The Impeachment Thread

#29,653
#29,653
BowlBrother85 said:
And it is not "un-credible" to believe that Trump leveraged military aid to the Ukraine against President Zelensky's willingness to perform a personal political favor for Donald Trump. That is what Gordon Sondland believed.
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It is un-credible to suggest: 1) the delay put our national security at risk; 2) that the House had to move fast to prevent Trump from stealing (with foreign help) the election; 3) that what Trump did represents a clear and present danger and/or puts our very democracy at risk.

All these are talking points from Dems. Rational people recognize they are exaggerating at best.
 
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#29,654
#29,654
volinbham said:
There have been 6 since then and 4 show against as the "majority" as you define it while the other 2 have a tie. Looking at them as representations of how people feel including neither for nor against (which is a legit position) NONE of them including the Fox poll have a majority for impeachment. You have to go back to October to find any above 50% and the highest I can find is 53%.

Impeachment is an extreme solution. When less than 1/2 the electorate (or even exactly 1/2) is for it that probably suggests it's a bad idea.
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How people feel about impeachment is mostly split down party lines. However, the same was true when Republicans impeached Bill Clinton. Republicans felt they needed to take a stand for what was right, even if that meant a partisan impeachment. Maybe the same is true here? Republicans knew damn well that they weren't going to get the 67 votes in the Senate needed to remove Bill Clinton from office. The impeachment in the House was very partisan. There is no difference here.
 
#29,656
#29,656
volinbham said:
agree. I'm pretty sure they floated the idea to the Ukraine but I'm also betting they were going to release the aid in any event.

Not impeachable IMHO. The majority of the country agrees.
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What type of majority is that?
If the majority disagreed by the same percent, would that carry significant weight?
 
#29,657
#29,657
volinbham said:
It is un-credible to suggest: 1) the delay put our national security at risk; 2) that the House had to move fast to prevent Trump from stealing (with foreign help) the election; 3) that what Trump did represents a clear and present danger and/or puts our very democracy at risk.

All these are talking points from Dems. Rational people recognize they are exaggerating at best.
Click to expand...
Uncredible??? Is that a word now?
 
#29,658
#29,658
BowlBrother85 said:
How people feel about impeachment is mostly split down party lines. However, the same was true when Republicans impeached Bill Clinton. Republicans felt they needed to take a stand for what was right, even if that meant a partisan impeachment. Maybe the same is true here?
Click to expand...

As a Republican at the time I was against Clinton's impeachment.

The numbers for Independents are pretty bad for Dems thinking impeachment is a good idea.

If impeachment isn't as least somewhat bipartisan both in Congress and the electorate it's a bad idea. Clinton was a bad idea; this one is a bad idea
 
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#29,659
#29,659
luthervol said:
Frogs in the slowly heated pale of water would be proud.
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Why are you worried about frogs when wolves are at the gate ? (IF) the post up from yours is true about a judge being removed from the bench for bribery and serving on a committee that sets the rules and standards for impeachment of a president .. we have wolves in the livestock pen .
 
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#29,663
#29,663
BowlBrother85 said:
How people feel about impeachment is mostly split down party lines. However, the same was true when Republicans impeached Bill Clinton. Republicans felt they needed to take a stand for what was right, even if that meant a partisan impeachment. Maybe the same is true here? Republicans knew damn well that they weren't going to get the 67 votes in the Senate needed to remove Bill Clinton from office. The impeachment in the House was very partisan. There is no difference here.
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I think that the outcome was still somewhat up in the air up until the vote. I don't remember it being a foregone conclusion, one way or the other.
 
#29,666
#29,666
volinbham said:
As a Republican at the time I was against Clinton's impeachment.

The numbers for Independents are pretty bad for Dems thinking impeachment is a good idea.

If impeachment isn't as least somewhat bipartisan both in Congress and the electorate it's a bad idea. Clinton was a bad idea; this one is a bad idea
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LOL! Once again, that also depends on which poll you are looking at. Support for impeachment has increased from 38% to 45% in the latest Fox News poll. I agree that impeaching Clinton was a bad idea for Republicans in 1998. One significant difference between Trump and Clinton though, Clinton's approval rating was already in the mid-50's at the time. Trump has never expanded his base of support. There isn't any indication, at least so far, that there is going to be any public backlash for impeaching Trump.
 
#29,668
#29,668
volinbham said:
I don't understand the first question but yes if it's 55-45 either way then a nuclear option like impeachment is a bad idea.
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Democrats tried their best to bring public opinion along with all the hearings, but Nielsen ratings for the Impeachment Show did not measure up nor did they manage to change many folks' opinions except those in the middle; and most of those which changed, evidently went against impeachment. Nancy needs another martini.
 
#29,669
#29,669
volinbham said:
It is un-credible to suggest: 1) the delay put our national security at risk; 2) that the House had to move fast to prevent Trump from stealing (with foreign help) the election; 3) that what Trump did represents a clear and present danger and/or puts our very democracy at risk.

All these are talking points from Dems. Rational people recognize they are exaggerating at best.
Click to expand...
It is "un-credible" to suggest: 1) it was a perfect phone call; 2)Ukraine didn't even know the aid had been withheld, 3) Trump said no quid pro quo so there was no quid pro quo

All these are talking points from Repubs. Rational people recognize they are exaggerating at best, blatantly deceiving more likely.
 
#29,672
#29,672
0nelilreb said:
Why are you worried about frogs when wolves are at the gate ? (IF) the post up from yours is true about a judge being removed from the bench for bribery and serving on a committee that sets the rules and standards for impeachment of a president .. we have wolves in the livestock pen .
Click to expand...
I've consistently been worried about the most dangerous wolf of all. You should be asking yourself and others that question.
 
#29,673
#29,673
BowlBrother85 said:
LOL! Once again, that also depends on which poll you are looking at. Support for impeachment has increased from 38% to 45% in the latest Fox News poll. I agree that impeaching Clinton was a bad idea for Republicans in 1998. One significant difference between Trump and Clinton though, Clinton's approval rating was already in the mid-50's at the time. Trump has never expanded his base of support. There isn't any indication, at least so far, that there is going to be any public backlash for impeaching Trump.
Click to expand...
Screen Shot 2019-12-17 at 7.48.17 PM.png
 
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#29,674
#29,674
BowlBrother85 said:
LOL! Once again, that also depends on which poll you are looking at. Support for impeachment has increased from 38% to 45% in the latest Fox News poll. I agree that impeaching Clinton was a bad idea for Republicans in 1998. One significant difference between Trump and Clinton though, Clinton's approval rating was already in the mid-50's at the time. Trump has never expanded his base of support. There isn't any indication, at least so far, that there is going to be any public backlash for impeaching Trump.
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You think he hasn't expanded his support, but you would be wrong. The RNC picked up 600,000 new donors since the impeachment movement.

RNC Says It Added 600K New Donors Since Start of Impeachment – [your]NEWS

The Trump campaign has also identified thousands of people who haven't voted in years that are attending various Trump rallies.
 
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#29,675
#29,675
0nelilreb said:
Why are you worried about frogs when wolves are at the gate ? (IF) the post up from yours is true about a judge being removed from the bench for bribery and serving on a committee that sets the rules and standards for impeachment of a president .. we have wolves in the livestock pen .
Click to expand...

They don't think there is anything wrong as long as you have a (D) beside their name.
 
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