Tennessee football players involved in brawl

#2,027
#2,027
utmba93 said:
Perhaps you could summarize the 'actual' event to which you refer then Wheaton.

Whatever happened inside the bar seems to be in dispute. So, bringing clarity to that situation would, by far, be the greatest contribution of insight you've ever shared on VN. In fact, if you can do that, it would likely be the greatest contribution you have made to any cause on or off the internet.

Yet, the overwhelming account of the outside activity to which I referred is as stated... simply one punch, one kick.

BTW...the story is what you were referring to earlier, troll.
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There are multiple summaries available given by eye witnesses.

The only person I have read about that has disputed what the other witnesses described has been a defense attorney. Imagine that!

utmba93 said:
BTW, Wheaton, if you do come to Knoxville for the Duck game, I doubt you'd go to Bar Knoxville.

However, if you could identify yourself to someone on VN, that person could attach the well-earned "kick me" sign on your back, so you could enjoy your stay.
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I would love to go, see Tennessee, how you guys do football, etc. But, I can't fit a football road trip in this year.

Sorry to disappoint.

sjt18 said:
I doubt you have followed this story as closely as many of us here have. Can you cite a credible report that says players were beating a guy on the ground?
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Russell, 20, says he was attacked and beaten by a group of Tennessee football players, including sophomore defensive tackle Montori Hughes and senior receiver Denarius Moore, early last Friday morning at Bar Knoxville, a nightspot near campus. A bar-clearing brawl ensued, leading to one Tennessee player being dismissed, two others being suspended and an off-duty Knoxville Police Department officer being knocked unconscious and sent to the hospital.

...

Russell and several others who were at the bar, including Morton, tell a different story.

Morton said he didn't necessarily see what initiated the fight but emphasized that he saw six or seven football players beating and kicking Russell while he was on the ground.

...

Paige Whaley, a student at a nearby community college, was also at the bar when the fight occurred and said she was within a few feet of where Russell and Hughes bumped into each other.

"I got pushed when it all happened and turned around and there were seven guys on top of [Russell] before you knew it," Whaley said. "They were beating the living crap out of him. I saw one come up and kick him in the head. It was ridiculous."
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Gary Russell claims he was attacked, beaten by Tennessee players Montori Hughes, Denarius Moore - ESPN

According to witnesses, the officer was hit in the head and kicked several times while lying unconscious on the ground.
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Tennessee player dismissed after bar brawl that left officer injured - CNN.com

"I don't know what happened, but several of the guys started beating up the other customer," she told the newspaper. "I want to guess there was seven to 10 guys beating up this one gentleman."
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Tennessee players charged after brawl at Knoxville bar - USATODAY.com

“All the security then rushed in and were trying to break it up. My husband saw them picking up bar stools and starting to swing them. We got them out the door with security. There happened to be a friend of ours who was an off-duty police officer outside. He tried to help, and he ended up getting knocked out in the street and proceeded to be kicked while he was down on the ground in the middle of Cumberland.

“That’s basically the gist of it.”

Morton said she interviewed several witnesses but hadn’t determined what started the fight.

“All they said was these several gentlemen just started beating the tar out of this one,” she said. “There was blood. There was ripped shirts. It took pretty much all my security to get them out.”
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Vols football players in brawl at bar - with video | Chattanooga Times Free Press

"I just see eight guys hitting one guy and other people started getting into it so I jumped down there with them," said Bar Knoxville bouncer Brian Stasney.

"Me and Tony, one of the guys I work with, restrained one of the guys. We had him on the ground trying to get him to stop. We have our knees on him, we're holding his head, we're like stop, stop, stop. He wouldn't stop," Stasney said.

The brawl moved outside, leaving behind the first victim, Gary Russell.

