The Devil you know...Chavis<Shannon

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Andrew Wiggin

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#1
I would certainly take Randy Shannon over Chavis straight up.

1. Although one was a head coach and the other has not been, there is less baggage with Shannon. The knives Fulmer has out would be stabbing overtime if the Chief was back on the hill.

2. Chavis still cannot stop the option.

3. I do not want to watch us get shredded on 3rd and long.

4. Chavis does not recruit well. When people say he is a great recruiter it makes me want to laugh in their face. It is strange some of the MASSIVE ignorance in our fan base.

5. If Chavis has superior talent, he usually wins (exceptions most glaring in 2001 but also see Nebraska 97, Nebraska again, K State). At LSU he has absurd talent that falls in his lap. That is not the case at TN. To ever get back to the very pinnacle, we will have to play slightly above our talent level. That is because we can get to top 15 talent, but the gulf between that level of talent and the type of top 5 talent that a Texas, a USC, a LSU, a Alabama and a Florida can bring in without working too hard is not something we can match no matter who is working here.

I have heard people already griping about Shannon, and some of them are Miami fans who did not love his tenure as HC, but give me a fresh start and a guy who loves recruiting and who can thrive as a defensive coordinator.

There are plenty of good reasons to take Shannon over Chavis, and it is painful to hear media folks and fans who do not understand this.

Shannon and Chavis had the same position at the same time period:
During Shannon's six years as UM's defensive coordinator, his defenses ranked as follows in total defense nationally:

2001 – 6th
2002 – 7th
2003 – 2nd
2004 – 28th
2005 – 4th
2006 – 7th

Now Chavis

2001 -Can someone point me to total rank? We had Henderson and an all pro NFL defense and could not stop Matt Mauck. UGA also ran the same play and Chavis failed to adjust.

2002 This year we played Miami and lost 26-3 in a game that was not as close as the score. We got drilled by Maryland in a bowl game. 2002 Tennessee Volunteers football team - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Georgia, Alabama and Florida beat us, but we did shut out UK and Vandy so maybe our stats looked good.

2003 We gave up 24 to Marshall, then 41 to UGA who destroyed us. My bowl trip to watch us lose to Clemson I also remember sucking. Miami ended the year ranked #5, coming off a National Championship in 2001 and a controversial NC loss in 2002. 2003 Tennessee Volunteers football team - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2004 Better year for Chief than Shannon. Miami entered the ACC with a thud, and while Tennessee gave up more points against Candy and UK, they won lots of games including Florida and Alababama and UGA...2004 Tennessee Volunteers Football rosters, game schedules, photos, articles, and videos | Fanbase

2005 The offense sucked this horrible year. Shannon had his team in the top 25 with 9 wins, and Chavis gave up 41 to Notre Dame. This is the game where I turned to my section and grumbled that we lost when Cutler had the ball with time left to pass. We had not lost yet, but I knew it would happen as I had watched lots of Chavis coached defenses who needed to stop the pass and could not. 2005 Tennessee Volunteers Football rosters, game schedules, photos, articles, and videos | Fanbase

2006 This is the season that Coker got canned. The only bad game for the Miami defense that season was against Petrino's Cardinals up in Louisville. The rest of the season the defense played well and the offense sucked. This year for Tennessee we gave up 30 and almost lost to Air Force (Chavis cannot stop the option) and we went to a bowl many of us were excited for and paid to watch us lose.



After going back and reliving all the painful memories of watching Cutler beat us, the UGA game where they kept running the same play in shock that we were not changing anything to cover it etc. I am more certain than ever that I want Shannon over Chavis and it is not close.

Randy Shannon Statistical Coach Profile « Coaches | By The Numbers.

John Chavis Statistical Coach Profile « Coaches | By The Numbers.
 
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#2
#2
And yes I am still bitter that Haynes ran the same play 3 times to come down and beat us in Knoxville. If an entire seating section is screaming to make the adjustment, you have to suck pretty hard as a coach to miss it.
 
#3
#3
Andrew Wiggin said:
4. Chavis does not recruit well. When people say he is a great recruiter it makes me want to laugh in their face. It is strange some of the MASSIVE ignorance in our fan base.
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This is why he's a perfect fit for LSU. He really doesn't have to recruit there to get top talent.
 
#4
#4
I'm sure Chavis thinks Tennessee < LSU at this point. Anyone know if the chief has plans this weekend?
 
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#9
#9
AJeray4TN said:
I'm sure Chavis thinks Tennessee < LSU at this point. Anyone know if the chief has plans this weekend?
Click to expand...

Bourbon Street to get away from Dooley's and Hart's phone calls. Then he has something going on Monday evening.
 
