The flex

#1
allvol21

allvol21

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#1
I know this is coming from what was learned under Dr. Tom Davis. I also realize that it's our base offense if you will, But I'm ready to see a change in the half court offense. Lets see some 4 out and 1 in when tyler is at the 4. Do you all think we are gonna see as much flex as we did last year. Now that pearl is wanting to go back to more of an up tempo game instead of the 25 second possesions?
 
#2
#2
allvol21 said:
I know this is coming from what was learned under Dr. Tom Davis. I also realize that it's our base offense if you will, But I'm ready to see a change in the half court offense. Lets see some 4 out and 1 in when tyler is at the 4. Do you all think we are gonna see as much flex as we did last year. Now that pearl is wanting to go back to more of an up tempo game instead of the 25 second possesions?
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I don't think so. Like it or not, that is Pearl's style. I think he might work on doing some more isolations to Tyler and Wayne out of the flex, but I expect the base offense to remain the flex as much as it always has. I'm not necessarily a fan because I would much prefer a motion offense, but I don't see it happening.
 
#3
#3
for those that understand the flex better than I, have we been running the flex the majority of the time? there's a lot of pass-it-around-the-horn with 4 players on the perimeter, but I don't see a lot of "switching" (for lack of a better word) that you'd expect in the flex?

do we just not have the players to run it all the time?
 
#4
#4
Daddy Gee said:
for those that understand the flex better than I, have we been running the flex the majority of the time? there's a lot of pass-it-around-the-horn with 4 players on the perimeter, but I don't see a lot of "switching" (for lack of a better word) that you'd expect in the flex?

do we just not have the players to run it all the time?
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We just have guys running flex cuts on the baseline while we space our guards way out from the 3 point line. The Flex is actually the base-- you will say Pearl call out a play with about 15 seconds left on the shot clock and we go from the base flex to a specific play.
 
#5
#5
kiffinator13 said:
We just have guys running flex cuts on the baseline while we space our guards way out from the 3 point line. The Flex is actually the base-- you will say Pearl call out a play with about 15 seconds left on the shot clock and we go from the base flex to a specific play.
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From what I have seen, we do a lot of pretending to run the flex, then jump into something else when plan A doesn't work. Leave it to say that the half-court offense isn't the part of our game I'm most impressed with.

I think the flex is a fundamentally sound offense. It requires, however, a few ingredients to work like it should:

1) At least moderately interchangeable parts. Centers have to go the elbow and guards have to go to the blocks. This is somewhat de-emphasized by not downscreening by the guards, which results, from my observation, in a lot of guys standing around at the top of the key.

2) Patient, disciplined, physical teams that screen well and turn the offense over until they can rub a defender off or cause the defense to collapse inside. This is difficult in the era of the shot clock, and doesn't really seem to fit with UT's recent personality.
 
#6
#6
cotton said:
From what I have seen, we do a lot of pretending to run the flex, then jump into something else when plan A doesn't work. Leave it to say that the half-court offense isn't the part of our game I'm most impressed with.

I think the flex is a fundamentally sound offense. It requires, however, a few ingredients to work like it should:

1) At least moderately interchangeable parts. Centers have to go the elbow and guards have to go to the blocks. This is somewhat de-emphasized by not downscreening by the guards, which results, from my observation, in a lot of guys standing around at the top of the key.

2) Patient, disciplined, physical teams that screen well and turn the offense over until they can rub a defender off or cause the defense to collapse inside. This is difficult in the era of the shot clock, and doesn't really seem to fit with UT's recent personality.
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We don't run a traditional flex offense. We just have guys on the baseline running flex cuts and then replacing. No Center ever comes to the elbow because all the movement is taking place on the baseline. Pearl calls this cutters I believe.
 
#7
#7
kiffinator13 said:
We don't run a traditional flex offense. We just have guys on the baseline running flex cuts and then replacing. No Center ever comes to the elbow because all the movement is taking place on the baseline. Pearl calls this cutters I believe.
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Isn't that what I just said?
 
#8
#8
the Flex is the simpliest offense in the world. i've said this 100 times but i'll say it again. i learned this offense in jr. pro. we ran it in jr. high. its a joke
 
#9
#9
Vol Mania 21 said:
the Flex is the simpliest offense in the world. i've said this 100 times but i'll say it again. i learned this offense in jr. pro. we ran it in jr. high. its a joke
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I don't really know what this means.

The flex is as complicated as any other offense I know. If you have the right personel doing what they are supposed to be doing, you are going to get open looks out of it if you turn it over often enough. The fact that you ran it in Jr. Pro really doesn't change that.

