Tennessee Head Coach Josh Heupel Is A Tier 1 Coach In College Football

#51
#51
J C Higgins said:
As I said before it depends on what you have to work with. Saban coaching the talent Snyder had to work with wouldn't have won a national championship and wouldn't be considered elite.

It's a beauty contest for most people including sportswriters and talking heads but my point is that coaches, especially those that face each other, know the difference.
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Part of coaching is landing talent. I promise you that nobody who faced Saban in the past 25 years is putting anyone over him, and they certainly aren’t docking points because he recruited well.
 
#53
#53
EZE said:
Great points. And a question….how many times did Saban go undefeated with the best rosters in college football by far? Not many.

We have a lot of ridiculous fans.
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Saban has 6 or 7 NC's between 2 schools. Its not about going undefeated, its about winning SEC titles and crystal footballs whether undefeated or 2 losses. Either way, nobody is winning a championahip of any kind without elite talent. Ridiculous fans is spot on.
 
#56
#56
LegionnaireOfTheMiserable said:
Part of coaching is landing talent. I promise you that nobody who faced Saban in the past 25 years is putting anyone over him, and they certainly aren’t docking points because he recruited well.
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I don't include recruiting ability as a part of being a great coach. I'll stick with my definition posted above. Recruiting is salesmanship and/or buying power, not coaching.
 
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#57
#57
9876543vol said:
How quick you forgot that our program was almost dead after Pruitt, how quick you forgot the black cloud of NCAA penalties that was hanging around our program for two years, How quick you forgot the many players that transfered out of our program and left us with a very limited roster, what Heupel accomplished in 2021 and 2022 was a miracle, and that miracle will continue this year!!!
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Oh, I have not forgot. Hence the “free agency” related comment that you, for some stupid reason, decided to highlight in red. Do you think he would have been able to accomplish what he did without (college free agency)?

If so, you are in the minority. If not, why post what you posted?
 
#59
#59
Volizona said:
Everyone agrees that CJH is a great person, has done a great job getting us back in the limelight and is likely the most likable coach in our history. A few games over the past two years were a bit too close for comfort, including Florida and Bama last year. We came out with wins, but I was concerned with how ultra conservative Heupel got. We could have come out on the wrong side. I hope he goes back to his aggressive mentality of 2021 and 2022. Playing not to lose always comes back to bite you. Ask Fulmer and Butch.
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This is how I feel exactly. I like CJH and by no means trying to complain. But I’ve seen too much of the ultra conservative play calling when Butch was here that it still pisses me off when I think about it. Going up 7-10 points and then trying to coast to a win against OK(Baker)/Bama/ etc doesn’t work. Wife thought I was crazy because as soon as TN would score I’d start rooting for the other team to score, all to force Butch to have to keep the foot on the gas. And when he didn’t the defense would eventually fold when the offense couldn’t stay on the field. Then everyone here would flip out blaming the defense I stead of Butch.

Needless to say I don’t think I’ll ever get over it. Don’t want to see CJH fall into that nonsense. We even heard him on the hot mic admit it on the field after the OK game.
 
#60
#60
J C Higgins said:
I don't include recruiting ability as a part of being a great coach. I'll stick with my definition posted above. Recruiting is salesmanship and/or buying power, not coaching.
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I feel like if Tennessee had a great recruiter, then all the “crootin ain’t coachin” posters would change their tune.

If you don’t think Saban’s ability to develop players didn’t help him more than his salesmanship did, there’s no helping you.
 
#61
#61
jeff1vol said:
Is the goal to beat Bama and UF or win championships? clear it up for us.
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The team has several goals.

Beating Bama and Florida is definitely two of those goals, and CJH has accomplished it while so many other coaches did not
 
#63
#63
advancedrescue27 said:
This is how I feel exactly. I like CJH and by no means trying to complain. But I’ve seen too much of the ultra conservative play calling when Butch was here that it still pisses me off when I think about it. Going up 7-10 points and then trying to coast to a win against OK(Baker)/Bama/ etc doesn’t work. Wife thought I was crazy because as soon as TN would score I’d start rooting for the other team to score, all to force Butch to have to keep the foot on the gas. And when he didn’t the defense would eventually fold when the offense couldn’t stay on the field. Then everyone here would flip out blaming the defense I stead of Butch.

Needless to say I don’t think I’ll ever get over it. Don’t want to see CJH fall into that nonsense. We even heard him on the hot mic admit it on the field after the OK game.
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yea you are crazy. I never cheer for the other team to score and nor would I.

CJH is not "ultra conservative", he calls plays with what he as to work with and whom he is playing. But unlike Butch, Heupel actually wins big games and has Tennessee in the top 10
 
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#65
#65
LegionnaireOfTheMiserable said:
I feel like if Tennessee had a great recruiter, then all the “crootin ain’t coachin” posters would change their tune.

