The effort is there ... all you Butch naysayers need to pay attention

[fernandomike]

Butch has not historically had issues with penalties and turnovers. I doubt he forgot how to stress fundamentals.

 

[MWAVolfan]

These guys are playing to the end no matter what ... we have a very bright future here with Jones. Times are good

The last few Fulmer years and certainly the Dooley fiasco those teams had slot of quit in them. Not these players

I would not say this team plays to the end. I would say they don't start playing until the end.

The complete lack of preparation and ball skills to start the game is in my opinion inexcusable. If you are a good enough team to come back from being down 28-7 then you should be a good enough team to not be down 28-7 in the first place.

Even our defense looks like garbage in the first half of games and then they finally show up.

There is no way we should have lost to A&M. We are a better team than they are when we play like we should for 60 minutes.

 

[BeardedVol]

Butch has not historically had issues with penalties and turnovers. I doubt he forgot how to stress fundamentals.

Maybe not historically, but this season, we have wracked up 40 penalties with 350+ yardage loss already, and it doesn't seem to be improving from game to game.

 

[MWAVolfan]

if we go 10-2 consistently, we'll be in our fair share of SEC title games. and maybe occaisonally when we win the title, maybe we're in contention for a playoff berth.

i don't know. i want SEC titles too. but in today's day and age, it's hard. hell, Alabama has the thing sewn up just about every year, we're all playing for 2nd place until......

so for me......i want to be relevant in the conference and division as long as we can each and every year.

division
conference
playoff
gravy

if we're doing #1 on a more consistent basis, then it opens up the door for the other stuff, and you just take that for what it is. so kind of like during the fulmer years....i'm hesitant to say he has to do this x # of times etc...cause it's so unpredictable.

but if we're a 9 or 10 win team year in, year out, chances are we're accomplishing #1 fairly regularly....we're beating 1 or 2 of the 3 big rivals pretty regularly, going to good bowl games, and at the end of the day....i guess yeah, i'd be good with that. if we do those things regularly, then there will be opportunities for 2, 3, 4....

Going 10-2 consistently is for losers like Georgia and LSU and Oklahoma.

Sure, we will take 10-2 right now, but if we settle for 10-2 consistently then we have missed the point and are undervaluing the history of our program.

 

[Behr]

And...there it is. While it is true Coach Butch has done a great job getting us where we are, the question remains whether he can take us where we need to be.

So
1) Can CBJ take us to a national championship team and one that often competes for a national championship?

2) If CBJ is unable to do that, are we, as Volnation, satisfied with a 10-2 ceiling and missing the playoffs and likely the SECCG year after year?

This. We know the level of talent that we have. We've seen the pure athleticism of this team. What we haven't seen, is that talent and athleticism tooled into an even moderately consistent football team. That's coaching. You do not see this much sloppy play from perennially well-coached teams.

"And there it is" IS right.

It took me a while, but I finally got it!

You really do want Butch fired, but you don't have the balls to just come out and say it.

 

[fernandomike]

Maybe not historically, but this season, we have wracked up 40 penalties with 350+ yardage loss already, and it doesn't seem to be improving from game to game.

The most important stat is record! If you'd told me before the season that we would be top ten at this point with JRM, Sutton, and Kirkland missing game after game, I'd have called you insane.

To your point, Butch and the players in some ratio bear responsibility for our obvious struggles with executing the fundamentals. But to be fair, we have to give them a lot of credit too. They are playing their butts off. I prefer to focus on the positives while trusting our coach to fix these issues that he has historically done well with.

 

[BeardedVol]

"And there it is" IS right.

It took me a while, but I finally got it!

You really do want Butch fired, but you don't have the balls to just come out and say it.

:banghead2:

I'm not sure if you are intentionally obtuse, or you are actually unable to understand the concept of criticism. It must be very tough going through life viewing everything as black or white, good or bad, want or not want. I truly feel for the people around you.

 

[tvolsfan]

The team has come out in every game this year, looking unprepared in the first half. Let that sink in for a moment, every game, regardless of our opponent.

Whether you love or hate Jones, that sloppiness is on him as the head coach. We knew that if we came out and gave a good team free points in the first half, eventually someone was going to make us pay. A&M did just that, and so will Alabama next week.

I'm not a Butch fan and I agree with almost everything you said. However, I'm not sure it's fair to lump A&M with those other games in terms of a slow start. The first five games we looked like we didn't care in the first half. Against A&M, we simply couldn't hold on to the ball.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

Behr:

Honestly. You remind me of the Derek Dooley worshippers--you were probably their leader...fought to the death with anyone who dared question the Dools....that is until he was fired, then you never liked him anyway and moved on to the next guy.

I don't want Butch fired...I really don't think anyone really wants him fired. I think he has to prove he is worth that raise and contract extension. That is life. College football coaching, especially in the SEC, is not for thin skinned pansies. CBJ is a big boy and he can handle the criticism, I promise.

 

[BeardedVol]

The most important stat is record! If you'd told me before the season that we would be top ten at this point with JRM, Sutton, and Kirkland missing game after game, I'd have called you insane.

To your point, Butch and the players in some ratio bear responsibility for our obvious struggles with executing the fundamentals. But to be fair, we have to give them a lot of credit too. They are playing their butts off. I prefer to focus on the positives while trusting our coach to fix these issues that he has historically done well with.

Where I'm gainfully employed, whenever we postmortem a project, we look back, and gauge how many "heroic efforts" were necessary in order to finish the project within the effective project constraints. If heroic efforts became the norm on the project, something was amiss, maybe it didn't have enough manpower, or the timetable was off, or the budget was askew. The idea is that heroic efforts should not be the norm because they are not sustainable at any level over time.

