The Bruce Pearl Thread

Would you be for Bruce Pearl's return if Martin is fired after next year?

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#1,502
#1,502
Vol8188 said:
So lying one time makes someone completely immoral? I guess you know Pearl personally?
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Yeah, the morality comments pi$$ me off as well. I am not usually a Pearlophile on here, but for a coach to lie to protect everything he has worked for to that point in his career and then be called immoral is just stupid. IMO He lied... Now it may be really naive to think he only lied to protect the university. But after seeing the love he has for UT after his suspension, makes me believe the thought of having to lie to protect the university was there also.

Not smart we can all agree. But if your going to labal somebody immoral for a lie, then I hearby name you 'Pot'. Stop calling the kettle black!!!
 
#1,504
#1,504
GoobieVol said:
I am not usually a Pearlophile on here, but for a coach to lie to protect everything he has worked for to that point in his career and then be called immoral is just stupid. IMO He lied... Now it may be really naive to think he only lied to protect the university. But after seeing the love he has for UT after his suspension, makes me believe the thought of having to lie to protect the university was there also.
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Protect those things from what? A secondary violation?
 
#1,506
#1,506
UTCVol said:
He lied many more times than once. And while I don't give a damn about his personal life there is the whole cheating on his wife thing.
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Well you nailed it there. We shouldn't care about the results on the court as long as he doesn't cheat on his wife.
It makes me wonder at times about why we hire coaches. Do we need a coach or do we need a saint? The one we hired to replace Pearl if we called him a coach would be slander. But he doesn't have bar-b-ques so he must be a saint.
 
#1,507
#1,507
knowthevols said:
Well you nailed it there. We shouldn't care about the results on the court as long as he doesn't cheat on his wife.
It makes me wonder at times about why we hire coaches. Do we need a coach or do we need a saint? The one we hired to replace Pearl if we called him a coach would be slander. But he doesn't have bar-b-ques so he must be a saint.
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I would like a coach who bends the rules but isn't stupid enough to get caught.
 
#1,508
#1,508
ThunderVol11 said:
It's nothing personal against you, but one thing I've learned from message boards is: if someone is hellbent on a side or opinion (i.e. avatars, usernames, etc. reference their opinion), try not to argue with them. It just gets extremely frustrating and neither person's opinion will change as a result of the conversation.



First, it's not that simple. Yes, Pearl seems to be the superior coach (at this point), but there are other things must be considered. The NCAA sanctions, effect on the program, impact on recruiting, whether he will re-offend and what those penalties might include. All those things have to be considered. Thus, when you consider those factors, the difference between Pearl's coaching ability to CCM is significantly reduced, and IMO completely eliminated. Any benefits are greatly outweighed.

To the actual substance of your assertions, I disagree that CCM can never get us there. We don't know at this point. CCM was given a tough job. The cubbard was greatly bare when he took over. The short turnaround after he was hired and uncertainty regarding NCAA sanctions made it tough to recruit that first year. While CCM has failed to make the tournament both seasons, I don't know how much better Pearl would've faired. I don't think Pearl would've made the tourney with the team CCM was given his first year. I do think Pearl probably would've had the most recent team in the tournament--only because his experience as a coach would've better enabled him to cope with the Maymon loss. CCM finally adjusted to the loss, but his experience didn't allow him to do it as quickly.



I don't think, at all, that the university is getting desperate. Basketball attendance rose the previous year. So, that won't really factor into the decision. Dave Hart is a former basketball player, and I think he understands the situation and will be a lot more patient than most fans, which is good. He knows and understands the hand that CCM was dealt. Now, that is not an excuse to revel in mediocrity, but at this point, it's just not fair to judge CCM's legacy. I truly think this season will be the one to judge. After he has a roster full of SEC level talent to compete against any team in the league.



And yes, Pearl seems true VFL, but he did lots of things to hurt this program. So his love for the university can't be used to gloss over those things. A guy can seem in love when you see him with his wife and family, but that doesn't let him off the hook if he cheats on his wife.
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Question - What NCAA sanctions were brought against UT as a result of Pearl's untruthfulness with the NCAA?

