"Tennessee has a bust problem"

#51
#51
DocVOLiday said:
No need to be that dramatic


Most on here would argue that butch deserves (at least) some heat.

And this article attempts to show a fault of butch's (developing talent (or perhaps evaluating talent)). I don't agree with everything the writer says, but he does point a finger at something many people here have been concerned about.

Nobody is going to burn anything other than a mattress or couch
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Point taken..... I think I've just heard too much crying and complaining about the same thing. It's enough to last me a lifetime. Last night I dreamed Butch was being crucified and burned at the stake for not going for two when up by 12
 
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#54
#54
KBVol said:
You can correctly cite other issues. But there's just no denying that Butch and this staff is poor at developing and managing their players....especially their most talented, highest profile players. Simmons did a nice job cataloging and pointing it all out IMO.
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I agree. I also believe the tenor of his article was to illustrate how these top-tier talent players just haven't developed into game changing impact players. Sure, some are very serviceable, even quality players, but they certainly haven't become All-American type players, which frankly begs this question: Where's the evidence of the coaching ability to develop players in today's time frame, which isn't well into their third and fourth years at many other programs.
 
#59
#59
jakez4ut said:
it did get a bit in to the weeds when he starting with the "if i count this guy or that guy, then it's this"....

but the overall point, especially for O linemen, WR and DB's....there's not been any real debate about the lack of development taking place.

it's the result of a lot of the symptoms that have been discussed here already....s&c program needs to be improved immensely.....position coaches need to be better teachers.....coordinators and HC need to be able to put them all in better situations to succeed.

i don't think anyone can say there's not a development issue. too many positions you can point and rightfully argue there's been regression. too few that show real progress.
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Lmfao just the WR position alone is vastly better this year. The article isn't worth a ****. Jbh
 
#60
#60
I've tried to find a "Georgia has a bust problem" article on the internet with no luck... They certainly do have MANY more 5 star players on their roster than we do but strangely an even worse record (7-5) and we've beaten them the last two years while they also lost to Vanderbilt.
 
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#61
#61
BowlBrother85 said:
I've tried to find a "Georgia has a bust problem" article on the internet with no luck... They certainly do have MANY more 5 star players on their roster than we do but strangely an even worse record (7-5) and we've beaten them the last two years while they also lost to Vanderbilt.
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That's easy to explain. They were well-coached into developing as players but then just choked on the field when it mattered.
 
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#62
#62
BowlBrother85 said:
I've tried to find a "Georgia has a bust problem" article on the internet with no luck... They certainly do have MANY more 5 star players on their roster than we do but strangely an even worse record (7-5) and we've beaten them the last two years while they also lost to Vanderbilt.
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As did Ole Miss. I can't tell you how many times I've read on here how great of a coach Freeze is lol. The media hates UT fans for some reason. They love to throw **** against the checkered wall.
 
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#63
#63
QuickSmurf said:
As did Ole Miss. I can't tell you how many times I've read on here how great of a coach Freeze is lol. The media hates UT fans for some reason. They love to throw **** against the checkered wall.
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The media has definitely taken it easy on Freeze this season. He did a terrible job keeping that team together at the end of the season and his program is even under investigation.
 
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#64
#64
BowlBrother85 said:
The media has definitely taken it easy on Freeze this season. He did a terrible job keeping that team together at the end of the season and his program is even under investigation.
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I know and it's crazy to me. They must think that most UT fans are impatient and want to write something to appeal to them? Idk
 
#65
#65
CA_Vol said:
It's hard to argue against the fact that many of our top recruits either do not develop in any meaningful way or take years to do it. It is frankly why I believe we haven't seen the success come yet.

Butch Jones and Tennessee have an alarming deficiency developing talent

"Since Butch Jones took over at Tennessee in December of 2012, he's gotten his fair share of those Top100-caliber recruits. In the classes of 2013, 2014 and 2015, Jones has brought in 10 players out of the high school ranks that fell into the Top100 according to the recruiting industry generated 247Sports Composite.

Those players were:

DT, Kahlil McKenzie (No. 6, class of 2015)

WR, Josh Malone (No. 36, class of 2014)

DE, Kyle Phillips (No. 36, class of 2015)

RB, Jalen Hurd (No. 40, class of 2014)

WR, Preston Williams (No. 48, class of 2015)

DT, Shy Tuttle (No. 53, class of 2015)

OT, Drew Richmond (No. 54, class of 2015)

S, Todd Kelly Jr. (No. 61, class of 2014)

WR, Marquez North (No. 90, class of 2013)

LB, Dillon Bates (No. 95, class of 2014)

Since arriving on campus, that group has been a collective bust. If we say that a Top100 player should correlate in talent to a NFL draft pick in the first three rounds (which is the way 247Sports projects our rankings), then Tennessee has hit on three of 10 if we're being generous.

