The buyout for firing Butch.

#51
#51
Hey guys. First time posting on a major thread. Reading through all these posts made me realize how lucky we are to have a guy like Butch Jones as our Head Coach. I have lived long enough to see Tennessee at our best as well as our worst. At what point are we going to get past Fulmer and Hamilton? Yes, Hamilton brought in a coach whom I refuse to name that further destroyed our program. Then the idiot hired a great guy that happened to be a horrible coach. We've been through some very tough years. Butch isn't going anywhere. Let's talk more about Iowa and less about the negatives. We are going to a bowl game. I dunno about you guys, but I am thankful for that at this point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#52
#52
heres a idea lets get threw this bowl game first and get behind our coach instead of talking about how much money it's gonna cost to fire him! frankly we should care less what it's gonna cost to fire him cause we should be supporting him and really this talk of dooley is making me sick if you can't tell butch is starting to turn this program around you really need to get your eyes checked! he's basicly playing freshmam,couple of good players, and filling holes with people he didnt even recruit for his system,his team they were left over from dofus so here's a idea just enjoy this bowl game and get behind these coachs and kids and give them 150% support!! GO VOLS!! #VFL
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#54
#54
UrbanCryer said:
If thats the case. Why was he fired? Its was over.

When cdc left he was done. 3rd and chavis still doesnt work. Ask lsu fans
Click to expand...

He was fired over a personal vendetta held by Hamilton and loyalty to his friend who was going through a divorce.

Cutcliffe leaving did hurt, but I really do not think you want to start comparing Our defense over the past 6 to LSU's, I'll just put it this way, they play in a much more difficult division then we do, yet they are not forced to be happy over finally making it to a bowl.

I know it is hard to admit it was a boneheaded and ignorant move to make. But if you seriously think we are better off with what has happened to our team then there is no hope for you and Ill just bow out of this conversation. Football moves in cycles and even the best coaches can have a down year or two. It does not mean that they can't bounce back,

but we wouldn't give the man responsible for our obscene expectations the chance to even try. Our arrogance made us think he would be easy to replace.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#55
#55
WesternKyVol said:
Saw another thread addressing the buyout if Butch decides to leave. On the other side, what we have to pay Butch if we fire him is much steeper. Basically we keep the 2 million dollars/ per year left on the contract that the origianl contract specified. IMO, this is ridiculously irresponsible given that the next two years will tell the tale on Butch. Say he goes 5-7 next year or say he goes 7-5 and then backs that up with a 6-6 in 2016...it could happen.

Under the contract's terms, we would owe him 10 million after next year and 8 million the year after.

The jury is still very much out on Butch, so to owe him 10 million dollars for firing him next year, and 8 the year after that, is complete and utter garbage. By then Dave Hart will be in a retirement community in parts south and the University will be on the hook. This angers me as a fan and former student.
Click to expand...

Yes, because we should never show confidence a coach and should NEVER hire one with a buyout.
 
#58
#58
ImportedVoL said:
He was fired over a personal vendetta held by Hamilton and loyalty to his friend who was going through a divorce.

Cutcliffe leaving did hurt, but I really do not think you want to start comparing Our defense over the past 6 to LSU's, I'll just put it this way, they play in a much more difficult division then we do, yet they are not forced to be happy over finally making it to a bowl.

I know it is hard to admit it was a boneheaded and ignorant move to make. But if you seriously think we are better off with what has happened to our team then there is no hope for you and Ill just bow out of this conversation. Football moves in cycles and even the best coaches can have a down year or two. It does not mean that they can't bounce back,

but we wouldn't give the man responsible for our obscene expectations the chance to even try. Our arrogance made us think he would be easy to replace.
Click to expand...

It wasn't a case of "a down year or two." Coach Fulmer simply wasn't bringing in close the same level of talent anymore, which is why we weren't winning. Have a look at the number of NFL draft picks that came out of Tennessee between the time Coach Fulmer took over until four years after he left. We dropped off from having 8-10 players drafted every year (including multiple first round picks in some years) to having only 3-4 guys a year drafted. What happened in 2005 and 2008 was part of a clear long-term trend based on a lack of talent, not an aberration.
 
#60
#60
First of all, if you hire a coach while planning for his termination, you are probably not hiring the right guy. Of course all of them don't work out for one reason or another, but when you hire one, you want to think he will.

But, the reality of it is that terms of the contract are dictated by the competitive nature of the business. Universities compete for coaches in the same way corporations compete for executives or any other business competes for any other kind of talent.

There are always a few exceptions like the Saban and Meyer types that have the leverage to dictate the terms of employment. And on the other side, there are the newbies and the Bobby Petrino types that have less than average leverage and the Universities can strong-arm the terms.

But, for the 90 percent of the coaches in the middle, the nature of the terms is dictated by the environment they work in. I think if you looked at the contracts of most coaches, you'd see they are FAR more similar than different.

That's why you have to giggle a little when there are openings at traditional powerhouse schools and the fan base cries for a "big name." If you want a big name, you have to be prepared to make a LOT of concessions.

Likewise, if you want to be able to kick your coach to the curb at will, be prepared to hire a coach that is not in very high demand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#61
#61
roberthunter said:
Here is a Memorandum of Understanding from before he signed his original contract.

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/536014/butch-jones-memorandum-of-understanding-with.pdf

I'm still trying to find the actual contract he signed.

The MOU says we pay 2 mil per year remaining on the contract if we want to fire him, but what we pay is mitigated by any earnings he receives from another job.

Basically, if he gets another job earning 2 mil or more per year, we don't owe him anything.
Click to expand...

