Tennessee and Talent myth

#51
#51
nbakerld said:
To be fair, those guys played because of injuries. McNeil was all-SEC. We should have had more depth. We did have more, but they were dismissed or left.
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Yeah we "should have", but we didn't. Kudos to Fulmer then for almost leaving better depth at C but it really doesn't change anything about the talent that played this year.
 
#52
#52
getyopopcornready said:
The only 4 or 5 star contributers from that 2007 class is Eric Berry, Chris Walker, and Ben Martin. The rest flamed out and others were never highly thought of anyway. Of course the 2008 class was horrible and most of the 2006 class is no longer here.

Outside the 3 I already mentioned, we were left with a bunch of freshmen and walkons to contribute. A lot of the higher rated guys coming out of high school didn't buy into Kiffin's way of things so they were booted off the team (e.g. Brandon Warren, EJ Abrams-Ward, Lennon Creer, Darris Sawtelle, Ahmad Paige, Brent Vinson), all 5 star guys by some recruiting analysts coming out of high school that we definitely NEEDED to contribute this year.

So no, we didn't have top 30 talent PLAYING this year. We had 5 walkons start in key positions this year. Add that with injuries to our 2 deep at middle linebacker (which by the way we started a walkon at already) and we have a team with a lack of talent depth to compete.
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Hardesty, Jones, Moore, Scott, McClendon, Dan Williams, McCoy, Wilks, Rogan, Frazier,
 
#53
#53
The sooner everyone understands the nature of the task at hand then the sooner you can be able to appreciate a 7-5, 6-6, 8-4 type of records over the next couple of seasons and understand why we had that record and see the areas of improvement on the roster and in the program outside just the record. You'll be a much happier fan if you follow this team with a bit more reality.
 
#54
#54
jlovevols said:
Hardesty, Jones, Moore, Scott, McClendon, Dan Williams, McCoy, Wilks, Rogan, Frazier,
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Hardesty, Scott, McClendon, Williams, MCCoy, and Wilks were not from the 2007 class.

Moore, Frazier and Rogan were never expected to come in and be stars.

Jones is slow.
 
#55
#55
VolinDawgland said:
I think the main reason why people don't want to face up to the talent issue is that the implications of lack of talent means no quick fixes, but rather a difficult multi-year process to get us back to competing at the top.

It would be much better if we had a roster like Saban inherited at Alabama then add a couple of top recruiting classes to put them into the championship game, but we don't. Any quick and realistic review of our roster will reveal holes all over the positions and gaps in class level. The task ahead for Kiffin is a major rebuild job, not a refurbish and go.
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well said.

ut ie does raise an interesting question re the repeated 5 step drop against VT. what was up with that?
 
#56
#56
I agree that the 06 & 08 classes were subpar (especially the 08 class), but the talent level was not as low when Kiffin arrived as people like to say it is. 17 players have left since Kiffin was hired. Now a lot of that is expected and Kiffin has done a great job rebuilding, but there was some serious talent on the roster.

P.S. How dare you start a thread that in some manner, shape or form could be construed as even remotely complimentary of Fulmer? Don't you know bashing Fulmer is cool?
 
#57
#57
getyopopcornready said:
Hardesty, Scott, McClendon, Williams, MCCoy, Wilks, and Frazier were not from the 2007 class.

Moore and Rogan were never expected to come in and be stars.

Jones is slow.
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I know, but you said the only other contributers were freshmen and walkons. Completely inacurate.
 
#58
#58
jlovevols said:
I know, but you said the only other contributers were freshmen and walkons. Completely inacurate.
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I was referring to the OP about SEC caliber talent from the 2006-2008 classes. And then mentioned that we were left with A BUNCH of freshmen and walkons to contribute that came in during those years. Didn't say the rest of our team was freshmen and walkons
 
#59
#59
jlovevols said:
I agree that the 06 & 08 classes were subpar (especially the 08 class), but the talent level was not as low when Kiffin arrived as people like to say it is. 17 players have left since Kiffin was hired. Now a lot of that is expected and Kiffin has done a great job rebuilding, but there was some serious talent on the roster.

P.S. How dare you start a thread that in some manner, shape or form could be construed as even remotely complimentary of Fulmer? Don't you know bashing Fulmer is cool?
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I'm amazed that people are not realizing the argument that we didn't have as much talent on our roster DURING THE SEASON as other opponents. Nobody ever said we didn't have talent at one point.
 
#60
#60
getyopopcornready said:
I'm amazed that people are not realizing the argument that we didn't have as much talent on our roster DURING THE SEASON as other opponents. Nobody ever said we didn't have talent at one point.
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I never disagreed with that. All that shows is that Kiffin did well with the talent he had. It's not as evident about the talent Fulmer left, which is what this thread was about, I believe.
 
#61
#61
jlovevols said:
I agree that the 06 & 08 classes were subpar (especially the 08 class), but the talent level was not as low when Kiffin arrived as people like to say it is. 17 players have left since Kiffin was hired. Now a lot of that is expected and Kiffin has done a great job rebuilding, but there was some serious talent on the roster.

P.S. How dare you start a thread that in some manner, shape or form could be construed as even remotely complimentary of Fulmer? Don't you know bashing Fulmer is cool?
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Which guys who left were "serious talent"?
 
#62
#62
jlovevols said:
I never disagreed with that. All that shows is that Kiffin did well with the talent he had. It's not as evident about the talent Fulmer left, which is what this thread was about, I believe.
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The OP said UT is one of the top 30 talented teams in college football today. And then he went on to back that claim up by listing players that were recruited from 2006-2008. I'm not sure he realizes the casualties that have happened with those classes, both during the Fulmer era and after.