Question - Who in there honest mind thought that Tennessee would make the AA tourney in Pearl's first year as head coach of the Vols?

If you are being honest, you would have to admit that you never thought that it was even a remote possibility with CBP's first team. NIT was a slight consideration.

Link:

Conference preview: SEC - NCAA Division I Mens Basketball - CBSSports.com News, Scores, Stats, Schedule and RPI Rankings
 
#1,509
#1,509
patrick said:
Question - What NCAA sanctions were brought against UT as a result of Pearl's untruthfulness with the NCAA?
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Surely you realize we received a much less severe penalty because of UT's proactive approach that resulted in terminating the employment of Pearl and his staff?

If we kept him, we would have stood to be leveled by the NCAA (unless we received the Miami treatment).
 
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#1,510
#1,510
cncchris33 said:
Surely you realize we received a much less severe penalty because of UT's proactive approach that resulted in terminating the employment of Pearl and his staff?

If we kept him, we would have stood to be leveled by the NCAA (unless we received the Miami treatment).
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I'm not trying to be a di@* but isnt that speculation? Was their a statement by the NCAA to that affect?
 
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#1,512
#1,512
VKAman said:
Not if you have common sense. You do realize they gave him a show cause, right? But you think that if we kept him they would just let it slide?
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Nonot at all. I just kinda think the punishment would have still be focused on BP rather than leveling the program. JMO

But a contrary opinion probably indicates no common sense... :p
 
#1,513
#1,513
GoobieVol said:
I'm not trying to be a di@* but isnt that speculation? Was their a statement by the NCAA to that affect?
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Well of course it's speculation. Like everything that never materialized for one reason or another, all we can do is speculate. As VKA said, it's really based on common sense in this case. He was issued a show cause order. Tennessee keeping him in spite of that would a giant "F-you" to the NCAA. Their response would be to virtually rape our program. Otherwise, it would send the message that cheating and lying is ok because there is no punishment. They can't force a school to fire a coach.
 
#1,514
#1,514
GoobieVol said:
Nonot at all. I just kinda think the punishment would have still be focused on BP rather than leveling the program. JMO

But a contrary opinion probably indicates no common sense... :p
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How do you punish Bruce Pearl as head coach at Tennessee without punishing the program? They already did recruiting restrictions; this would be a lot bigger than that.

Let me rephrase what I said in my last post: the NCAA determined that Pearl deserved not only to be fired, which is a punishment in itself, but also effectively banned from the sport for three years. Assuming they communicated that to us, and Tennessee chose to ignore that and keep him anyway, the NCAA is definitely coming after Tennessee and not just Pearl.
 
#1,515
#1,515
cncchris33 said:
Well of course it's speculation. Like everything that never materialized for one reason or another, all we can do is speculate. As VKA said, it's really based on common sense in this case. He was issued a show cause order. Tennessee keeping him in spite of that would a giant "F-you" to the NCAA. Their response would be to virtually rape our program. Otherwise, it would send the message that cheating and lying is ok because there is no punishment. They can't force a school to fire a coach.
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Unlike others, I am willing to cencede to a good point. The NCAA is like the boss with short man syndrome. :hi:
 
#1,516
#1,516
VKAman said:
How do you punish Bruce Pearl as head coach at Tennessee without punishing the program? They already did recruiting restrictions; this would be a lot bigger than that.

Let me rephrase what I said in my last post: the NCAA determined that Pearl deserved not only to be fired, which is a punishment in itself, but also effectively banned from the sport for three years. Assuming they communicated that to us, and Tennessee chose to ignore that and keep him anyway, the NCAA is definitely coming after Tennessee and not just Pearl.
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:hi: Sure your right. Am I wrong in thinking his punishment didnt fit the crime though?

I know its a totally different convo, but I'm 0-1 today already.
 
#1,517
#1,517
GoobieVol said:
Unlike others, I am willing to cencede to a good point. The NCAA is like the boss with short man syndrome. :hi:
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They really are. But we have to live with it at least for now, and in this case, I don't blame them.

Sorry for implying that you don't have common sense. The "show me public statements or it's not true" line of thinking just bothers me at times.
 
