The Great 2022 and Beyond Recession Thread

[hog88]

My childhood home. Think they paid 17K and estimate today is $354K..crazy

Looks good for being 60 some years old.

 

[Orangeburst]

I tell you what..people today are spoiled and purchase way too big, spending on internet, phones..No wonder half the nation is broke.
Those were good simple times. More kid neighbors than you could shake a stick.

 

[Orangeburst]

Looks good for being 60 some years old.

quality was a lot better than the garbage they use for starter homes these days.

 

[hog88]

quality was a lot better than the garbage they use for starter homes these days.

It has always stuck with me since I was a kid, when my dad built our house and the flooring people came one of them said something along the lines of "don't see this very often" "these rooms are square".

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

A company's culture can't be developed in a WFH environment.

You think BudLight might have had a different fate if the marketing team that made the Dylan M. decision had worked in STL and brought up in that culture instead of WFH from a coastal city....

 

[LouderVol]

Then find a new job @LouderVol

I like my job, and like I said requiring people to work in the office doesn't change anything for me. I am already full time in the office and I only worked from home so I could care for my mom after a surgery.

Doesn't mean I think its good practice or something that businesses should be pushing. Hog tried to throw some crap "study" out there to support his push, and hasn't had a reason after I pointed out how crap they were. IMO its merely a push from the older generation who don't actually do anything themselves who need to justify their own jobs so they need butts in seats to be able to claim they are "managing".

call it as it is, don't make up bs. hog was even throwing the idea of it being a benefit of a recession, so that the job market tanks and companies can more easily enforce WFO. crap.

 

[allvol123]

I like my job, and like I said requiring people to work in the office doesn't change anything for me. I am already full time in the office and I only worked from home so I could care for my mom after a surgery.

Doesn't mean I think its good practice or something that businesses should be pushing. Hog tried to throw some crap "study" out there to support his push, and hasn't had a reason after I pointed out how crap they were. IMO its merely a push from the older generation who don't actually do anything themselves who need to justify their own jobs so they need butts in seats to be able to claim they are "managing".

call it as it is, don't make up bs. hog was even throwing the idea of it being a benefit of a recession, so that the job market tanks and companies can more easily enforce WFO. crap.

You’re throwing a wide net with no real substance to back it up. Your assertion also doesn’t even add up at the present time. This is supposedly a terrific job market for employees and this is when the “evil companies” are going to choose to make their company less attractive to current and prospective employees? Wuh? Just for kicks and ego?

 

[McDad]

A company's culture can't be developed in a WFH environment.

You think BudLight might have had a different fate if the marketing team that made the Dylan M. decision had worked in STL and brought up in that culture instead of WFH from a coastal city....

Sure it can. Culture starts with communication. As long as there is communication, there is culture.

We have a culture here in the VN PF and we dont gather in person during the week.

EtA: a culture of bad communication can exist as well.

 

[hog88]

I like my job, and like I said requiring people to work in the office doesn't change anything for me. I am already full time in the office and I only worked from home so I could care for my mom after a surgery.

Doesn't mean I think its good practice or something that businesses should be pushing. Hog tried to throw some crap "study" out there to support his push, and hasn't had a reason after I pointed out how crap they were. IMO its merely a push from the older generation who don't actually do anything themselves who need to justify their own jobs so they need butts in seats to be able to claim they are "managing".

call it as it is, don't make up bs. hog was even throwing the idea of it being a benefit of a recession, so that the job market tanks and companies can more easily enforce WFO. crap.

You’re a pissy little twit today.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Sure it can. Culture starts with communication. As long as there is communication, there is culture.

We have a culture here in the VN PF and we dont gather in person during the week.

EtA: a culture of bad communication can exist as well.

You think the disdain the marketing team (in the Bud Light example) had for the brand and its customers would have been as strong if they were physically located in STL at the plant/HQ instead of a Park Avenue apartment in NYC?