I see what you did! Trying to confuse with facts.:birgits_giggle::birgits_giggle:
 
#62
#62
ImportedVoL said:
It wasn't the buyout that set us back years.. it was the idiotic decision to fire him in the first place.

If CPF was still here we would be contending for the SECCG right now instead of being happy we finally are bowl eligible again.
Click to expand...

This is what drinking and posting gets you...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#63
#63
ImportedVoL said:
If CPF was still here we would be contending for the SECCG right now instead of being happy we finally are bowl eligible again.
Click to expand...

Hahahahahaha

He was suddenly going to figure out how to beat Richt, Spurrier, Florida, and any decent coach hired after 2001? Yeah, sure he was.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#64
#64
oregonvol said:
Hahahahahaha

He was suddenly going to figure out how to beat Richt, Spurrier, Florida, and any decent coach hired after 2001? Yeah, sure he was.
Click to expand...

Hate to break it to ya, but he has Fulmer's National Championship in support of his opinion while you have absolutely nothing but speculation in support of yours.
He wins.:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#65
#65
I'll second the contract terms and lean to the side of optimism as well. Besides , based on history, it sure can't get any worse unless we just quit football like UAB.
 
#66
#66
MedicT said:
Hate to break it to ya, but he has Fulmer's National Championship in support of his opinion while you have absolutely nothing but speculation in support of yours.
He wins.:)
Click to expand...

Larry Coker has a NC also

Game, set, match
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#67
#67
MedicT said:
Hate to break it to ya, but he has Fulmer's National Championship in support of his opinion while you have absolutely nothing but speculation in support of yours.
He wins.:)
Click to expand...

Your argument makes alot of sense if we can all simply agree that every coach who wins a national championship will continue to succeed forever.

If that's the case in the make believe world you live in, then I guess you were pissed we hired Butch when we could have gone after the likes of Lou Holtz and Gene Stallings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#68
#68
It's hard to understand this but the AD's job is not just strictly about a coach that generates wins. That sounds insane and granted eventually the wins must happen BUT they're not the most important thing to the AD.

Right after Dooley leaving UT football was down to I think around 63 million in annual revenue that was down 25% from the usual. Ticket sales, donor revenue were down. Our reserve was pretty much non existent. Facilities that were being constructed had to be stopped because our expenses had far exceeded our revenue. That was the situation Hart inherited and an academic side that was used to having a lot of revenue contributed to it from the athletics dept; I think we were actually at one time the biggest contributor percentage wise when compared to the other SEC schools.

Since Jones arrived at UT, donor contributions are up, ticket sales are up, facilities are being improved, the AD's reserve is actually getting built back up. I lay this out to make you understand that UT had a hell of a lot to lose if they let Butch potentially walk. Sure they may have hired another coach that would be as good or better than Jones for the brand BUT we almost couldn't afford to take that gamble. I think current revenue is north of 100 million.
 
#69
#69
tm3 said:
Larry Coker has a NC also

Game, set, match
Click to expand...

Well, as per usual, you only tell the most convenient part of the story, nothing new there of course. What you neglected to mention was Coker took over a Miami team that finished #2 the previous year. From that point forward, Coker's teams were in steady decline.
 
#70
#70
DaddyChad said:
It's hard to understand this but the AD's job is not just strictly about a coach that generates wins. That sounds insane and granted eventually the wins must happen BUT they're not the most important thing to the AD.

Right after Dooley leaving UT football was down to I think around 63 million in annual revenue that was down 25% from the usual. Ticket sales, donor revenue were down. Our reserve was pretty much non existent. Facilities that were being constructed had to be stopped because our expenses had far exceeded our revenue. That was the situation Hart inherited and an academic side that was used to having a lot of revenue contributed to it from the athletics dept; I think we were actually at one time the biggest contributor percentage wise when compared to the other SEC schools.

Since Jones arrived at UT, donor contributions are up, ticket sales are up, facilities are being improved, the AD's reserve is actually getting built back up. I lay this out to make you understand that UT had a hell of a lot to lose if they let Butch potentially walk. Sure they may have hired another coach that would be as good or better than Jones for the brand BUT we almost couldn't afford to take that gamble. I think current revenue is north of 100 million.
Click to expand...

Winning 6 games a year will not benefit the brand.
 
#72
#72
oregonvol said:
Your argument makes alot of sense if we can all simply agree that every coach who wins a national championship will continue to succeed forever.

If that's the case in the make believe world you live in, then I guess you were pissed we hired Butch when we could have gone after the likes of Lou Holtz and Gene Stallings.
Click to expand...

Oh, so now you support Jones, let me guess, since UT is in a bowl and your season long tirade against him was proven fruitless?
 
#73
#73
WesternKyVol said:
Saw another thread addressing the buyout if Butch decides to leave. On the other side, what we have to pay Butch if we fire him is much steeper. Basically we keep the 2 million dollars/ per year left on the contract that the origianl contract specified. IMO, this is ridiculously irresponsible given that the next two years will tell the tale on Butch. Say he goes 5-7 next year or say he goes 7-5 and then backs that up with a 6-6 in 2016...it could happen.

Under the contract's terms, we would owe him 10 million after next year and 8 million the year after.

The jury is still very much out on Butch, so to owe him 10 million dollars for firing him next year, and 8 the year after that, is complete and utter garbage. By then Dave Hart will be in a retirement community in parts south and the University will be on the hook. This angers me as a fan and former student.
Click to expand...

we are stuck with jones for a long time. hart wagered his job on jones. hope jones can become the coach that all vol fans want. 50 50 and pickem
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top