"His face was swollen and bloody," Morton said. "They had just gotten him up off the floor."
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Bar Knoxville owner, bouncer describe violence that led to arrests

That's at least five witnesses (Gary Russell, Paige Whaley, Brian Stasney, Allen and Sandy Morton) all describing the same thing.

sjt18 said:
OTOH, you have no pulpit to preach from considering you had a guy who punched a player post-game and then was allowed back on the team.
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How is that? I can't object to football players beating a person on the ground because I root for a team that had a player punch someone?

I object to what Blount did as well. This isn't a competition. It's a matter of right and wrong.

I get no satisfaction from this story. I think it's a shame whenever a talented football player throws away the opportunities they have, regardless of which team they are on.

sjt18 said:
The police officer wasn't involved at all before it went outside when he inserted himself and tried to break it up. I have not seen reports of exactly what was occurring when he stepped in. It could have been a scuffle or guys ganged up on one guy who had royally teed them off by spraying them with pepper spray or else it could have just been the threat that something was about to happen.
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There isn't anything wrong with trying to break up a fight. Knocking a guy out for trying to break up a fight is wrong. Then he was kicked on the ground while unconscious: wrong squared.

sjt18 said:
I see... so it is excusable for a guy to sucker punch an opponent because he trash talked him after the game but wholly inexcusable for guys to fight back in a bar fight possibly after being pepper sprayed?
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No. What Blount did is not excusable. It wasn't excused by myself or the Oregon staff. He was punished for it.

What the UT players did is wholly inexcusable, yes. I think that anyone who hopes that any players are off the hook not because they are innocent but because there isn't enough evidence to charge them has warped priorities. That is why I think that Dooley should suspend every player that was there indefinitely until the entire truth comes out.

Covering up and hiding behind lawyers sends a terrible message.

sjt18 said:
Show the quote. Unless he made a credible and serious threat then it was NOT assault. Even then you have to consider the context was a football game in which there had likely been alot of trash talking going on. You are getting ridiculous now.
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Assault doesn't require a verbal threat. It also doesn't need to be physically damaging. "Offensive contact" meets the definition of assault. Raising your fist at, grabbing a womans breast and slapping a person on the shoulder all meet the legal requirements of assault.

ridethelightening said:
Why in the **** is an Oregon fan speaking about legal issues on this board?
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Freedom of speech?
 
#2,028
#2,028
Thorough. I bet he won several arguments and was verbose and condescending. It is clear he would frustrate a mental midget.
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#2,029
#2,029
wheaton4prez said:
There are multiple summaries available given by eye witnesses...

The only person I have read about that has disputed what the other witnesses described has been a defense attorney. Imagine that!
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Not true. Some of the witnesses have already contradicted themselves in public statements.


How is that? I can't object to football players beating a person on the ground because I root for a team that had a player punch someone?
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No. You just can't claim moral high ground while doing it.
There isn't anything wrong with trying to break up a fight. Knocking a guy out for trying to break up a fight is wrong. Then he was kicked on the ground while unconscious: wrong squared.
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We have yet to have the puncher identified nor have we heard the other side. My guess is that it will be Walls and that Walls will be long gone when this is all over.

However, there is a good chance that this policeman actually made things worse by trying to step in out of uniform.

No. What Blount did is not excusable. It wasn't excused by myself or the Oregon staff. He was punished for it.
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Then reinstated, right?

What the UT players did is wholly inexcusable, yes.
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So if it turns out that the players responded to a guy firing pepper spray at them... still wholly inexcusable? Again, the circumstances that led to this should have never existed but when someone hits you in the face with that stuff... you'll try to fight back.

I think that anyone who hopes that any players are off the hook not because they are innocent but because there isn't enough evidence to charge them has warped priorities.
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I hope justice is served in the legal system. Then I hope justice is served and a "character statement" is made within the program... I simply think you are jumping to (hopeful) conclusions about what the evidence is.

That is why I think that Dooley should suspend every player that was there indefinitely until the entire truth comes out.
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Dooley more than likely knows the truth and has since the day it happened... that's why King and Walls are suspended indefinitely and Myles is gone.