 

[LouderVol]

Sounds like you need to start your own firm and run it the way you think is best. IMO "my way or the highway" isn't a good way to run a business but as long as you're signing the back of a check instead of the front you have to deal with what the boss likes or doesn't like. And the boss isn't always lying, sometimes they know more about what's going on than you do.

then the boss should be able to clearly explain their stance instead of lying to their employees.

when Covid was happening and everything was going to crap, my job sat us down and explained everything out, including the pay cut we all took. made sense, no hard feelings, bosses were making sound business decisions and were able to express it.
When a specific benefit changed, company would sit down and explain, made sense, no hard feelings, bosses making sound business decisions and were able to express it.
Changes to insurance, 401k, PTO policies, heck even when they have requested us to work on weekends or after hours, they could always sit down, explain their thought process and their decisions.
Work from the office? Because I said so. I haven't seen one CEO, report, or large study show a good reason for it. Its the crap you threw out, studies that don't say what they think they say. opinions about productivity, but very little if any facts.
I have been working in my industry for more than a decade now; and I have been responsible for billings, collections, contract negotiations, work loads, pay discussions, pretty much everything except for the direct ability to fire/hire. I know I can turn a significant profit on multiple projects, and manage my team, because I have done the entire process before, and did so for several years in my last job. I have been responsible for someone getting fired, had to make that call and have that conversation. I know enough to recognize when something is crap and when something has merit.

this is crap, and unless/until someone can actually present something that says otherwise I am not going to take the word of the one set of people who benefit from it.

 

[McDad]

You think the disdain the marketing team (in the Bud Light example) had for the brand and its customers would have been as strong if they were physically located in STL at the plant/HQ instead of a Park Avenue apartment in NYC?

Are there no honchos located in St Louis with the audacity to speak up?

 

[allvol123]

then the boss should be able to clearly explain their stance instead of lying to their employees.

when Covid was happening and everything was going to crap, my job sat us down and explained everything out, including the pay cut we all took. made sense, no hard feelings, bosses were making sound business decisions and were able to express it.
When a specific benefit changed, company would sit down and explain, made sense, no hard feelings, bosses making sound business decisions and were able to express it.
Changes to insurance, 401k, PTO policies, heck even when they have requested us to work on weekends or after hours, they could always sit down, explain their thought process and their decisions.
Work from the office? Because I said so. I haven't seen one CEO, report, or large study show a good reason for it. Its the crap you threw out, studies that don't say what they think they say. opinions about productivity, but very little if any facts.
I have been working in my industry for more than a decade now; and I have been responsible for billings, collections, contract negotiations, work loads, pay discussions, pretty much everything except for the direct ability to fire/hire. I know I can turn a significant profit on multiple projects, and manage my team, because I have done the entire process before, and did so for several years in my last job. I have been responsible for someone getting fired, had to make that call and have that conversation. I know enough to recognize when something is crap and when something has merit.

this is crap, and unless/until someone can actually present something that says otherwise I am not going to take the word of the one set of people who benefit from it.

So you acknowledge they benefit from it…..hmmm…

 

[LouderVol]

You’re throwing a wide net with no real substance to back it up. Your assertion also doesn’t even add up at the present time. This is supposedly a terrific job market for employees and this is when the “evil companies” are going to choose to make their company less attractive to current and prospective employees? Wuh? Just for kicks and ego?

like I said, for the middle managers. the ones with a voice. instead of adapting their own job, or losing it, they are requiring that people come back in so they can be managed, despite there being no measurable loss in production.

hog pointed out a singular case of someone running a side hustle during company time, as if it was the first time its ever happened, and was only possible because of WFH. been going on long before WFH.

don't piss on me and tell me its raining. I just want a straight answer and no one has even attempted it.

 

[LouderVol]

You’re a pissy little twit today.

haven't had to resort to name calling.

 

[LouderVol]

So you acknowledge they benefit from it…..hmmm…

the bosses? yes. i said so at the start.

I said that IF there is a benefit the employee should also see a benefit as well. right now its a loss for the employee and a gain for the employer, and thats not a positive thing.

 

[allvol123]

the bosses? yes. i said so at the start.

I said that IF there is a benefit the employee should also see a benefit as well. right now its a loss for the employee and a gain for the employer, and thats not a positive thing.

You’re asking why the bosses are doing it and claiming there is no real benefit from it. They are doing it for shtts and giggles, ego, etc.

Then you turn around and admit they do see benefit yet still ask why are they doing this. Wtf?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Are there no honchos located in St Louis with the audacity to speak up?

