The argument for giving a coach more time

#1
rocky top buzz

rocky top buzz

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#1
There is another thread talking about how Clemson got where they are by hanging on to Dabo when he didn't start so great. It got me thinking, is the key to winning just keeping the coach? Seems to have worked at Clemson, and even uk with stoops is on a roll. But then that makes me think, was UT premature in firing Dooley/Butch? I don't think so. I think we have to judge a coach beyond wins and losses, here are a few things I see:

- Has to be able to consistently recruit top 10 classes, with at least 1-2 five stars each cycle. Also has to limit attrition of those classes over 4 years.

- Has to show ability to develop talent. Outside of Barnett and Dobbs we didn't see that from Butch.

- Injuries. These are more than accidental. I think with Butch the constant injuries were a sign of development failures.

- Surrounded with quality coordinators. I think this is what has made smart look brilliant early on, Chaney is a very good oc.

- Able to manage a program. This is one flaw I am worried about with cjp and hope he gets it together quick.

I see no reason a coach cannot win in the long run if they succeed in these areas. If Pruitt gets through this year and we see improvement in play regardless of wins, and we see solid recruiting, no reason Tenneesse can't get back to the top.
 
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#2
#2
To win, you must have a strong coaching staff. CPJ has a solid defensive coaching staff in place. However, offensively, there’s a lot of question marks. We have a lot of issues across the field, especially on our lines, but great coaches find ways to mask issues. Dabo at Clemson is a prime example of what happens when you have great coaches and get a few stud players. Clemson took off when Chad Morris came in and installed an offense that they still run today. They also got Boyd at QB, and since his success they’ve had a surplus of stud QBs come their way. That’s what it takes. Moreover, they have the best DC in the country.
 
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#7
#7
If you read the post it said "in the first place". Not talking about Pruitt. I was talking about Kiffin, Dooley, Butch. I don't know about Pruitt yet.
 
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#8
#8
Just get used to seeing Pruitt on the sidelines atleast for the next 4 years regardless of his W/L record. Don’t even think about another coach bc it’s not gonna happen unless he really sh17s the bed. Recruiting suffers with instability so it’s best to stay the course and give him his chance to succeed. I know it will be rough but that’s just what’s gonna happen. Until he gets things turned around take some solace in the fact we have a legit basketball team.
 
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#9
#9
People learn and grow. Of course you want to keep them. While you are keeping a staff together, take some time to get some great coordinators. The reason UT is a coach graveyard is that the coach traditionally was expected to match Neyland's success. No university in the last 80 years has really been able to sustain that, and Pruitt won't be able to either.
 
#10
#10
keckjm said:
Exactly. We possibly could have signed a big time coach after firing Fulmer, possibly. After that, we were doomed. Currently, our program gets used to make other coaches more money to stay elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Yep. Gary Patterson wanted the job. Good old Hamilton told him to kick rocks. Then we hire the first of 3 consecutive losers.
 
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#11
#11
Its.pretty simple. Coaches have 3-4 years to field a competitive football team. If they.do that fans will be patient and allow them to.fine tune things or get that one special player that pushes them to the top. If after 3 years you are entering the season knowing you probably wont be competitive in most of your games, the back door discussions to gauge instrest start. If in 4 years its much the same and the word rebuilding.is.still used,.its time to move on.
 
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#13
#13
Firebirdparts said:
People learn and grow. Of course you want to keep them. The reason UT is a coach graveyard is that the coach traditionally was expected to match Neyland's success. No university in the last 80 years has really been able to sustain that, so it's a means of getting coaches fired, but it doesn't really get results.
Click to expand...

I think another big problem is people see a new coach at a D1 powerhouse and think ANY coach can just do what Saban or Smart has done. Its utterly ridiculous. No 2 coaching situations are the same. So the same standard should not be expected.
 
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#16
#16
Jonsson said:
Right, because proven coaches were just knocking our door down 9-10 months ago...
Click to expand...

How many proven coaches did we even reach out to? How many did we offer “serious about winning money” to? 8-10 million? People want to say no coach wanted to come here. I say we weren’t serious about getting a big big time coach. Currie had Schiano as his guy from day one, that’s widely known.
 
