The Atlanta Braves

#238,852
#238,852
AV_12 said:
lol they’re wild man. Not sure we want to play that game vs the duds when they have spent money and developed talent at a much higher level. Especially hitters
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What offensive players is that exactly? Will Smith, maybe Andy Pages? James Outman for 1 season before the league figured him out?
 
#238,853
#238,853
Carp said:
That isn't what was said.
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Then what is said? Sure, minor league rankings aren't perfect. We all know this. Our concern is that AA has produced 4 decent players in 7 draft classes and IFA periods (I understand the IFA thing isn't his fault).

Also, we had pretty high farm system rankings in 2018-2021, so I'm not sure what bringing those years mean.
 
#238,855
#238,855
zjcvols said:
Trying to give AA credit for Mike Soroka when at 19 in Double A for 2017 he was producing a 2.75 ERA is wild lol
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This isn't about AA. The comment was made that our farm system is trash. I'm simply pointing out we consistently pump out quality MLB players despite poor farm rankings. You can move it to 2021 if you want more recent success.
 
#238,858
#238,858
Carp said:
This isn't about AA. The comment was made that our farm system is trash. I'm simply pointing out we consistently pump out quality MLB players despite poor farm rankings. You can move it to 2021 if you want more recent success.
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Okay I’ll bite:

Strider- Industry completely missed

Harris- Was moving into the top 50 overall in 2022 before he skipped AAA completely and got called up. He didn’t get play minor league ball in 2020 due to COVID. 3rd rounder that only had 828 PA’s in the minors. Nobody projected him to get called up in 2022, good chance he would have been a top prospect if the Braves didn’t call him up a year earlier than projected.

Schwellenbach- 2nd rounder in 2021 that didn’t get to pitch till 2023. Only pitched 110 innings before getting called up, started having some buzz before he got called up. Was a very surprising call up who also skipped AAA completely.

Baldwin- Was a consensus top 50 prospect, FG had him top 10 before the year.

So even with those guys being undervalued, which other than Strider made sense, it’s not like we’ve produced enough in-house talent the last 5-6 years to show any sort of sample of the industry constantly undervaluing Braves.
 
#238,860
#238,860
AV_12 said:
They actually develop then trade their top guys instead of letting them lose value
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How many of those players have gone on to have success with the teams that traded for them? Maybe they were just overrated in the first place.

We traded away Langeliers, Muller, Grissom, and Cusick at roughly peak value as prospects. Waldrep is just about the only top prospect who lost significant value and didn't provide any value to the ML team. If you want to go further back, you can add Pache to that.
 
#238,861
#238,861
Trying to defend the farm system when Nick Allen, Alex Verdugo, Eli White, Alex Verdugo, Jarred Kelenic, Bryan De La Cruz, Stuart Fairchild and Luke Williams have over 900 PA's in 95 games plus giving Bryce Elder 80 innings certainly is a choice
 
#238,863
#238,863
zjcvols said:
Okay I’ll bite:

Strider- Industry completely missed

Harris- Was moving into the top 50 overall in 2022 before he skipped AAA completely and got called up. He didn’t get play minor league ball in 2020 due to COVID. 3rd rounder that only had 828 PA’s in the minors. Nobody projected him to get called up in 2022, good chance he would have been a top prospect if the Braves didn’t call him up a year earlier than projected.

Schwellenbach- 2nd rounder in 2021 that didn’t get to pitch till 2023. Only pitched 110 innings before getting called up, started having some buzz before he got called up. Was a very surprising call up who also skipped AAA completely.

Baldwin- Was a consensus top 50 prospect, FG had him top 10 before the year.

So even with those guys being undervalued, which other than Strider made sense, it’s not like we’ve produced enough in-house talent the last 5-6 years to show any sort of sample of the industry constantly undervaluing Braves.
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Quite clearly the point is the industry didn't rate the guys as high as they should have been, sans Baldwin and maybe Harris. If Harris and Strider both are in the minors for all of 2022, both guys would likely have been top 10 overall prospects. Schwelly would likely have been a top 10 overall prospect if he didn't get called to Atlanta last year.

You don't think that affects a system ranking?

Frankly I care more about the talent we are producing and not where they get ranked on some arbitrary list. If we're consistently getting guys here and having them contribute before the prospect analysts have time to catch up, that's a good thing isn't it?
 