The CEO isn't getting involved in day to day marketing activities (and given his incompetence, it wouldn't matter).

You had WFH marketing people in NYC who didn't meet with other brand stakeholders (vendors, distributors, manufacturing, core customers) because they were 1,000 miles away. A Zoom call isn't the same..

WFH isn't a one size fits all approach....

 

[McDad]

The CEO isn't getting involved in day to day marketing activities (and given his incompetence, it wouldn't matter).

You had WFH marketing people in NYC who didn't meet with other brand stakeholders (vendors, distributors, manufacturing, core customers) because they were 1,000 miles away. A Zoom call isn't the same..

WFH isn't a one size fits all approach....

I am not saying WFH is applicable to all equally.

I am refuting your notion that WFH can't create or nurture culture. It can and does when done correctly.

 

[LouderVol]

You’re asking why the bosses are doing it and claiming there is no real benefit from it. They are doing it for shtts and giggles, ego, etc.

Then you turn around and admit they do see benefit yet still ask why are they doing this. Wtf?

yeah, keeping their (boss) jobs is a benefit to them. that is why they are doing it. you keep WFH and a bunch of middle management becomes unemployed. once the Covid protections went away a bunch of people had to start justifying their job again, and it wasn't the people doing the work.

 

[allvol123]

yeah, keeping their (boss) jobs is a benefit to them. that is why they are doing it. you keep WFH and a bunch of middle management becomes unemployed. once the Covid protections went away a bunch of people had to start justifying their job again, and it wasn't the people doing the work.

Dang, your dreams of bloated middle management being let go, seem dashed.

 

[hog88]

then the boss should be able to clearly explain their stance instead of lying to their employees.

when Covid was happening and everything was going to crap, my job sat us down and explained everything out, including the pay cut we all took. made sense, no hard feelings, bosses were making sound business decisions and were able to express it.
When a specific benefit changed, company would sit down and explain, made sense, no hard feelings, bosses making sound business decisions and were able to express it.
Changes to insurance, 401k, PTO policies, heck even when they have requested us to work on weekends or after hours, they could always sit down, explain their thought process and their decisions.
Work from the office? Because I said so. I haven't seen one CEO, report, or large study show a good reason for it. Its the crap you threw out, studies that don't say what they think they say. opinions about productivity, but very little if any facts.
I have been working in my industry for more than a decade now; and I have been responsible for billings, collections, contract negotiations, work loads, pay discussions, pretty much everything except for the direct ability to fire/hire. I know I can turn a significant profit on multiple projects, and manage my team, because I have done the entire process before, and did so for several years in my last job. I have been responsible for someone getting fired, had to make that call and have that conversation. I know enough to recognize when something is crap and when something has merit.

this is crap, and unless/until someone can actually present something that says otherwise I am not going to take the word of the one set of people who benefit from it.

If you feel that your boss is lying to you maybe you should leave but also your bosses don't owe you an explanation for their decisions. You don't know everything that they know and don't have the big picture, maybe some employees were slipping and HR advised them not to make exceptions. They're not going to tell you that Bobby, Bubba and the billing dept are declining they're just going to tell you what the new policy is. You are an employee, if you want to be in the know be the boss.

Plus drops in productivity are not always glaring and obvious to the people without all the numbers. In our case I started to see an increase in non billable hours and equipment usage, typically it was 4-6 hours per crew a week but it started to gradually increase to between 8 and 10 on average and when the total load for a crew is $200+ per our 3-4 additional hours that are not billable adds up across a fleet of 18. Invoice turn went from an average of 4 days to 6 doesn't sound like a big deal but when you deal with customers on a 60-75 day pay schedule from receipt and that invoice has to be in the system by the 10th a couple days makes a difference in cash flow. My people for the most part did great working from home but since returning to the office we're hitting our KPIs.

 

[hog88]

I am not saying WFH is applicable to all equally.

I am refuting your notion that WFH can't create or nurture culture. It can and does when done correctly.

I believe this.

 

[hog88]

haven't had to resort to name calling.

Sorry for the comment but you do seem angry and unhappy with your posts.

 

[LouderVol]

Sorry for the comment but you do seem angry and unhappy with your posts.

angry and unhappy with the lack of logic in what I believe is an unjustified move.