the classic pocket passer.

#27
#27
i have another question about playing QB at this level of college football.

i know theese guys are really looked at in depth when being recruited but do you guys ever think that the fundimentals/mechanics are over looked at this level?
do you think its expected that the kid have perfect fundimentals and keep them the whole time they are playing ?

i mean look at the hitting coach in baseball in he major league, his job is not to teach the fundimentals of hitting, its to make sure the hitter keeps the same mechanics and dosent develope sloppy habbits.

i brought up in another post that when JC was in last year at the end of the memphis game and the arkansas game, he had perfect rythem and timeing and great looking footwork, this year to be nice about he just dosent and ill leave it at that.


im not a big fan of option routes myself,( i think this has messed with our qb's heads this year) i think that is gona mess with any qb's rythem we put in at this point against this level of competiton. the system last year used alot of 3 step timing routes.
 
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#28
#28
gainesvol82 said:
Actually, he is very elusive for all of the reasons you mentioned above.
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Only if you define elude the same way you define avoid. To elude, at least in my understanding, connotes speed and agility, an action which sees a quarterback dodging, shaking, or out-running defenders.

It is a matter of semantics, and doesn't really matter much to the discussion at hand. Manning is a very good one, but he is prototypical of a pocket passer, and not in a special elusive subset.
 
#32
#32
Manning is "elusive" within about a two- or three-yard radius. He's good at stepping up or aside and avoiding a hit long enough to make a play, but that's it. When you hear a QB described as "elusive," at the very least he ought to be a threat to take off and pick up the first down with his legs once in awhile. Manning isn't that.
 
#33
#33
the reason i say take that with a grain of salt is, rivals has tajh boyd listed as a 4.7, i bet hes faster than that.

i know this kid in queston is real quick for his size and tearing it up last couple years, but he was only an example of how quick the non skill posiston players have gotten over the last several years.
 
#34
#34
Vercingetorix said:
Manning is "elusive" within about a two- or three-yard radius. He's good at stepping up or aside and avoiding a hit long enough to make a play, but that's it. When you hear a QB described as "elusive," at the very least he ought to be a threat to take off and pick up the first down with his legs once in awhile. Manning isn't that.
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thats what i said in fewer works, its called being moble in the pockett.
 
#37
#37
orange_fan_inVa said:
well all i can say is i never witnessed the kid run that in the 40 but that is what we are told by his coaches, and we have played agaisnt him and seen what he can do, thats all i can tell you for certin, if anything were off id say he may be closer to 6'1 than 6'3 but i wouldnt know that for sure either, im just saying, some of you need to learn how to take statments in the right context , because i said i dont see why he hasent gotten any major intrest from the bigger schools, he possibley may have had some intrest from marshall and uva, but i dont know that for sure either, there could be accidemic issues, i dont know for sure. i take everything im told with a grain of salt.
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Holy cow dude. You come in here making all kinds of statements regarding the player, say you're not sure of any of those statements and then say we need to learn how to take statements in the right context? :crazy: Great work posting on a message board. What grade are you in?
 
#38
#38
cotton said:
Only if you define [I]elude[/I] the same way you define avoid[/I]. To elude, at least in my understanding, connotes speed and agility, an action which sees a quarterback dodging, shaking, or out-running defenders.

It is a matter of semantics, and doesn't really matter much to the discussion at hand. Manning is a very good one, but he is prototypical of a pocket passer, and not in a special elusive subset.
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That's correct. Elude is not speed. Speed can be used to elude, but elude only means to avoid.
 
#39
#39
If the running QB and Spread offense was so great don't you think the NFL teams would use it more. The running QB is too much of a liabilty of getting hurt, and cannot handle the complex NFL Defense.

The NFL still has the I, Split Backs, Straight T, Shotgun and Run N' Shoot. The Fullback, TE, Power HB, and Pocket QB will never die...that i can garuntee.

Think about it if you have a 300lb DL, 250lb LB, or a 220 Saftey hitting the QB on 70-85% of the offensive plays he's gonna get hurt no matter how good!!!
 
#40
#40
BJSforVols said:
That's correct. Elude is not speed. Speed can be used to elude, but elude only means to avoid.
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Again, I believe "elude" has a different connotation. I do not think Erik Ainge was elusive. I do not think Peyton Manning is elusive, even though he is quite good at avoiding being tackled.
 
#41
#41
cotton said:
Again, I believe "elude" has a different connotation. I do not think Erik Ainge was elusive. I do not think Peyton Manning is elusive, even though he is quite good at avoiding being tackled.
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Maybe you should write you own dictionary. Below is webster's definition.