#1,518
#1,518
GoobieVol said:
:hi: Sure your right. Am I wrong in thinking his punishment didnt fit the crime though?

I know its a totally different convo, but I'm 0-1 today already.
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The BBQ in itself obviously wasn't a big deal, so lying about a BBQ is going to seem trivial. I think it's more the fact that he had the audacity to lie to them and then keep telling more lies in the process of "confessing" (i.e. "I told the Crafts it was illegal and they had to leave" or "I just called John Craft to, you know, talk about things.") that gave them the impression that he had no respect for authority, and authority figures usually don't like to see that.
 
#1,519
#1,519
VKAman said:
The BBQ in itself obviously wasn't a big deal, so lying about a BBQ is going to seem trivial. I think it's more the fact that he had the audacity to lie to them and then keep telling more lies in the process of "confessing" (i.e. "I told the Crafts it was illegal and they had to leave" or "I just called John Craft to, you know, talk about things.") that gave them the impression that he had no respect for authority, and authority figures usually don't like to see that.
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The whole thing just seems like a snowball that kept growing. Had the snowball/lies hit something/HE TOLD THE TRUTH, we maybe would have been able to retain him without the possibility of the laying of the wood.
 
#1,520
#1,520
VKAman said:
They really are. But we have to live with it at least for now, and in this case, I don't blame them.

Sorry for implying that you don't have common sense. The "show me public statements or it's not true" line of thinking just bothers me at times.
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Oh, and agree about the link or not true crap. But I didnt say either of those though... I was really wondering if the NCAA had flat out said that if he remains at UT that they would be forced to hammer us.
 
#1,521
#1,521
GoobieVol said:
Unlike others, I am willing to cencede to a good point. The NCAA is like the boss with short man syndrome. :hi:
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No problem with looking at another angle and raising questions. Kudos to you for being open-minded.

I don't think VKA meant anything negative with his "common sense" comment. I understood it to mean it was really the only option, not that you lacked any intelligence by raising questions.
 
#1,522
#1,522
cncchris33 said:
No problem with looking at another angle and raising questions. Kudos to you for being open-minded.

I don't think VKA meant anything negative with his "common sense" comment. I understood it to mean it was really the only option, not that you lacked any intelligence by raising questions.
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I hear ya. I got pretty thick skin, I'm a UT fan. :)
 
#1,523
#1,523
patrick said:
Question - What NCAA sanctions were brought against UT as a result of Pearl's untruthfulness with the NCAA?

Question - Who in there honest mind thought that Tennessee would make the AA tourney in Pearl's first year as head coach of the Vols?

If you are being honest, you would have to admit that you never thought that it was even a remote possibility with CBP's first team. NIT was a slight consideration.

Link:

Conference preview: SEC - NCAA Division I Mens Basketball - CBSSports.com News, Scores, Stats, Schedule and RPI Rankings
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Seems everyone pretty much answered your first question.

To the second one, wow--great find. That makes it a little more likely that Pearl could've gotten CCM's first time into the NCAA tourney. I still say though that he would've failed to do so (only slightly now, though) for two reasons. First, the level of talent on that team, with Watson and Lofton, was still superior to the level of talent of CCM's year one team. Also, the 2005 team had higher ceiling (predicted 8th of 12, instead of next to last). You definitely had me thinking about it though. haha
 
#1,524
#1,524
I love Bruce Pearl. Did he do wrong? Absolutely. Did the punishment fit the crime? IMO no. Would I like to see him back? Without a doubt. Is there a significant chance that Pearl returns? No.

As to Cuonzo, IMO he is a good man that is giving his all to get UT back up to Pearl level. I'm not going to argue about who is the better choice because any stat you look at shows that Pearl was the far and way the better coach. Will Cuonzo get there? Who knows. I do know my confidence that he will dwindles as time passes. Cuonzo is here for at least two more years so I don't think anyone could argue that he wasn't given enough time if he's let go in a couple of years. What many don't get is that these decisions on firing always come down to money. Cuonzo still has a decent crowds show up to see them play at TBA. Question is will they still show up after next year when a majority of the team is gone?
 
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