The "depth" argument

#77
#77
VFL-82-JP said:
Yep, that was the one. The only series with 3 runs and a punt.



Then, at the very end, it was about a nice drive down the field capped off by a missed FG from 55 yards out.

Not conservative at all. Watch it again, OP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aU1uuokXiQ
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How many plays did we get off on that "nice drive"? Watch it again. Terrible clock management for a college football game with time-outs left. Why rush three and spy a QB on 4th and 14 against Florida? Why not just play zone and rush four or even rush three. There was bad coaching on both sides of the ball in that game. Jake had the post of the thread.
 
#78
#78
chattavol420 said:
So in an effort to be objective and not simply post an opinion...I want to say here's why I don't buy the depth argument (which is butchs excuse for everything). All of our come from behind losses this seasons have been similar. Our team comes out ready to play and establish a lead. But Butch ultimately chooses to go into prevent mode wayyyyy too early. That means we only call safe run plays, as opposed to trying to call the best play based on what the defense is doing. The opposing defenses have loaded the box knowing they'll get a quick three and out and we've been content with allowing this to happen.
So what happens is that from the middle of the third quarter on, our defense is constantly out on the field. Eventually they get gassed for a couple of big plays. Also, the defensive calls are conservative. As opposed to bringing pressure on obvious passing downs we play a prevent type defense. It would seem as though the staff would understand that the defense has been on the field for a long time and that pressure on obviously passing downs would be the right call but it hasn't happened.
Afterward Butch will always say yall saw it...we don't have the defensive depth when we get late in the games.
But no team has enough defensive depth to leave them out there the entire second half.
Next season we won't have vareen, Owen Williams, Randolph, McNeil, and potential sutton and jrm. We are not going to have more depth next year on defense. But next year (like this season) we will have enough talent to win all our games. The games just have to be managed properly
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Im just kicking the same can down the sidewalk that a notable number of other VNers have been; but here goes. How can such absurd subjectivity be labeled "objective" when this overwrought bone of contention has been the only bone you toss around? The only misunderstood depth issue is your own shallowness in not considering (as others have pointed out) that UT's talent drops off far more dramatically as the starters are spelled than with OU and UF and bama. It's actually that way with UGA, also, but Butch, et al, clearly out-coached Richt, et al. It was against those 4 aforementioned foes that the Vols' starters had far more reps than their starters by the 4th quarter. Arky's O-line had little trouble pushing around a gassed UT D-line due to this same problem. A better equalized situation against UK illustrated Butch's sound and aggressive play-calling. OP, you're fooling only the foolish by claiming objectivity.:loco:
 
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#79
#79
420 You need to celebrate 4:20 more often or something, remember it is 4:20 somewhere every hour. Remember this time last year we were all sweating if we would become bowl eligible, not this year. Things are getting better with the Big Orange. If you can not see that then why don't you change your support to Bama and then you can be happy. It seems like you are miserable every single day. They have a big bandwagon, maybe even one big enough for someone with your "objective" view points. You and Phyllis from Mulga are both about as objective in your view of things. Then you will not have to B!+ch, pi$$, and moan all the time. If you like to B, P and moan join dawgnation, they need more like you. Your crap never stops. I put LebVol on ignore and I think I have had just about enough of your crappy "objectivity" to let you join that illustrious group and become a party of 2. Come on enjoy the improvement in our team, I have watched the ebb and flow of football success at UT over 6 different decades and I see us on the rise and I for one am enjoying it and yes I wish we were undefeated but we are getting better and even though we have 4 losses even those we have been competitive in unlike some years where we were boat races out of the stadiums. Relax 420 if you can not then get off the board so you will not be so stressed by all the rest of us who are enjoying our modicum of success this year. GBO BEAT NORTH TEXa$$!!!!
 
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#82
#82
I regret posting earlier. Why peel the scab off when I am looking forward to three wins and trip with the family to possibly a decent bowl game? I do not want to re-debate the Oklahoma, Florida, Arkansas coaching debacles.
 
#83
#83
MWAVolfan said:
We no longer have a new head coach. After nearly 3 years onto the job, how much more on the job training should you need? I dispute the assumption that it was a given fact that a program rebuild takes years and years, especially at a historical powerhouse program.

Depth is not an excuse anymore. There are plenty of teams that have our level of depth that can win football games. We no longer have the youngest lines or whatever other excuse there is. Every team in the country goes though lack of depth because players graduate and get drafted and get hurt. It happens and is a fact of life but no coach has used it like a crutch more than ours.
\ith all that said he's doing a fine job and the expectation for next year is no less than 10 wins bare minimum.

