. He could also be bitter about the russia nonsense that jes been obsessed with trying to find the other sides misdeeds. would be compulsive for him to do but that guess is as much of one as yours.
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That probably did play a role in this... and Trump withholding the military aid over that would still constitute an abuse of power.
 
#29,498
#29,498
BowlBrother85 said:
That probably did play a role in this... and Trump withholding the military aid over that would still constitute an abuse of power.
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Only if it was a corrupt investigation. Like the FISA situation. I don't mean that to be against you. I mean that was an example. If documents are falsified, sources are not credible and it still got pushed like the russian collusion accusation, I'd want his ass gone.
 
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#29,500
#29,500
utvols88 said:
That's what you think the motivation was. Conjecture. He could also be bitter about the russia nonsense that jes been obsessed with trying to find the other sides misdeeds. would be compulsive for him to do but that guess is as much of one as yours.
Click to expand...

They've already forgotten all the screeching about the Trump clan business dealings ... generally in fields they actually knew something about. Apparently emoluments and family business ties evolving from elected office is only an issue when republicans are in power.
 
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