Now do we have top 30 talented PLAYERS? Sure. Berry, Jackson, Hardesty, McCoy, Stocker and maybe Dan Williams.

But do we have a top 30 talented team? Hell no. we had freshmen and walkons (Sullins, Sullins, Reviez, Devin Mathis, Shane Reviez, and Tyler Wolf) play significant minutes this season. Now what does that say? That says we don't have the talent necessary at key positions to compete for championships in the SEC. We have more talent in our secondary than any other team in the nation, but that doesn't mean anything when our defensive line isn't getting any pressure on the QB.

We also have one of the best backs in the country with Hardesty. But you saw him struggle in games where defensive linemen who were quick, had good technique and power.
 
#65
#65
getyopopcornready said:
Most of those guys from the 2006-2008 classes didn't suit up this season. Couple that with the lack of development and you have to see why there is a talent "myth".

The only 4 or 5 star contributers from that 2007 class is Eric Berry, Chris Walker, and Ben Martin. The rest flamed out and others were never highly thought of anyway. Of course the 2008 class was horrible and most of the 2006 class is no longer here.

Outside the 3 I already mentioned, we were left with a bunch of freshmen and walkons to contribute. A lot of the higher rated guys coming out of high school didn't buy into Kiffin's way of things so they were booted off the team (e.g. Brandon Warren, EJ Abrams-Ward, Lennon Creer, Darris Sawtelle, Ahmad Paige, Brent Vinson), all 5 star guys by some recruiting analysts coming out of high school that we definitely NEEDED to contribute this year.

So no, we didn't have top 30 talent PLAYING this year. We had 5 walkons start in key positions this year. Add that with injuries to our 2 deep at middle linebacker (which by the way we started a walkon at already) and we have a team with a lack of talent depth to compete.
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Sawtelle was a bust, but not because of a lack of effort or talent. He was injury plagued the whole time he was here, and after this year he called it quits.
 
#69
#69
I think the real problem with the lack of talent in the 06 & 08 classes and the players that left will be the lack of upper classman talent & leadership. We'll see a drop off of redshirt seniors next season (who will be the only ones with eligibility from the 06 class), and true juniors & redshirt sophomores (the 08 class).
 
#70
#70
getyopopcornready said:
So where's all this serious talent Fulmer left us?
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Do you mean: Eric Berry, Chris Walker, Ben Martin, EJ Abrams-Ward, Lennon Creer, Ahmad Paige, Montario Hardesty, Gerald Jones, Denarius Moore, Chris Scott, Jacques McClendon, Dan Williams, Montori Hughes, Rico McCoy, Rod Wilks, Dennis Rogan, Lamarcus Thompson and Savion Frazier?
 
#71
#71
The cupboard wasn't bare, and the talent was just fine when Kiffin got here. Since then, what, 15 or 16 people have left the program... losing players is normal in a transition, but not that many! That's an entire recruiting class!

So, UT might not have had as many depth issues if they could have hung on to some of the players that left the program. OL was always going to be an issue, because it was the one place where Fulmer really did fail, but when Kiffin came in, right after the recruiting class landed, things looked pretty good depth wise at a number of positions.
 
#72
#72
jlovevols said:
Do you mean: Eric Berry, Chris Walker, Ben Martin, EJ Abrams-Ward, Lennon Creer, Ahmad Paige, Montario Hardesty, Gerald Jones, Denarius Moore, Chris Scott, Jacques McClendon, Dan Williams, Montori Hughes, Rico McCoy, Rod Wilks, Dennis Rogan, Lamarcus Thompson and Savion Frazier?
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I would hardly call some of those guys "serious talent." Others are solid contributors or too young to have done much yet.
 
#73
#73
buckeyevol23 said:
I would hardly call some of those guys "serious talent." Others are solid contributors or too young to have done much yet.
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OK.

Serious talent:
Eric Berry, Chris Walker, Ben Martin, Montario Hardesty, Gerald Jones, Denarius Moore, Chris Scott, Dan Williams, Rico McCoy, Dennis Rogan

SEC calibre talent:
EJ Abrams-Ward, Lennon Creer, Ahmad Paige, Jacques McClendon, Montori Hughes, Lamarcus Thompson, Savion Frazier
 
#74
#74
jlovevols said:
Do you mean: Eric Berry, Chris Walker, Ben Martin, EJ Abrams-Ward, Lennon Creer, Ahmad Paige, Montario Hardesty, Gerald Jones, Denarius Moore, Chris Scott, Jacques McClendon, Dan Williams, Montori Hughes, Rico McCoy, Rod Wilks, Dennis Rogan, Lamarcus Thompson and Savion Frazier?
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Really? I already mentioned Berry, Walker and Martin as the only 3 elite talents on the roster from Fulmer.

The other guys you list are either nowhere near serious talent or are not even with the program.
 
#75
#75
jlovevols said:
OK.

Serious talent:
Eric Berry, Chris Walker, Ben Martin, Montario Hardesty, Gerald Jones, Denarius Moore, Chris Scott, Dan Williams, Rico McCoy, Dennis Rogan

SEC calibre talent:
EJ Abrams-Ward, Lennon Creer, Ahmad Paige, Jacques McClendon, Montori Hughes, Lamarcus Thompson, Savion Frazier
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Seriously. Even if this was the argument and all these guys you list were even still on the team. You need more than 17 "SEC caliber" players from 4 years of recruits to compete in college football.

17 SEC caliber players out of what? 75-80? That's a ridiculously horrible job of recruiting.
 
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