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#17
#17
The Tall Gguy said:
How about hiring a proven coach in the first place.
Click to expand...

Proven coaches wont come to Tennessee unless they are an alum
Wasn't Butch a proven coach, So to speak?
Winning seasons at two different schools. Bowl games
Not proven in the sense of conference champs or national champs or in the top # 25 though
 
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#19
#19
I was favoring John Harbaugh or Anthony Lynn, (chargers), who was just dying to get out of Buffalo at the same time we should have been getting rid of CBJ at end of '16. Pruitt is gonna be okay in time IMO. He's definitely football savvy and recruits will buy in. Be surprised what a good athletic QB can do for a team and the big question mark for me is also our offensive coaches.
 
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#20
#20
rocky top buzz said:
There is another thread talking about how Clemson got where they are by hanging on to Dabo when he didn't start so great. It got me thinking, is the key to winning just keeping the coach? Seems to have worked at Clemson, and even uk with stoops is on a roll. But then that makes me think, was UT premature in firing Dooley/Butch? I don't think so. I think we have to judge a coach beyond wins and losses, here are a few things I see:

- Has to be able to consistently recruit top 10 classes, with at least 1-2 five stars each cycle. Also has to limit attrition of those classes over 4 years.

- Has to show ability to develop talent. Outside of Barnett and Dobbs we didn't see that from Butch.

- Injuries. These are more than accidental. I think with Butch the constant injuries were a sign of development failures.

- Surrounded with quality coordinators. I think this is what has made smart look brilliant early on, Chaney is a very good oc.

- Able to manage a program. This is one flaw I am worried about with cjp and hope he gets it together quick.

I see no reason a coach cannot win in the long run if they succeed in these areas. If Pruitt gets through this year and we see improvement in play regardless of wins, and we see solid recruiting, no reason Tenneesse can't get back to the top.
Click to expand...
Dabo won the ACC in year 3
 
#21
#21
Firebirdparts said:
People learn and grow. Of course you want to keep them. While you are keeping a staff together, take some time to get some great coordinators. The reason UT is a coach graveyard is that the coach traditionally was expected to match Neyland's success. No university in the last 80 years has really been able to sustain that, and Pruitt won't be able to either.
Click to expand...
You're correct. My personal opinion is need to sustain relative success over number of years ranging from 8-10 wins, then hope to catch that player(s) to put you over the top...but takes time to get there. Both Dickey and Majors only had 4 wins in their first year. The key question is, whether you've got the right HC to develop and build the program. Butch did give us two 9 win seasons, but there always seemed to be the "choke" factor in important games, and didn't build depth on OL/DL, which did him in and put us in this spot today. Pruitt is tough minded and plain spoken and can recruit...which are big steps in the right direction. Could be entirely wrong, and I can't tell you who, but I think we'll get an SEC win from someone this year, whether it's us playing lights out, or someone playing down to our level.
 
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#25
#25
rocky top buzz said:
There is another thread talking about how Clemson got where they are by hanging on to Dabo when he didn't start so great. It got me thinking, is the key to winning just keeping the coach? Seems to have worked at Clemson, and even uk with stoops is on a roll. But then that makes me think, was UT premature in firing Dooley/Butch? I don't think so. I think we have to judge a coach beyond wins and losses, here are a few things I see:

- Has to be able to consistently recruit top 10 classes, with at least 1-2 five stars each cycle. Also has to limit attrition of those classes over 4 years.

- Has to show ability to develop talent. Outside of Barnett and Dobbs we didn't see that from Butch.

- Injuries. These are more than accidental. I think with Butch the constant injuries were a sign of development failures.

- Surrounded with quality coordinators. I think this is what has made smart look brilliant early on, Chaney is a very good oc.

- Able to manage a program. This is one flaw I am worried about with cjp and hope he gets it together quick.

I see no reason a coach cannot win in the long run if they succeed in these areas. If Pruitt gets through this year and we see improvement in play regardless of wins, and we see solid recruiting, no reason Tenneesse can't get back to the top.
Click to expand...
Butch did nothing to develop Dobbs or Barnett. Those guys overcame bad coaching. Would have love to seen Dobbs under an actual QB coach.
 
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