That's racist!

#24,251
#24,251
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I acknowledge there were free black communities. I just don't think there was much consensual race mixing happening in those communities. Remember it was only in 1967 with Loving vs Virginia was decided where the Supreme Court said laws against interracial marriage were unconstitutional. If interracial relationships were considered illegal in many parts of this country as late as the 1960s, you really think during slavery it would happen?

You can quibble about percentages and what is or isn't significant. The truth of the matter is that the overwhelming reason the average Black American in modern times carries roughly 20% European male DNA is because of rape by white slave masters during slavery. Consensual relationships were not the reason. It was because of the brutal history of slavery in this country.
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the fact that there were laws meant it was prevalent enough to need a law banning that marriage. which goes in the face of your stance of it pretty much never happening.

also while speaking of miscegenation laws, you might want to look up Eleanor Butler. a white woman who tried to marry a black slave in Maryland. pretty much every state had multiple cases of whites wanting to marry interracially, most were free to free, but you get some fun cases like Eleanor of a free white wanting to marry an enslaved black.
 
#24,254
#24,254
LouderVol said:
the fact that there were laws meant it was prevalent enough to need a law banning that marriage. which goes in the face of your stance of it pretty much never happening.

also while speaking of miscegenation laws, you might want to look up Eleanor Butler. a white woman who tried to marry a black slave in Maryland. pretty much every state had multiple cases of whites wanting to marry interracially, most were free to free, but you get some fun cases like Eleanor of a free white wanting to marry an enslaved black.
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The DNA speaks louder than one off anecdotes. You can't try to make black men being with white woman during slavery into a thing when the European DNA in the African American genome is almost entirely found on the Y-chromosome. Meaning it came from white males not white females.

Also laws can be preventative rather than reactionary. Its not like there needs to be widespread murder in a society to make murder illegal.
 
#24,255
#24,255
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
There's a difference between being the slaver versus the enslaved. I'm talking about the perspective of not only being enslaved as was the case for black Americans but also being told you are inferior because of it. So while everyone on planet earth was enslaved at some point only American chattel slavery tied skin color and notions of racial supremacy and inferiority to the enslavement.

Black Americans were told they were inferior to whites because of their race. No other group has had that done to them for 400+ years.
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Not quite. There are for example black Brazilians and other nationalities in the Western Hemisphere, South Sudanese in Africa, Orang Asli and various hill tribes in SEA.
 
#24,259
#24,259
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
The DNA speaks louder than one off anecdotes. You can't try to make black men being with white woman during slavery into a thing when the European DNA in the African American genome is almost entirely found on the Y-chromosome. Meaning it came from white males not white females.

Also laws can be preventative rather than reactionary. Its not like there needs to be widespread murder in a society to make murder illegal.
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one off anecdotes? You were the one who brought up the laws. laws aren't one off anecdotal evidence. they were in pretty much every state. and some of them for more than a hundred years. that is hardly "one off".

I even pointed out that each state had multiple cases. that's why some states ended up repealing those laws before the Supreme Court ruling, because it kept being challenged in their state. again, you assuming its "one off anecdotes" denies history and makes some very racist assumptions of your own people in order to maintain a worse level of victimhood than actually existed.

again not denying the victimhood, I am just pointing out the context of it, that you clearly did not know.
 
#24,260
#24,260
whodeycin85 said:
All slaves are told and treated that's they are inferior....if they weren't they wouldn't be enslaved.
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Not really. Most slavery in the past was based on war or economics. Most slaves were usually captives from war. The women would become concubines and the children house servants. Grown men were usually killed. Also if a family was really poor they would sometimes sell members of the family into slavery. The story of Joseph in the Bible comes to mind though his brothers sold him because of jealousy not for money.

Slavery based on ideas of racial supremacy are very new and only happened in the Americas. In the Islamic world for example it was common for Arabs, whites, and blacks to be enslaved. There wasn't just one race destined to enslavement as was the case here in America.
 
#24,261
#24,261
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Not really. Most slavery in the past was based on war or economics. Most slaves were usually captives from war. The women would become concubines and the children house servants. Grown men were usually killed. Also if a family was really poor they would sometimes sell members of the family into slavery. The story of Joseph in the Bible comes to mind though his brothers sold him because of jealousy not for money.

Slavery based on ideas of racial supremacy are very new and only happened in the Americas. In the Islamic world for example it was common for Arabs, whites, and blacks to be enslaved. There wasn't just one race destined to enslavement as was the case here in America.
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So slaves were treated equally after being enslaved??
It did not only happen in America.... It happened in Europe as well...
You didn't enslave people you believe have the same value as yourself.
 
