Tennessee and Talent myth

#1
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AFL2008

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#1
I see a lot of threads on this site where people talk about Fulmer leaving the cupboard bare, and UT not having talent, etc...

But, you guys do realize that UT is probably one of the 30 most talented teams in the country right?

Go check the recruiting classes from 2006 to now. Pretty good talent in those classes except for 2008. The problem was development, not lack of talent.

That and a whole bunch of transfers.

So the fact that the 2008 class was mediocre, and most of the 2007 class is gone now, or underachieved = a gap in recruiting. Not really a lack of talent, more like a lack of players.

Seriously, look at VT's recruiting. Since 2006, they have 18 4* and 1 5* player on the roster.

In that same time, UT had 8 5* and 26 4* players. So, on paper, UT is much more talented than VT. All the transfers out, and some shoddy OL recruiting are the only things keeping UT from succeeding right now.
 
#2
#2
AFL2008 said:
I see a lot of threads on this site where people talk about Fulmer leaving the cupboard bare, and UT not having talent, etc...

But, you guys do realize that UT is probably one of the 30 most talented teams in the country right?

Go check the recruiting classes from 2006 to now. Pretty good talent in those classes except for 2008. The problem was development, not lack of talent.

That and a whole bunch of transfers.

So the fact that the 2008 class was mediocre, and most of the 2007 class is gone now, or underachieved = a gap in recruiting. Not really a lack of talent, more like a lack of players.

Seriously, look at VT's recruiting. Since 2006, they have 18 4* and 1 5* player on the roster.

In that same time, UT had 8 5* and 26 4* players. So, on paper, UT is much more talented than VT. All the transfers out, and some shoddy OL recruiting are the only things keeping UT from succeeding right now.
Click to expand...

Fulmer's problems the last few years were evaluating and developing talent. That "great" 2007 class we signed turned out to have about 12 busts. Add in the below average 2006 and 2008 classes along with all the transfers and quitters, and you get these results!
 
#3
#3
AFL2008 said:
I see a lot of threads on this site where people talk about Fulmer leaving the cupboard bare, and UT not having talent, etc...

But, you guys do realize that UT is probably one of the 30 most talented teams in the country right?

Go check the recruiting classes from 2006 to now. Pretty good talent in those classes except for 2008. The problem was development, not lack of talent.

That and a whole bunch of transfers.

So the fact that the 2008 class was mediocre, and most of the 2007 class is gone now, or underachieved = a gap in recruiting. Not really a lack of talent, more like a lack of players.

Seriously, look at VT's recruiting. Since 2006, they have 18 4* and 1 5* player on the roster.

In that same time, UT had 8 5* and 26 4* players. So, on paper, UT is much more talented than VT. All the transfers out, and some shoddy OL recruiting are the only things keeping UT from succeeding right now.
Click to expand...

Most of those guys from the 2006-2008 classes didn't suit up this season. Couple that with the lack of development and you have to see why there is a talent "myth".

The only 4 or 5 star contributers from that 2007 class is Eric Berry, Chris Walker, and Ben Martin. The rest flamed out and others were never highly thought of anyway. Of course the 2008 class was horrible and most of the 2006 class is no longer here.

Outside the 3 I already mentioned, we were left with a bunch of freshmen and walkons to contribute. A lot of the higher rated guys coming out of high school didn't buy into Kiffin's way of things so they were booted off the team (e.g. Brandon Warren, EJ Abrams-Ward, Lennon Creer, Darris Sawtelle, Ahmad Paige, Brent Vinson), all 5 star guys by some recruiting analysts coming out of high school that we definitely NEEDED to contribute this year.

So no, we didn't have top 30 talent PLAYING this year. We had 5 walkons start in key positions this year. Add that with injuries to our 2 deep at middle linebacker (which by the way we started a walkon at already) and we have a team with a lack of talent depth to compete.
 
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#4
#4
KoachKrab127 said:
Fulmer's problems the last few years were evaluating and developing talent. That "great" 2007 class we signed turned out to have about 12 busts. Add in the below average 2006 and 2008 classes along with all the transfers and quitters, and you get these results!
Click to expand...

Fulmer beat out some great coaches and recruiters for most of those players. The problem was development and guidance once they got to campus.

But UT was always talented.

The only place where I feel UT has failed in recruiting recently is at DT and on the OL.
 
#5
#5
The reason people blame Fulmer is because he might have brought in high numbers of 4/5* players but a lot of them were never pushed or played to their potential. Reason to blame fulmer. He had zero discipline, terrible work ethic, and was a players coach.