: tending to elude: as a: tending to evade grasp or pursuit <elusive prey> b: hard to comprehend or define c: hard to isolate or identify
— elu·sive·ly adverb
— elu·sive·ness noun
 
#42
#42
titanthrower said:
If the running QB and Spread offense was so great don't you think the NFL teams would use it more. The running QB is too much of a liabilty of getting hurt, and cannot handle the complex NFL Defense.

The NFL still has the I, Split Backs, Straight T, Shotgun and Run N' Shoot. The Fullback, TE, Power HB, and Pocket QB will never die...that i can garuntee.

Think about it if you have a 300lb DL, 250lb LB, or a 220 Saftey hitting the QB on 70-85% of the offensive plays he's gonna get hurt no matter how good!!!
Click to expand...


NFL systems should not concern Vol fans. i could care less what works better in the NFL. i'm more concerned about what works in the SEC, and with all the defensive speed we see these days, I'd feel more comfortable with a duel threat than a pure breed under center.

We've basically had pure pocket passers starting the majority of the games since 1999 (notcounting Schaeffer and Banks for one game), and it's gotten us nowhere.
 
#43
#43
perico said:
NFL systems should not concern Vol fans. i could care less what works better in the NFL. i'm more concerned about what works in the SEC, and with all the defensive speed we see these days, I'd feel more comfortable with a duel threat than a pure breed under center.

We've basically had pure pocket passers starting the majority of the games since 1999 (notcounting Schaeffer and Banks for one game), and it's gotten us nowhere.
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The debate is not in regards to UT - it's in regards to the all of college football.
 
#44
#44
BJSforVols said:
Maybe you should write you own dictionary. Below is webster's definition.

: tending to elude: as a: tending to evade grasp or pursuit <ELUSIVE prey>b: hard to comprehend or define c: hard to isolate or identify
&#8212; elu·sive·ly adverb
&#8212; elu·sive·ness noun
Click to expand...

You are correct. Peyton is the next incarnation of Randall Cunningham. The word "elusive" has been changed to mean "Peytonesque" (Petyonesquely: adverb.) He avoids sacks by a combination of gymnastics and ballet rather than unloading the ball quickly, throwing it away, pre-planning before the snap, or standing in the pocket and letting a good offensive line keep the hounds at bay until his battery of targets finds an opening.

In no way could he be considered unable to avoid pursuit, comprehensible, or, especially, identifiable.

He is the essence of ninja.
 
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#45
#45
cotton said:
You are correct. Peyton is the next incarnation of Randal Cunningham. The word "elusive" has been changed to mean "Peytonesque" (Petyonesquely: adverb.) He avoids sacks by a combination of gymnastics and ballet rather than unloading the ball quickly, throwing it away, pre-planning before the snap, or standing in the pocket and letting a good offensive line keep the hounds at bay until his battery of targets finds an opening.

In no way could he be considered unable to avoid pursuit, comprehensible, or, especially, identifiable.

He is the essence of ninja.
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At least you understand the word now. It's fine for you to disagree with Troy Aikman's opinion. I tend to agree with it after he pointed it out. I would have never thought it prior to it being pointed out though.
 
#46
#46
I was about to write up a post about how irrelevant it is to haul out a generic dictionary definition to argue about a football-specific connotation of a word, but then I remembered that Troy Aikman is indeed the Supreme Arbiter of Correct English Usage. So never mind.
 
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#47
#47
Vercingetorix said:
I was about to write up a post about how irrelevant it is to haul out a generic dictionary definition to argue about a football-specific contotation of a word, but then I remembered that Troy Aikman is indeed the Supreme Arbiter of Correct English Usage. So never mind.
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I as well forgot that football has it's own language and does not go by standard English.:salute::banghead2::snoring:
 
#48
#48
BJSforVols said:
I as well forgot that football has it's own language and does not go by standard English.:salute::banghead2::snoring:
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I don't normally point this sort of thing out, but it's especially awesome that you made that kind of a rudimentary error while trying to be pedantic about the language. Go look up the difference between the connotation and denotation of a word, and then come back.
 
#49
#49
Vercingetorix said:
I don't normally point this sort of thing out, but it's especially awesome that you made that kind of a rudimentary error while trying to be pedantic about the language. Go look up the difference between the connotation and denotation of a word, and then come back.
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You're very correct. At least I can admit a mistake. You might want to try it one day. No way in the world would I try to convince you that "it is" is the correct usage for that sentence. I apologize for my typo mister grammer police.:good!::clapping:
 
#50
#50
I wouldn't normally bother with the grammar-police stuff, but since you started waving the dictionary around like it somehow proved you right, I couldn't resist. The Webster's dictionary is just about as authoritative on what the word "elusive" means in the context of football lingo as my dead grandmother would be.
 
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