#24,263
#24,263
LouderVol said:
one off anecdotes? You were the one who brought up the laws. laws aren't one off anecdotal evidence. they were in pretty much every state. and some of them for more than a hundred years. that is hardly "one off".

I even pointed out that each state had multiple cases. that's why some states ended up repealing those laws before the Supreme Court ruling, because it kept being challenged in their state. again, you assuming its "one off anecdotes" denies history and makes some very racist assumptions of your own people in order to maintain a worse level of victimhood than actually existed.

again not denying the victimhood, I am just pointing out the context of it, that you clearly did not know.
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Why do you keep ignoring the DNA evidence? If black men and white women mixing was a thing why is there no genetic evidence of this? The 20% European DNA in the African American genome is almost entirely found in the Y-DNA. Which means it came from European men.

The reverse is true in North Africa. Among the pale skin North Africans there is European DNA but its found almost entirely in the mtDNA which is passed from mother to daughter. Meaning it was European women that mixed with North African men creating the modern admixture found in North Africa. And how did these European women end up in North Africa but no European men? Because of slavery. The North African slave trade was one of sex slavery not chattel slavery. So white female sex slaves were imported from Europe into North Africa. These women procreated with the native men and created the modern populations in the region that have European ancestry.

Slavery resulted in these asymmetrical genetic distributions because its not about love but power. The powerful men in each scenario end up having their way with the weak and vulnerable women.
 
#24,264
#24,264
SpaceCoastVol said:
Well that is my disclaimer. As long as they don't institute some kind of insanely stupid 'wealth tax', I'm good with it. I'm on a fixed income now. 😂 🤣
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You play the options game on your stocks at all? That's how I've been passing the time since selling the biz and working remotely part time.

You could pick up a short gains tax and feel normal again.
 
#24,265
#24,265
whodeycin85 said:
So slaves were treated equally after being enslaved??
It did not only happen in America.... It happened in Europe as well...
You didn't enslave people you believe have the same value as yourself.
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In other parts of the world people of all skin colors got enslaved. Only in the Americas was it decided only black people could be enslaved. That's the point there. That American chattel slavery for the first time in human history associated only one skin color to slavery. Other societies in the past didn't pick out only one race for enslavement. They enslaved everyone.
 
#24,266
#24,266
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
In other parts of the world people of all skin colors got enslaved. Only in the Americas was it decided only black people could be enslaved. That's the point there. That American chattel slavery for the first time in human history associated only one skin color to slavery. Other societies in the past didn't pick out only one race for enslavement. They enslaved everyone.
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Chattel slavery is a thought history.... And white were enslaved in America to. We kept a system that was started by Spanish in 1502.. So not exclusive to America.
 
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#24,267
#24,267
whodeycin85 said:
So slaves were treated equally after being enslaved??
It did not only happen in America.... It happened in Europe as well...
You didn't enslave people you believe have the same value as yourself.
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Bros upset his ancestors sold his ancestors for sea shells and cooking pots. Slavery Supply Side Econmics is lost on him.
 
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#24,268
#24,268
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
In other parts of the world people of all skin colors got enslaved. Only in the Americas was it decided only black people could be enslaved. That's the point there. That American chattel slavery for the first time in human history associated only one skin color to slavery. Other societies in the past didn't pick out only one race for enslavement. They enslaved everyone.
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It was at first an issue of convenience, the ships heading to the new world passed by North and West Africa. Picking up and transporting Eastern European, Middle Eastern or Asian slaves wasnt practical. Youd have to warehouse them, transport and feed them for the better part of a year.

Couple that with an existing Western African slave market among the powerful nations that existed there at the time.

I think the "lesser human" aspect of slavery in the Americas came as a later justification in subsequent generations to make it ok, as modern sensibilities viewed slavery as problematic/troubling.

These slaves weren't taken because they were considered less than human. It was a need and convenience/access aspect that lead to African slavery in the new world. The justifications weren't needed until civilization started to really take route in subsequent generations.
 
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#24,269
#24,269
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
In other parts of the world people of all skin colors got enslaved. Only in the Americas was it decided only black people could be enslaved. That's the point there. That American chattel slavery for the first time in human history associated only one skin color to slavery. Other societies in the past didn't pick out only one race for enslavement. They enslaved everyone.
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Africans weren’t selling white people for cheap labor.
 
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