If you don’t think Saban’s ability to develop players didn’t help him more than his salesmanship did, there’s no helping you.
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Well we'll have to agree to disagree. I think having four and five star players 3 deep at every position was more important.
 
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#69
#69
jeff1vol said:
Saban has 6 or 7 NC's between 2 schools. Its not about going undefeated, its about winning SEC titles and crystal footballs whether undefeated or 2 losses. Either way, nobody is winning a championahip of any kind without elite talent. Ridiculous fans is spot on.
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The post I responded to made a point about losing to inferior teams. And my response was directed at that. Read a little before popping off.

And on your national title claim…Vols have ONE in the last 50 years. Yes, it should be the goal. But if you are going to complain about UT coaches not winning national titles, I got news for you. You will never be happy.

Finally, I think Heupel gives us as good a shot at a title as anybody.
 
#70
#70
#1fulmerite said:
Add Saban to that list and he’s pretty much on target.
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I was only considering active coaches, but before he retired I would certainly have listed him. Saban is the only coach whose career was predominantly in the 2000s who I would put in tier 1 all time. Mayyybe Pete Carroll, and Kirby or Day could get there, but as of now Saban is the only no brainer from this century on the all time tier 1 list imo.

I just don’t see how you can put a guy who has never even made a major conference championship game on Tier 1. Heupel just isn’t there yet. He can get there, but it’s no given. I think it’s equally likely that he has already peaked as it is that he ever reaches tier 1 in the eyes of anyone but Vol fans.
 
#71
#71
#1fulmerite said:
College version of free agency and his new offensive scheme really did help in his first couple of years and, last year’s schedule did wonders for our success but, it’s still early.

Took Spurrier six years. On the opposite side, Bowden reached the summit his first year at Auburn and was crowned. Summlin, Chizik, Malzahn, the fat guy at ND 20 years ago and many more do well in the beginning, catch fire then mellow.
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Charlie Weiss went 3-9 in his 3rd year at ND.

Sumlin won 10+ games his first season and then never more than 8 (Heupel has won at least 9 each of the last 3 seasons with two 10+ win seasons).
 
#72
#72
LegionnaireOfTheMiserable said:
I was only considering active coaches, but before he retired I would certainly have listed him. Saban is the only coach whose career was predominantly in the 2000s who I would put in tier 1 all time. Mayyybe Pete Carroll, and Kirby or Day could get there, but as of now Saban is the only no brainer from this century on the all time tier 1 list imo.

I just don’t see how you can put a guy who has never even made a major conference championship game on Tier 1. Heupel just isn’t there yet. He can get there, but it’s no given. I think it’s equally likely that he has already peaked as it is that he ever reaches tier 1 in the eyes of anyone but Vol fans.
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"in the eyes of anyone but Vol fans" 😂

I agree CJH is a top ten coach in the country and not top 3 as Smart and Day and Dabo (although he outcoached Dabo pretty well), he would've been in the SEC title game and a 2nd playoff appearance in 2022 under current rules. I suspect the next 5 seasons or so will show if he continues to win at an elite rate (with titles hopefully as well) or not.
 
#73
#73
Rickyvol77 said:
"in the eyes of anyone but Vol fans" 😂

I agree CJH is a top ten coach in the country and not top 3 as Smart and Day and Dabo (although he outcoached Dabo pretty well), he would've been in the SEC title game and a 2nd playoff appearance in 2022 under current rules. I suspect the next 5 seasons or so will show if he continues to win at an elite rate (with titles hopefully as well) or not.
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I think he has a good argument for top 10, but being top 10 doesn’t make you top tier.

For instance, does the 10th best team really have a chance to win the national championship? No, they are usually a tier below the true contenders.
 
#74
#74
LegionnaireOfTheMiserable said:
I think he has a good argument for top 10, but being top 10 doesn’t make you top tier.

For instance, does the 10th best team really have a chance to win the national championship? No, they are usually a tier below the true contenders.
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I'd say any of the top 12 teams have a chance to win the National title these days, and he is definitely top 10 even if he doesn't fall in your "top .000001%" tier. There aren't 10 better coaches in the country when looking at it
 
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#75
#75
Rickyvol77 said:
I'd say any of the top 12 teams have a chance to win the National title these days, and he is definitely top 10 even if he doesn't fall in your "top .000001%" tier. There aren't 10 better coaches in the country when looking at it
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We didn’t have a chance to win the national championship last year. Play it out one million times, and we never get one. Same with Indiana, Boise, Clemson, SMU, Arizona State. There certainly aren’t 12 teams that have a shot. Last year there were like 5 or 6 teams that could have won it, and a couple of those would have really needed things to go perfectly.
 
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