You just keep jumping to these very convenient conclusions about what the facts are then say Dooley should do something based on your opinion... that may not line up with what really happened.

They may be waiting to suspend others so that it doesn't hurt them legally. But right now, we only have firm evidence that 3 guys did something worthy of dismissal or suspension.

Covering up and hiding behind lawyers sends a terrible message.
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Nothing has been covered up. The investigation is on-going and no one has claimed that anyone from the program has been uncooperative.

People have a right to a lawyer in this country. Sometimes it is to help the guilty get off... but sometimes it prevents injustice toward the accused.



Assault doesn't require a verbal threat. It also doesn't need to be physically damaging. "Offensive contact" meets the definition of assault. Raising your fist at, grabbing a womans breast and slapping a person on the shoulder all meet the legal requirements of assault.
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Assault involves a serious and credible threat of harm. I believe most courts use the "reasonable man" standard for determining that.

Slapping a person on the shoulder in a friendly way does NOT constitute assault or battery.
However, a white kid running into a black kid then while trying to wave it off calling the black kid "nigga"... might be considered assault. That was one of the unconfirmed rumors that came out concerning what caused the fight to start with.
Freedom of speech?
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There is no such thing as freedom of speech here. We are all subject to the pleasure of the property owner. You have a right to free speech... you just don't have a right to do it on someone else's dime or privately held property... like a website.
 
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#2,030
#2,030
The kpd police report contradicts what Russell stated to Espn in chris low's article. Russell does admit to throwing the first punch, so why the hell is he not the one arrested for assault. you can keep linking links to favor your arguement wheaton, but there are some stories that contradict a few of your points.
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#2,031
#2,031
Thanks orangespirit.

That's been my point and belief for awhile now. The whole thing inside and with Russell is so convoluted that I doubt anything legally comes from it. When under oath, these witnesses aren't quite giving the same story as when the press comes to visit... or else the press is spinning their comments to make a bigger story (imagine that).

Dooley will probably take some internal action but right now I doubt dismissals will come from it. However, King did something and it seems it would have had to do with Russell and not the policeman.

The thing with the policeman is separate and clearly different. If that was Walls, and it seems it was, then he's gone.
 
#2,032
#2,032
I think the players and everyone at that bar are to blame. And by blame, I don't mean with the fighting. A lot happened that night that we will never know cause the incompetent bar owner hadn't checked on his video for two days. I'm no video expert, but I do know managers that just check tapes daily so no one is shortening the gas draw. Do you stream 48 hours of video without a break now too? That's what I'd like to know.
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#2,033
#2,033
Even very good systems get knocked out by storms or power fluctuations. His probably isn't a very good system to start with. I know enough about them not to buy into the conspiracies about that.

The fundamental problem is "What were these guys doing anywhere other than their beds at 2 AM on a Friday morning?" No classes on Friday?

John Brown shouldn't have been in a disturbance any more significant than making too much noise in the library at that time.

One of the more effective things Kiffin did was schedule workouts for early morning and involve alot of running. I think Dooley should make that a permanent fixture in the program.
 
#2,034
#2,034
BigSteve09 said:
i heard that dooley told the team they were banned from the bars for a while and then he used the term "someone TEST ME!"

so that's good i guess
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Nice!!! I like ol Dooley, and it is nice to have a lawyer as a coach, he is a pretty smart man. I also hope noone tests him
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#2,036
#2,036
i was expecting some sort of announcement of Tuesday or Wednesday about the ongoing investigation. Sounds like CDD is still talking to folks if he is meeting with BAR employees. Anybody heard when he or the police will make any other charges or suspensions? Hate to see this thing affect/hovering over the camps/recruiting and fall practice coming up.
 