I have a few problems with him as a coach, namely I believe he's not SEC material. But I have a way bigger problem with all the posters that line up to cherry pick reasons why it's ok to lose. At some point the team just has to win and win big. Shut up and win.


I also love how people repost the OPs original message with some quippy comeback in an effort to get "likes". Shameless pandering to the lowest common denominator. I guess you got to get your attention somehow, internet superheroes.
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Odd ending to your post. Do stay on topic. Yes, it would be great to be on the level of Alabama and even Florida after 3 years. Still not seeing that as realistic. Things are clearly better today than they were three years ago. That's called progress. But in today's 'NOW' generation, people don't understand the building of a foundation. Clearly, we should have won an SEC championship by now.
 
#84
#84
Although I'm tired of hearing about it as well, I believe depth is an issue. Just take a look at Notre Dame this year. I'm not sure how many starters or key contributors they've lost this year, but they're humming right along. It helps to be able to replace talent with an equally talented player,and not a walk on or marginally talented player. Maybe the staff becomes less conservative once we have more horses in the stable ?! Only time and a few more top five classes will tell.
 
#85
#85
chattavol420 said:
So in an effort to be objective and not simply post an opinion...I want to say here's why I don't buy the depth argument (which is butchs excuse for everything). All of our come from behind losses this seasons have been similar. Our team comes out ready to play and establish a lead. But Butch ultimately chooses to go into prevent mode wayyyyy too early. That means we only call safe run plays, as opposed to trying to call the best play based on what the defense is doing. The opposing defenses have loaded the box knowing they'll get a quick three and out and we've been content with allowing this to happen.
So what happens is that from the middle of the third quarter on, our defense is constantly out on the field. Eventually they get gassed for a couple of big plays. Also, the defensive calls are conservative. As opposed to bringing pressure on obvious passing downs we play a prevent type defense. It would seem as though the staff would understand that the defense has been on the field for a long time and that pressure on obviously passing downs would be the right call but it hasn't happened.
Afterward Butch will always say yall saw it...we don't have the defensive depth when we get late in the games.
But no team has enough defensive depth to leave them out there the entire second half.
Next season we won't have vareen, Owen Williams, Randolph, McNeil, and potential sutton and jrm. We are not going to have more depth next year on defense. But next year (like this season) we will have enough talent to win all our games. The games just have to be managed properly
Click to expand...



Same old tired, lame, crybaby crap...different day.

If you hate buTch so much then go cheer for the crimson tUrd.

You'll hate being a alaBubba fan soon too because Tennessee will start stacking up WINS against the crimson tUrd too.

No go get some cheese to go with the never ending whine you have.

#BrickbyBrick...VFL...GBO!!!
 
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#86
#86
chattavol420 said:
So in an effort to be objective and not simply post an opinion...I want to say here's why I don't buy the depth argument (which is butchs excuse for everything). All of our come from behind losses this seasons have been similar. Our team comes out ready to play and establish a lead. But Butch ultimately chooses to go into prevent mode wayyyyy too early. That means we only call safe run plays, as opposed to trying to call the best play based on what the defense is doing. The opposing defenses have loaded the box knowing they'll get a quick three and out and we've been content with allowing this to happen.
So what happens is that from the middle of the third quarter on, our defense is constantly out on the field. Eventually they get gassed for a couple of big plays. Also, the defensive calls are conservative. As opposed to bringing pressure on obvious passing downs we play a prevent type defense. It would seem as though the staff would understand that the defense has been on the field for a long time and that pressure on obviously passing downs would be the right call but it hasn't happened.
Afterward Butch will always say yall saw it...we don't have the defensive depth when we get late in the games.
But no team has enough defensive depth to leave them out there the entire second half.
Next season we won't have vareen, Owen Williams, Randolph, McNeil, and potential sutton and jrm. We are not going to have more depth next year on defense. But next year (like this season) we will have enough talent to win all our games. The games just have to be managed properly
Click to expand...

Go ahead and submit your resume for head coach along with all the others. It us obvious to me all of you are so much better than our current staff which is why you are posting here...just saying.
 
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#87
#87
terrypedigo said:
No Team in the SEC will win all there game's if you can go 10 and 2 and every now and then 11 and 1 be happy the days of running the table are over in this League with the East top 3 getting better the winner of the SEC will have 2 Losses in the future, this is by far the toughest League in the country in the 90s it was only Tennessee and the Gators the West often had a 3 loose team, so in the future if you only can get in the playoffs with a 1 loose team the Sec will be left out unless they take a 2 loose SEC TEAM over a 1 loose Power 5 conference team.
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There is no way that's actually all one sentence.
 