Two of those hits would be Shy Tuttle and Jalen Hurd. While Tuttle has been very good when he's on the field, injury issues have rendered him ineffective this fall. Meanwhile Hurd has voluntarily left the team just a few yards shy of Tennessee's all-time rushing record. NFL sources have indicated to me that despite his red flags, he's still very much in the picture as a high draft pick.

After a slow start to his career, Josh Malone is having a breakout junior season at wide receiver and still has time to "make it," so we included him in the three-out-of-10 tally. McKenzie, Richmond and Phillips still have time to develop, too, even if it looks unlikely that they fulfill their lofty expectations. Preston Williams flashed early in his career but if he matches his ranking it will be at Colorado State, where he's transferred.

So that puts Tennessee in a best-case scenario of a 30 percent hit rate on franchise players. Of course maybe it's not Tennessee's fault that its players are overrated. But when you compare similarly ranked players at some of Tennessee's rivals, there's a huge discrepancy in that hit rate."
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All of those guys were great recruits. Bates was nearly a starter as a true Freshman when he got hurt at Georgia. Kelly played great until this season. We see what happened to the DL after Kahlil and Tuttle got hurt.

Perhaps the real question is why doesn't our system develop these guys better and faster. (Malone, Richmond, Phillips) and why are our transfers starters (Hurd, Williams) instead of guys destined for the 3 deep? ...And why do we have so many injuries as everyone on this list has had significant injury(s).

Danny O can't be blamed on anybody.
 
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#66
#66
Let's compare Trent Thompson to Khalil McKenzie. Both are sophomores and they were the #1 and 2 DT in their class. Thompson is a stud and McKenzie serviceable
 
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#67
#67
volunteerfan said:
Let's compare Trent Thompson to Khalil McKenzie. Both are sophomores and they were the #1 and 2 DT in their class. Thompson is a stud and McKenzie serviceable
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A better comparison would have been Tuttle as K-Mac wasn't allowed to play his Senior year due to transferring and I believe he couldn't early enroll either. But since they were both injured, you can't really compare either of them to Thompson.
 
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#68
#68
McDad said:
No way the home of Dolly Parton has a bust problem.
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#69
#69
volunteerfan said:
Let's compare Trent Thompson to Khalil McKenzie. Both are sophomores and they were the #1 and 2 DT in their class. Thompson is a stud and McKenzie serviceable
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No. Let's compare Tennessee to Georgia. They played comparable schedules. Tennessee is 8-4 and Georgia is 7-5. They both lost to Vanderbilt and Tennessee has beaten Georgia the last two years.
 
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#70
#70
Jones's only claim to fame has been his recruiting and with info like this out there the recruits are going to jump ship.
If we wait to drop him( which we will) then we are back to a bare cup board for our new coaching search for 2018.

Stupid to wait, but we shall.
 
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#71
#71
Catbone said:
Malone, Tuttle, and Mckenzie, are good. Richmond seems to be coming along now. Kelly is average. Bates hasn't done anything. North didn't do much outside two great catches. Phillips hasn't done anything. Hurd quit. Williams quit.
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Sums it up. Question is do we have more of a problem developing talent than other top tier schools. Answer is probably yes.
 
#72
#72
All teams have busts on their teams. To include Alabama, T.O.S.U., USC (Mitch Mustang) etc.etc. etc.
 
#74
#74
DT, Kahlil McKenzie - out

WR, Josh Malone - leading receiver

DE, Kyle Phillips - playing DT due to injuries

RB, Jalen Hurd - quit

WR, Preston Williams - quit

DT, Shy Tuttle - injured

OT, Drew Richmond - Starting Tackle

S, Todd Kelly Jr. - played safety (banged up)

LB, Dillon Bates - bust


Of these 9 guys only 3 started during the Vanderbilt game. People have been saying we have a "develop mental problem" since the Fulmer days. I truly believe that most of this teams problems were injuries.

With that said we desperately need a new linebacker coach. Thighpen can recruit top athletes but once those guys get injured, we are screwed. I felt like we had serviceable talent behind Kirkland and Maybin, but for most of the season our second level was consistently out of position.
 
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