#10
#10
Exactly. LSU and ALA are a d coordinators dream. You dont have to really get out of your back yard to get top five classes year in and out. He'd be ignorant to leave for a school that fired him, and would do so again if he didn't produce immediate results. He wouldn't/shouldn't take that chance.

Good luck chief, except when u play us :rock:!
 
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#12
#12
Was Randy lazy as a recruiter every single year?

Did he task guys with watching film because he didnt want to?

Was his entire strategy to take a fast kid and add some weight to him while bumping him up a position?

Randy has a better overall record as a DC than Chavis. That is a fact.
 
#13
#13
Andrew Wiggin said:
Was Randy lazy as a recruiter every single year?

Did he task guys with watching film because he didnt want to?

Was his entire strategy to take a fast kid and add some weight to him while bumping him up a position?

Randy has a better overall record as a DC than Chavis. That is a fact.
Click to expand...

I think Chavis is considered the better DC of the two (at least outside of Tennessee). But Shannon had a great tenure at the dc position.

With that said I may be splitting hairs.
 
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#14
#14
Andrew Wiggin said:
Was Randy lazy as a recruiter every single year?

Did he task guys with watching film because he didnt want to?

Was his entire strategy to take a fast kid and add some weight to him while bumping him up a position?

Randy has a better overall record as a DC than Chavis. That is a fact.
Click to expand...

Man, you need to prove that with some evidence. Saying it is "a fact" is pure BS. Chief has a better record than Shannon and "that is a fact."
 
#15
#15
Saying The Chief is our Defensive Coordinator is all the recruiting help we need.
 
#16
#16
Andrew Wiggin said:
I would certainly take Randy Shannon over Chavis straight up.

1. Although one was a head coach and the other has not been, there is less baggage with Shannon. The knives Fulmer has out would be stabbing overtime if the Chief was back on the hill.

2. Chavis still cannot stop the option.

3. I do not want to watch us get shredded on 3rd and long.

4. Chavis does not recruit well. When people say he is a great recruiter it makes me want to laugh in their face. It is strange some of the MASSIVE ignorance in our fan base.

5. If Chavis has superior talent, he usually wins (exceptions most glaring in 2001 but also see Nebraska 97, Nebraska again, K State). At LSU he has absurd talent that falls in his lap. That is not the case at TN. To ever get back to the very pinnacle, we will have to play slightly above our talent level. That is because we can get to top 15 talent, but the gulf between that level of talent and the type of top 5 talent that a Texas, a USC, a LSU, a Alabama and a Florida can bring in without working too hard is not something we can match no matter who is working here.

I have heard people already griping about Shannon, and some of them are Miami fans who did not love his tenure as HC, but give me a fresh start and a guy who loves recruiting and who can thrive as a defensive coordinator.

There are plenty of good reasons to take Shannon over Chavis, and it is painful to hear media folks and fans who do not understand this.
Click to expand...
6. Chavis's defense gave up 59 points to Florida in 2007 and Florida showed mercy and stopped trying to score after the 3rd quarter.
 
#17
#17
AlaskaVol said:
Man, you need to prove that with some evidence. Saying it is "a fact" is pure BS. Chief has a better record than Shannon and "that is a fact."
Click to expand...

What do you mean a better record?

As a defensive coordinator John Chavis has a worse record than Shannon.

Learn some more football history, you can start with my now edited post.
 
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#18
#18
But Alaska Vol I do think you and I share a love of guns. So aside from the bickering in this thread, if you want to talk about your favorite guns I would enjoy reading.

I like to deer hunt with a .270 but I would have a 30-30 and a .308 if I was allowed to spend more on deer rifles.

I just used a gorgeous side by side for trap that I really enjoyed, but I just use a Remington semi auto 12 gauge for birds and sport.

I have an AR15 but it is too expensive to have fun with it most of the time.

I have a .40 for carry. Wish I could have an HK but it is just a Glock. I like the feel of the XD but if I am going to spend more than I have I will be getting an HK.

Cannot speak any more highly about my supermatic citation. It is cheap to shoot that 22 and fun as can be. You can get a quarter pistol grouping easy at 50 yards, and on a rest or prone it is possible at 100.
 
#19
#19
Did any of you remember how UT did when we had a 3 point or less lead with 2 minutes or less remaining? When Chief was the coach he would put in that prevent defense and the opponent would inevitably hit the underneath passes and march down the field and be in FG range. It was getting to the point that I wanted to be behind in that situation rather than ahead because we at least had a chance to score on a 2 minute drill. He can get away with it when he had great talent, but is a disaster when he doesn't.
 