#238,864
#238,864
zjcvols said:
Trying to defend the farm system when Nick Allen, Alex Verdugo, Eli White, Alex Verdugo, Jarred Kelenic, Bryan De La Cruz, Stuart Fairchild and Luke Williams have over 900 PA's in 95 games plus giving Bryce Elder 80 innings certainly is a choice
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It has MORE to do with not spending the money. Allocating so much money to relief pitching and not extending players like Dansby when it’s warranted is the issue. There are a long list of wtf’s and drafting isn’t near the top.
 
#238,867
#238,867
zjcvols said:
Trying to defend the farm system when Nick Allen, Alex Verdugo, Eli White, Alex Verdugo, Jarred Kelenic, Bryan De La Cruz, Stuart Fairchild and Luke Williams have over 900 PA's in 95 games plus giving Bryce Elder 80 innings certainly is a choice
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We signed Profar for LF. He got suspended. It is what it is. I will gladly blame AA for drinking the Kool-aid there when it was clear whatever money we had needed to go to RP and/or SP. I think many of us said we would rather have kept Laurenano and we were justified in that decision.


JK was also a big mistake.

If I had it my way, Drake would have been in LF at least 2 months ago and Murph would be behind the plate almost every day.
 
#238,868
#238,868
Carp said:
How many of those players have gone on to have success with the teams that traded for them? Maybe they were just overrated in the first place.

We traded away Langeliers, Muller, Grissom, and Cusick at roughly peak value as prospects. Waldrep is just about the only top prospect who lost significant value and didn't provide any value to the ML team. If you want to go further back, you can add Pache to that.
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The point is who gives a **** if they succeed???? If you develop them and create value that’s how you build your organization. Then knowing who to keep and who to trade
 
#238,869
#238,869
Carp said:
We signed Profar for LF. He got suspended. It is what it is. I will gladly blame AA for drinking the Kool-aid there when it was clear whatever money we had needed to go to RP and/or SP. I think many of us said we would rather have kept Laurenano and we were justified in that decision.


JK was also a big mistake.

If I had it my way, Drake would have been in LF at least 2 months ago and Murph would be behind the plate almost every day.
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Putting a C in the outfield?? lol aight man
 
#238,870
#238,870
AV_12 said:
The point is who gives a **** if they succeed???? If you develop them and create value that’s how you build your organization. Then knowing who to keep and who to trade
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And my point is that we're still producing talent, despite what is considered a "weak farm." If we weren't graduating guys much earlier than most teams, our ranking form year to year would also look much better.


Would I like a better rated farm? Sure. But when we are producing quality MLB talent at the pace we have, it's hard for me to go all chicken little.
 
#238,873
#238,873
Carp said:
And my point is that we're still producing talent, despite what is considered a "weak farm." If we weren't graduating guys much earlier than most teams, our ranking form year to year would also look much better.


Would I like a better rated farm? Sure. But when we are producing quality MLB talent at the pace we have, it's hard for me to go all chicken little.
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Okay, here's the problem. We are not producing them at a good rate. You keep saying "We are producing quality MLB talent at a good pace", but a huge crux of your argument is based on 2018-2021, where the players producing were not picked by the current GM and we had an elite farm system. Guys like Riley, Soroka, Wright were not selected by AA's team. The GM currently in charge has produced 4 decent MLB players in 7.5 seasons at the helm through scouting. He's produced zero infielders, zero bullpen arms and he's so smart that the catcher he drafted that is producing is blocked because he traded for a catcher and gave him $75M after drafting Baldwin.
 
#238,875
#238,875
AA's 1st round Picks

2018: Carter Stewart- Never pitched in the US

2019: Shea Langeliers- 3.4 WAR in 1444 PA's

2019: Braden Shewmake- -0.9 WAR in 71 PA's

2020: Ryan Cusick- Never made majors

2021: Jared Shuster- 0.4 WAR in 141 innings

2022: Owen Murphy- TJ, hasn't made it past A ball

2022: JR Ritche- TJ, but seems like he's got a chance, just got to AAA

2023: Hurston Waldrep- 5 ERA in 80 innings in AAA right now

That's about as bad as a first-round resume as you can have from a scouting perspective. If Langeliers/Cusick didn't fetch Olson, it would be a disaster.
 
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