The same goes for this team, it's taking heroic efforts every week, regardless of who we play, to stay competitive. It's unsustainable, and we saw that first hand this past weekend.

 

[fernandomike]

Where I'm gainfully employed, whenever we postmortem a project, we look back, and gauge how many "heroic efforts" were necessary in order to finish the project within the effective project constraints. If heroic efforts became the norm on the project, something was amiss, maybe it didn't have enough manpower, or the timetable was off, or the budget was askew. The idea is that heroic efforts should not be the norm because they are not sustainable at any level over time.

The same goes for this team, it's taking heroic efforts every week, regardless of who we play, to stay competitive. It's unsustainable, and we saw that first hand this past weekend.

Nice post! Again though, our record is what it is and that is is pretty good. I am confident that Butch is working like heck to make our means more "sustainable." I bet we trend back toward the norm regarding fumbles and penalties. What say you?

 

[tvolsfan]

The fumbles were uncharacteristic.

That's not remotely true.

 

[BeardedVol]

Nice post! Again though, our record is what it is and that is is pretty good. I am confident that Butch is working like heck to make our means more "sustainable." I bet we trend back toward the norm regarding fumbles and penalties. What say you?

If we could decrease our current penalties and fumbles per game by 25% in the last six games it would make a world of difference.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) we will likely not find out as the competition level after the TSIO drops off significantly...and the Vols should cruise on talent alone.

 

[jakez4ut]

Going 10-2 consistently is for losers like Georgia and LSU and Oklahoma.

Sure, we will take 10-2 right now, but if we settle for 10-2 consistently then we have missed the point and are undervaluing the history of our program.

all 3 of which have conf titles since our last one, 2 have national titles since our last one.

jeez. if we're on the level of LSU or Oklahoma in 10 years.....ok, call me a loser.:good!:

 

[jakez4ut]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) we will likely not find out as the competition level after the TSIO drops off significantly...and the Vols should cruise on talent alone.

well we've known that for a while, and as we all picked apart the schedule, i'd say the majority of people picked us at 10-2, losing 2 of these 4. so, that's not really news, is it?

and i siap, the biggest concern i have going forward after tsio, is that IF these issues keep presenting themselves in games, any game we play in, a loss is on the table a la the app state game.

 

[DaKoolAidisORANGE]

Evidently we have to hold Butch "accountable" before anything changes. Hard to "win" without doing so. So, I suggest we all start holding Butch "accountable" and everything will be okay.

Just post " I hold Butch accountable, dammit". In every thread you post in.

DONE. NC baby. :rock:

I hold Butch accountable, dammit!

Accountable for bringing this program back from the dead. 2 for 2 bowl wins, beating our rivals, 2 more wins each season and on pace to do it again this season, $12 mil athletic surplus. Accountability baby!

*Rivals - Florida once, Georgia twice, has a chance for Bama coming up. Oh and beat Spurrier THRICE!

 

[82_VOL_83]

if we go 10-2 consistently, we'll be in our fair share of SEC title games. and maybe occaisonally when we win the title, maybe we're in contention for a playoff berth.

i don't know. i want SEC titles too. but in today's day and age, it's hard. hell, Alabama has the thing sewn up just about every year, we're all playing for 2nd place until......

so for me......i want to be relevant in the conference and division as long as we can each and every year.

division
conference
playoff
gravy

if we're doing #1 on a more consistent basis, then it opens up the door for the other stuff, and you just take that for what it is. so kind of like during the fulmer years....i'm hesitant to say he has to do this x # of times etc...cause it's so unpredictable.

but if we're a 9 or 10 win team year in, year out, chances are we're accomplishing #1 fairly regularly....we're beating 1 or 2 of the 3 big rivals pretty regularly, going to good bowl games, and at the end of the day....i guess yeah, i'd be good with that. if we do those things regularly, then there will be opportunities for 2, 3, 4....

I'd love to have about 5 or 6 years of telling the rest of the east to F off.

 

[82_VOL_83]

That's not remotely true.

Do tell. I don't seem to remember turning the ball over 7 times EVER.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Going 10-2 consistently is for losers like Georgia and LSU and Oklahoma.

Sure, we will take 10-2 right now, but if we settle for 10-2 consistently then we have missed the point and are undervaluing the history of our program.

Do tell. And what exactly is the history of our program again?

 

[82_VOL_83]

Ima keep watching the VOLS I have been watching and the boneheads in this thread can watch the ****ty ones. I see a group playing their asses off. I don't know what the rest of you see. The last 2.5 games have been an incredible ride.

 

[tvolsfan]

Do tell. I don't seem to remember turning the ball over 7 times EVER.

You said the fumbles were uncharacteristic. We were leading the country in fumbles BEFORE the game. We average one more fumble per game than the team that is second to last in fumbles. Saying the fumbles were uncharacteristic is about as far from the truth as possible.

 

[butchna]

Okay, I hold him accountable. Now what?

Now football! :rock:

 

[Vols_Domination32]

I'll put some of the first half woe's on coaching but the coaches didn't make hurd fumble the ball going into the end zone or the other 7 turn overs we had on saturday vs A&M. We should have been tied or right in the hunt both of these games without those silly mistakes on the players.

 

[82_VOL_83]

You said the fumbles were uncharacteristic. We were leading the country in fumbles BEFORE the game. We average one more fumble per game than the team that is second to last in fumbles. Saying the fumbles were uncharacteristic is about as far from the truth as possible.

The graphic I saw said we had fumbled 15 times in the first three games and lost 3. We lost 5 Saturday night. I say that's uncharacteristic. You say what you want. I see a team on the verge of putting it together. Injuries and just plain being in uncharted territory is killing these guys.