#20
#20
Some people just don't get it. They are Fulmerites and love Chavis. Check out these stat lines....
2011

RANK TEAM GP PLAY YARDS AVG TD YPG
1.Alabama 12 676 2295 3.39 12 191.25
2.LSU 13 828 3277 3.96 14 252.08
Do some of you realize how many NFL prospects LSU has
on defense??? It is freaking unreal. Hell a pee wee coach
could handle this defense. John Chavis is a horrible recruiter and decent D coord. End of story.
Alabama has a talented D but does not compare to the LSU talent overall especially in the secondary. Why the 61 yard difference in yards. Coaching my friends. Florida and good top ten teams exposed Chavis on many occasions at UT.
 
#23
#23
Andrew Wiggin said:
I would certainly take Randy Shannon over Chavis straight up.

1. Although one was a head coach and the other has not been, there is less baggage with Shannon.
Click to expand...

So much so that Chavis quickly got a top job and has his team in the national title game while Shannon is still looking for employment.

Andrew Wiggin said:
2. Chavis still cannot stop the option.
Click to expand...

Wrong again. First, didn't know the option was the key in the SEC. Second, did you miss LSU's game against Oregon the best spread option team in the country? Or their performance against Auburn's spread option with Newton in 2010? Or their performance against Tebow's spread option in 2009? It was three of the best defensive performance against spread-option teams in that time span.

Andrew Wiggin said:
3. I do not want to watch us get shredded on 3rd and long.
Click to expand...

Shannon's Miami defenses from 2007-2010 (for when stats are available) were worse on 3rd and long than Chavis' defenses.

Andrew Wiggin said:
4. Chavis does not recruit well. When people say he is a great recruiter it makes me want to laugh in their face. It is strange some of the MASSIVE ignorance in our fan base.
Click to expand...

What is even stranger is someone comparing this to Randy Shannon which would cause any knowledgeable Miami fan to "laugh in the face" of anyone who thinks Shannon is a great recruiter. Miami lost more home-grown top-tier local talent than any program in the country during Shannon's stint at Miami.

Andrew Wiggin said:
2001 We had Henderson and an all pro NFL defense and could not stop Matt Mauck.
Click to expand...

Talk about ignorance. Matt Mauck (who would set records at LSU), was terrible that day, and his stats were as awful:

Passing: 5 for 15 for 67 yards
Rushing: 12 rushes for 43 yards for 3.6 yards per rush

Andrew Wiggin said:
5. To ever get back to the very pinnacle, we will have to play slightly above our talent level.
Click to expand...

Then you don't want Shannon. He typically had the most talented defense in the country (save USC during the latter part of his DC tenure), a schedule riddled with weak offenses (especially during the Big Least days of Miami), yet performed to par or below his talent level.

Shannon vs. Good Offenses
FSU '01: 27
VaTech '01: 24
Nebraska '01: 14
Florida '02: 16
FSU '02: 27
Pitt '02: 21
VaTech '02: 45
Ohio St. '02: 31
Florida '03: 33
Virginia Tech '03: 31
Louisville '04: 38
NC St. '04: 31
UNC '04: 31
Va Tech '04: 10
Florida '04: 10
VaTech '05: 7
LSU '05: 40
Louisville '06: 31
Georgia Tech '06: 30

More 30+ points given up than good games, and Miami had more NFL talent on that defense than Chavis ever had during the same time period.
 
#24
#24
docholiday said:
Do some of you realize how many NFL prospects LSU has
on defense??? It is freaking unreal. Hell a pee wee coach
could handle this defense. John Chavis is a horrible recruiter and decent D coord. End of story.
Alabama has a talented D but does not compare to the LSU talent overall especially in the secondary.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that's just not supported by many facts. From a recruiting perspective, Alabama's defense was higher ranked than LSU's defensive players, and the same size issues predominate throughout LSU's defensive roster in terms of their NFL prospects. (Chavis' defenses have always been exceptional at covering up the athletic deficiencies, especially lack of size, of his players). What's truly "unreal" is how whenever a Chavis defense performs very well, some fans clamor to suddenly claim great talent rather great coaching.
 
#25
#25
Andrew Wiggin said:
During Shannon's six years as UM's defensive coordinator, his defenses ranked as follows in total defense nationally:

2001 – 6th
2002 – 7th
2003 – 2nd
2004 – 28th
2005 – 4th
2006 – 7th
Click to expand...

thats a pretty good record...i wonder if tn played in the weak ass acc if their defense would have been ranked any higher than they already were? i guess we'll never know but we do know that chavis has been kicking ass in the sec for years and still is and as previously stated shannon got fired from miama and has been unemployed, hes so good he went from head coach to an assistant coach under derek dooley...talk about a depressing turn for his future job applications.
 
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