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#88
#88
thebjd said:
How many plays did we get off on that "nice drive"? Watch it again. Terrible clock management for a college football game with time-outs left. Why rush three and spy a QB on 4th and 14 against Florida? Why not just play zone and rush four or even rush three. There was bad coaching on both sides of the ball in that game. Jake had the post of the thread.
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If you're so good at calling the right plays in a football game (actually in hindsight and after the fact) then why aren't you making big money as a football coach?

I'm just asking.

I'm sure if they did what you proposed and we lost then you would be blaming them for bad coaching b/c they DID play zone and rush 3 or 4.
 
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#89
#89
thebjd said:
How many plays did we get off on that "nice drive"?
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Yeah, bad choice of words. Instead of "nice" I shoulda said "exciting." I agree that clock management was atrocious that series, on everyone's part: our coaches, our QB, and the Swamp clock operator too, who was allowed to get away with milking a lot of time away when it should've been stopped (so, on the ref).

There were 81 seconds available in that drive (1:21).

The ball was only in play for 31 seconds. That's about 38% live ball. Efficient two-minute drill should be up in the 75%-80% range.

The other 50 seconds were on the clock operator & refs (29 seconds, in 4 different bursts) and the QB & coaches (21 seconds wasted getting new plays started).

So you're right...not so nice. But exciting! :good!:
 
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#90
#90
chattavol420 said:
So in an effort to be objective and not simply post an opinion...I want to say here's why I don't buy the depth argument (which is butchs excuse for everything). All of our come from behind losses this seasons have been similar. Our team comes out ready to play and establish a lead. But Butch ultimately chooses to go into prevent mode wayyyyy too early. That means we only call safe run plays, as opposed to trying to call the best play based on what the defense is doing. The opposing defenses have loaded the box knowing they'll get a quick three and out and we've been content with allowing this to happen.
So what happens is that from the middle of the third quarter on, our defense is constantly out on the field. Eventually they get gassed for a couple of big plays. Also, the defensive calls are conservative. As opposed to bringing pressure on obvious passing downs we play a prevent type defense. It would seem as though the staff would understand that the defense has been on the field for a long time and that pressure on obviously passing downs would be the right call but it hasn't happened.
Afterward Butch will always say yall saw it...we don't have the defensive depth when we get late in the games.
But no team has enough defensive depth to leave them out there the entire second half.
Next season we won't have vareen, Owen Williams, Randolph, McNeil, and potential sutton and jrm. We are not going to have more depth next year on defense. But next year (like this season) we will have enough talent to win all our games. The games just have to be managed properly
Click to expand...

Try the 25 words or less post.

Obtw you post wayyyyyy too much, not to be a true fan.

Too much time on your hands.
 
#91
#91
chattavol420 said:
So in an effort to be objective and not simply post an opinion...I want to say here's why I don't buy the depth argument (which is butchs excuse for everything). All of our come from behind losses this seasons have been similar. Our team comes out ready to play and establish a lead. But Butch ultimately chooses to go into prevent mode wayyyyy too early. That means we only call safe run plays, as opposed to trying to call the best play based on what the defense is doing. The opposing defenses have loaded the box knowing they'll get a quick three and out and we've been content with allowing this to happen.
So what happens is that from the middle of the third quarter on, our defense is constantly out on the field. Eventually they get gassed for a couple of big plays. Also, the defensive calls are conservative. As opposed to bringing pressure on obvious passing downs we play a prevent type defense. It would seem as though the staff would understand that the defense has been on the field for a long time and that pressure on obviously passing downs would be the right call but it hasn't happened.
Afterward Butch will always say yall saw it...we don't have the defensive depth when we get late in the games.
But no team has enough defensive depth to leave them out there the entire second half.
Next season we won't have vareen, Owen Williams, Randolph, McNeil, and potential sutton and jrm. We are not going to have more depth next year on defense. But next year (like this season) we will have enough talent to win all our games. The games just have to be managed properly
Click to expand...


That's not what happened though in the Oklahoma or Florida game.

Oklahoma's last 3 possessions before their two 4rth quarter touchdown drives (which were 13 plays and 14 plays) were - 4 plays, 3 plays and 3 plays. Tennessee had the ball for 8 plays in the 4th quarter though. Depth was an issue but nothing to do with your suggestions.

Tennessee went on a long time consuming drive in the 4rth quarter to score against Florida. So nothing conservative there. It did not stop the D from giving up multiple 4th down conversions.



I can agree there were some beyond questionable coaching decisions sprinkled in along the way but your post does not even mention any of that. Your post only talks about stuff that has only happened when you watch the game through beer filled eyes.
 
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