The DeSantis containment thread -- all things DeSantis go here

[Orangeburst]

But there are tax breaks for doing this. Until an analysis is done on the net cost/benefit it's impossible to say whether this is a good deal for Disney or for the state.

Seems if the deal benefits the state they should be offering it to other large corporations

You listening to Wilkow?

 

[VolStrom]

It is the right to self govern their property. If Disney wants to make DeSantis look like a dummy they should just relinquish the right and then the surrounding areas would have to pay for police, fire and rescue, and maintain the public roads. The real thing Disney gets is the right to decide how to protect the environment on its own land. Building on vs. maintaining wetlands. This saves them a fortune when they build out the property because every project doesn't require governmental approval sending every dirty government worker their way with their hands out.

I assume that Disney doesn't pay the same tax rate as the rest of the county does if they are providing their own services. Disney is walking a slippery slope when all they need to do is become a service provider and not a social activist.

 

[volinbham]

Is he actually trying to cancel the existing deal or just is it expiring and he is pushing to not renew it?

appears trying to cancel it along with other "special districts" in the state. the Disney one is the most notable

 

[volinbham]

You listening to Wilkow?

nope

 

[volinbham]

I assume that Disney doesn't pay the same tax rate as the rest of the county does if they are providing their own services. Disney is walking a slippery slope when all they need to do is become a service provider and not a social activist.

it's pretty complicated - saw where they contract for services from the two counties they straddle.

bottomline it would raise tax revenues from Disney but also raise costs - need to see some kind of breakdown to see the real economic impact.

To the extent Disney fights to maintain it you'd assume it's a better deal for them to have it than not.

 

[whodeycin85]

appears trying to cancel it along with other "special districts" in the state. the Disney one is the most notable

So they are not being single out, they are just the largest. Seems from what i just read the GOP had been wanting to do this for a while but haven't because of Disney...

 

[volinbham]

So they are not being single out, they are just the largest. Seems from what i just read the GOP had been wanting to do this for a while but haven't because of Disney...

I'd say they are being singled out and the others are going along for the ride to make it look "legit". It's about punishing Disney.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

But there are tax breaks for doing this. Until an analysis is done on the net cost/benefit it's impossible to say whether this is a good deal for Disney or for the state.

Seems if the deal benefits the state they should be offering it to other large corporations

It was a promise made to induce Disney to come to the state.

 

[VolStrom]

it's pretty complicated - saw where they contract for services from the two counties they straddle.

bottomline it would raise tax revenues from Disney but also raise costs - need to see some kind of breakdown to see the real economic impact.

To the extent Disney fights to maintain it you'd assume it's a better deal for them to have it than not.

Disney can control their own expenses much better than any government organization can. They better wish they don't have to start paying for the local governments to supply their fire, police and EMS services because they will tax the crap out of them to start offering those services.

 

[volinbham]

It was a promise made to induce Disney to come to the state.

a promise in perpetuity?

shouldn't the state review the agreement on some schedule to ensure it is still in the best interest of the citizens or nah?

 

[volinbham]

Disney can control their own expenses much better than any government organization can. They better wish they don't have to start paying for the local governments to supply their fire, police and EMS services because they will tax the crap out of them to start offering those services.

If I understand correctly they do pay for those services on contract basis to the relevant municipalities. They may have some duplication but an article I read in the Miami Herald suggested they are contracting services from the governments

 

[ClearwaterVol]

a promise in perpetuity?

shouldn't the state review the agreement on some schedule to ensure it is still in the best interest of the citizens or nah?

If the state made a deal to bring Disney here and Disney is not abusing the deal then no. Disney has lived up to its end and then some.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

If I understand correctly they do pay for those services on contract basis to the relevant municipalities. They may have some duplication but an article I read in the Miami Herald suggested they are contracting services from the governments

and get rid of the self governing and Disney would save that money. The municipalities surrounding disney don't want that.

 

[VolStrom]

a promise in perpetuity?

shouldn't the state review the agreement on some schedule to ensure it is still in the best interest of the citizens or nah?

I first went to Disney World in 1972, so in 50 years do they really need this special plan? It's not like they are going to abandon Florida, but if their board is woke like Twitters, maybe they would.