I'm not sure that we have the right personel, I know that they often aren't doing what they are supposed to be doing, and I don't know that you can cycle through the offense enough times to make it work with a shot clock in play even if we were patient enough to do it. The offense, though, is sound.
 
#11
#11
Vol Mania 21 said:
the flex is easy 2 guard. pearl's flex is as basic as it comes
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The flex is impossible to guard, given good execution and enough time. There are 3 options to defend the flex screen--switch it, fight through it, or help on it. Any of the three results in an open man somewhere.

Pearl's flex, with the guards staying on top, makes it easier to help. It also promotes laziness at the guards, and with help clogging up the flex screen, I think it promotes people going through the motions instead of making good screens and crisp cuts. It is the trade-off Pearl's offense makes for not getting guards trapped inside or centers on the peremiter.

The flex is not good at getting isolations for Tyler Smith or Wayne Chism or Scotty Hopson when they have a mismatch, which I think should be a strength of the team. The real problem with it, though, is in its execution, not its design, IMO.
 
#14
#14
cotton said:
The flex is impossible to guard, given good execution and enough time. There are 3 options to defend the flex screen--switch it, fight through it, or help on it. Any of the three results in an open man somewhere.

Pearl's flex, with the guards staying on top, makes it easier to help. It also promotes laziness at the guards, and with help clogging up the flex screen, I think it promotes people going through the motions instead of making good screens and crisp cuts. It is the trade-off Pearl's offense makes for not getting guards trapped inside or centers on the peremiter.

The flex is not good at getting isolations for Tyler Smith or Wayne Chism or Scotty Hopson when they have a mismatch, which I think should be a strength of the team. The real problem with it, though, is in its execution, not its design, IMO.
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I've never been that impressed with the flex that I would say that is unguardable. I think that if the man in help just communicates on the flex cut, it is pretty simple to stop. If you get beat on the flex cut, it is a mistake somewhere by the defense. A good defensive team will not give up layups on a flex cut.
 
#15
#15
kiffinator13 said:
I've never been that impressed with the flex that I would say that is unguardable. I think that if the man in help just communicates on the flex cut, it is pretty simple to stop. If you get beat on the flex cut, it is a mistake somewhere by the defense. A good defensive team will not give up layups on a flex cut.
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Then they will be giving up shots on the elbow or the corner.

Look, there is nothing magical about the flex. It has a screen on the baseline which is really hard to defend without help. That help opens up opportunities elsewhere. Any good offense will cause problems for the defense, and the flex is in that category.
 
#16
#16
the problem with the offense is not the offense itself as much as it is the players in it. No one complained when we had lofton and jsmith knocking down open threes that were created by the flex...with that being said he should recruit guys to play in his offensive and defensive schemes which i dont think he has down that well in my opinion
 
#17
#17
cotton said:
Any good offense will cause problems for the defense, and the flex is in that category.
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Give me a quick, physical defense like the ones Huggs put on the floor at UC or Pitt has lately and I'll choke the life out of the flex.
 
#18
#18
I played basketball for the laziest coach on earth Donald Dodgen and we ran the flex in high school. After he "taught" it to the new players each year he basically slept the rest of the season.
 
#19
#19
funny that i've seen pearl continue to run the flex when a team zones. regardless on the baseline i'd keep my 3, 4, 5 guys down low switching the screens and leave my 1,2 guards up top. its that easy
 
#21
#21
JZVOL said:
I played basketball for the laziest coach on earth Donald Dodgen and we ran the flex in high school. After he "taught" it to the new players each year he basically slept the rest of the season.
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so that's why we beat you guys all the time? :)
 
#22
#22
utvolpj said:
so that's why we beat you guys all the time? :)
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It for real is. He was/is the worst coach in any sport I ever played for. His idea of coaching was to say try harder or play better.

We did win the district tourney my senior year despite him though and had enough players to always win over 20 games but everyone hated that guy.

Of course all the Bearden guys said Blevins was an ass, but they all played hard.
 
#24
#24
hatvol96 said:
Give me a quick, physical defense like the ones Huggs put on the floor at UC or Pitt has lately and I'll choke the life out of the flex.
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I think the difference with us, Hat, is that we don't usually try to score out of the flex. The flex is just used to burn clock when we aren't fast breaking. We then usually run some sort of set play for someone with about 15 seconds on the shot-clock. Is that the way you see it as well?
 
#25
#25
kiffinator13 said:
I think the difference with us, Hat, is that we don't usually try to score out of the flex. The flex is just used to burn clock when we aren't fast breaking. We then usually run some sort of set play for someone with about 15 seconds on the shot-clock. Is that the way you see it as well?
Click to expand...
I don't see much discernable structure in Tennessee's halfcourt offense.
 
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