#2,037
#2,037
There is so much speculation going on that it's really hard to find any truth to any of it atm. The next story could be about a bouncer accidently bumping into the patron( off duty officer) and knocking him to the curb. All players there that night should be suspended for the ut-martin game and given their first strike. Strike two and you're out unless strike one is beyond a reasonal doubt of some violent malicious intent to hurt someone.
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#2,039
#2,039
sjt18 said:
Even very good systems get knocked out by storms or power fluctuations. His probably isn't a very good system to start with. I know enough about them not to buy into the conspiracies about that.
The fundamental problem is "What were these guys doing anywhere other than their beds at 2 AM on a Friday morning?" No classes on Friday? John Brown shouldn't have been in a disturbance any more significant than making too much noise in the library at that time.
One of the more effective things Kiffin did was schedule workouts for early morning and involve alot of running. I think Dooley should make that a permanent fixture in the program.
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They weren't in their beds at 2 because they're 18-21 year old kids during the summer. If they even have class, a lot of people party on Thursday because people tend to go home on Friday. Either way, some of you have to deal with the fact that kids wanna party and **** gets out of hand. Just because we love football doesn't mean they have to give a damn about us loving football. These things happen. As long as drinking, getting laid, and being young are fun, it will continue to happen.
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#2,040
#2,040
RhodeIslandVol said:
They weren't in their beds at 2 because they're 18-21 year old kids during the summer. If they even have class, a lot of people party on Thursday because people tend to go home on Friday. Either way, some of you have to deal with the fact that kids wanna party and **** gets out of hand.
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Been there, done that... and they STILL had no business being there and especially not WHEN they were there. I scheduled my classes around late Thursday nights when I could. OTOH, I wasn't trying to get academically eligible like Brown nor was I living in a glass house like the rest of these kids. When you take that scholarship and agree to represent the school... It comes with added responsibility. That's just the way it is.

If this is just a random group of students, it probably doesn't even get a paragraph in KNS.

Further, if there's a chance that things will get out of hand, these guys either need to know how to walk away or avoid the situation altogether.
Just because we love football doesn't mean they have to give a damn about us loving football.
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They do have to care about things that directly effect the team and themselves though... like this.
These things happen. As long as drinking, getting laid, and being young are fun, it will continue to happen.
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NONE of those things by necessity lead to an off duty policeman ending up in ICU because a football player clocked him. If these guys cannot control themselves in these situations or else avoid them.... then I guess they get what they deserve, right? But alot of other people including fans and players get something they don't necessarily deserve.

You can dismiss the role of fans if you want... but those guys aren't getting free education and playing front of 100K AND getting a chance to make millions later without the fans.
 
#2,041
#2,041
Are you guys illiterate? Russell states that Hughes pushed then punched him. He then states that he swung back. For those of you wondering how he could take a punch from Hughes and swing back, think of the number of haymakers in bar fights that you have actually seen hit their target.

The police report doesn't dispute Russell's claim. The News Sentinel's report of what was on the police report claimed that he named Chase Nelson as the initial attacker. When the police report came out it stated only that Nelson was named by Russell as a suspect in the beating. The News Sentinel's report was wrong.

Also, Hughes was reportedly thrown out of another bar earlier in the evening for throwing objects and attempting to start a fight with multiple customers. This was more than 3 hours before the Bar Knoxville incident.

It's one thing to support your guys, it's another to live in the magical world of make believe so that your team wins 5 or 6 games this year instead of 4
 
#2,044
#2,044
I just reread chris low's article. I can't remember if it was that one or the one govolsxtra released that same day, but one stated Russell threw the first punch. Both articles look like they have been edited since that day. Maybe my memory is slipping in my age, but I could swear I read in one of those that Russell threw the first punch.
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#2,046
#2,046
thebiz said:
...........

Also, Hughes was reportedly thrown out of another bar earlier in the evening for throwing objects and attempting to start a fight with multiple customers. This was more than 3 hours before the Bar Knoxville incident.
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This is interesting....add that to previous commentary regarding that Hughes verbally expressed he was looking for someone to fight (posted waaaay back). It seems like Russell may have been in the wrong spot at the right time. He may have even stepped up first in this mess, giving Hughes exactly what he was looking for.
 
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