 

[volinbham]

If the state made a deal to bring Disney here and Disney is not abusing the deal then no. Disney has lived up to its end and then some.

not abusing is pretty vague - not sure what the standard is

government/private business arrangements are reviewed and changed all the time. look no further than drilling/exploration leases on Federal lands; prior agreements are changed, cancelled, enhanced as situations change.

 

[volinbham]

and get rid of the self governing and Disney would save that money. The municipalities surrounding disney don't want that.

again until some objective analysis is done to determine the true cost/benefit you can't say if cancellation would be a net gain or loss for the citizenry

 

[VolStrom]

not abusing is pretty vague - not sure what the standard is

government/private business arrangements are reviewed and changed all the time. look no further than drilling/exploration leases on Federal lands; prior agreements are changed, cancelled, enhanced as situations change.

Wow, that was a smack in the face rebuttal!

 

[ClearwaterVol]

not abusing is pretty vague - not sure what the standard is

government/private business arrangements are reviewed and changed all the time. look no further than drilling/exploration leases on Federal lands; prior agreements are changed, cancelled, enhanced as situations change.

And let's go back to my original point. The only reason this is an issue is because Disney disagreed politically with DeSantis. It's BS.

 

[volinbham]

And let's go back to my original point. The only reason this is an issue is because Disney disagreed politically with DeSantis. It's BS.

if you look at my responses I too have said DeSantis is pursuing this for the wrong reasons

that issue is distinct from the larger questions of 1) is this arrangement a good deal or not for the people of Florida and 2) should we never change an arrangement between a government and private business if the private business isn't "abusing" the arrangement.

On #1 - we simply do not know
On #2 - I do not see any reason such arrangements shouldn't be subject to review to ensure it is still in the interests of the citizenry.

 

[hog88]

I don't agree with DeSantis' reasons for taking this action, it certainly appears to be punitive On the other hand I'm not sure an agreement of this kind made over 50 years ago is sacrosanct. To the extent Disney is getting some special tax breaks in perpetuity that others don't get should be examined.

But isn't Disney providing all of the services that a city would normally tax them for?

 

[volinbham]

But isn't Disney providing all of the services that a city would normally tax them for?

depends on what you mean by "providing". it appears they pay for municipal services from the municipalities they exist within. Are they paying more, less the same as the cost if they didn't have this deal? Who knows. Are they getting additional tax breaks (eg. property, etc)? who knows.

if this is a net boon for the citizens then Florida (and other states) should be expanding the use of these special districts. I haven't seen that trend but maybe it's happening

 

[RockyTop85]

Biden is proposing special taxes on billionaires. Heck the graduated tax brackets are special taxes on individuals. The AMT was supposed to be a special tax on a class of individuals so it has to be doable at least at the federal level, don't have a clue about the FL constitution or laws.

Ok, maybe I still wasn’t clear enough: singular businesses and individuals. You can tax classes, like billionaires and you can tax various uses of property, like lodging. You can tax transactions, like sales. But those apply to everyone.

Without looking into it, I’m pretty sure you can’t define a class to include one organization. That seems similar to a bill of attainder. And when the purpose of that tax is to punish the one organization for protected speech, that’s another set of issues.

 

[hog88]

depends on what you mean by "providing". it appears they pay for municipal services from the municipalities they exist within. Are they paying more, less the same as the cost if they didn't have this deal? Who knows. Are they getting additional tax breaks (eg. property, etc)? who knows.

if this is a net boon for the citizens then Florida (and other states) should be expanding the use of these special districts. I haven't seen that trend but maybe it's happening

I always thought Disney ran all of their own utilities, fire and road services. Didn't realize they contracted that out.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

if you look at my responses I too have said DeSantis is pursuing this for the wrong reasons

that issue is distinct from the larger questions of 1) is this arrangement a good deal or not for the people of Florida and 2) should we never change an arrangement between a government and private business if the private business isn't "abusing" the arrangement.

On #1 - we simply do not know
On #2 - I do not see any reason such arrangements shouldn't be subject to review to ensure it is still in the interests of the citizenry.

If the deal was if you come we grant you this status then no. The deal was made. Breach of Contract.

 

[RockyTop85]

Disney may have “created” modern Orlando; but there is now a complete ecosystem in place. Dollars not spent at Disney will just now cross the street to Universal, Seaworld, and Busch Gardens. Disney is not the only 500 pound gorilla in the area anymore

I’m aware, that’s the problem with your “just tax Disney” approach.