Yes we have athletes. But they have terrible work ethic. Look at GJ. He is already mouthing off at Kippy. Why??? Because fulmer allowed that type of disdain for athority.

Kiffin has a new plan for UT and that's that. I am sick of all these threads but starting a new one doesn't help.

Final point: Fulmer left the team bare due to his lack of discipline and attitude. He brought in 4/5*'s but coached them to 2/3* talent.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#6
#6
AFL2008 said:
I see a lot of threads on this site where people talk about Fulmer leaving the cupboard bare, and UT not having talent, etc...

But, you guys do realize that UT is probably one of the 30 most talented teams in the country right?

Go check the recruiting classes from 2006 to now. Pretty good talent in those classes except for 2008. The problem was development, not lack of talent.

That and a whole bunch of transfers.

So the fact that the 2008 class was mediocre, and most of the 2007 class is gone now, or underachieved = a gap in recruiting. Not really a lack of talent, more like a lack of players.

Seriously, look at VT's recruiting. Since 2006, they have 18 4* and 1 5* player on the roster.

In that same time, UT had 8 5* and 26 4* players. So, on paper, UT is much more talented than VT. All the transfers out, and some shoddy OL recruiting are the only things keeping UT from succeeding right now.
Click to expand...
Which equals the cupboard being bare.

Tennessee did not start the season with SEC caliber athletes at quarterback, linebacker, or on the offensive line. Fortunately the coaches developed a quarterback during the year. Hopefully good recruiting and a year of conditioning will fill more gaps in the future.

If "on paper" was the only thing that mattered there would be no need to play the games and Alabama could just make up their national titles on NSD.
 
#7
#7
getyopopcornready said:
Most of those guys from the 2006-2008 classes didn't suit up this season. Couple that with the lack of development and you have to see why there is a talent "myth".

The only 4 or 5 star contributers from that 2007 class is Eric Berry, Chris Walker, and Ben Martin. The rest flamed out and others were never highly thought of anyway. Of course the 2008 class was horrible and most of the 2006 class is no longer here.

Outside the 3 I already mentioned, we were left with a bunch of freshmen and walkons to contribute. A lot of the higher rated guys coming out of high school didn't buy into Kiffin's way of things so they were booted off the team (e.g. Brandon Warren, EJ Abrams-Ward, Lennon Creer, Darris Sawtelle, Ahmad Paige, Brent Vinson), all 5 star guys by some recruiting analysts coming out of high school that we definitely NEEDED to contribute this year.

So no, we didn't have top 30 talent PLAYING this year. We had 5 walkons start in key positions this year.
Click to expand...

Rico McCoy, Eric Berry, Dennis Rogan, Janzen Jackson, Montario Hardesty, Jonathan Crompton, Luke Stocker, Gerald Jones, Denarius Moore, Marsalis Teague, Ben Martin, Chris Walker, Jacques McClendon, Dan Williams.

These were talented players. You look at the whole team and the only place where UT was really hurting was on the OL and depth at DT.

Most teams would be in trouble playing a 3rd team MLB.
 
#8
#8
YES.... I agree with everyone on this thread... so can't we just all get along? LOL
 
#9
#9
I don't want to start a semantic argument about it, all i wanted to say is that I think UT has never had a problem finding talented athletes, the problem has been coaching them up to play at a DIV-1/SEC level.

Watching the VT game, I didn't sit there and think, wow, VT is just a much more talented team than UT, I just thought they were better coached (from a continuity stand point, I'm not taking a shot at Kiffin here)

The only place where UT looked overmatched was on the OL.
 
#10
#10
AFL2008 said:
I don't want to start a semantic argument about it, all i wanted to say is that I think UT has never had a problem finding talented athletes, the problem has been coaching them up to play at a DIV-1/SEC level.

Watching the VT game, I didn't sit there and think, wow, VT is just a much more talented team than UT, I just thought they were better coached (from a continuity stand point, I'm not taking a shot at Kiffin here)

The only place where UT looked overmatched was on the OL.
Click to expand...

Welcome CLK and his cadre of NFL coaches. Problem solved. Happy days are here again!

I think I'll go do something besides play on the computer for a while.
 
#11
#11
AFL2008 said:
Rico McCoy, Eric Berry, Dennis Rogan, Janzen Jackson, Montario Hardesty, Jonathan Crompton, Luke Stocker, Gerald Jones, Denarius Moore, Marsalis Teague, Ben Martin, Chris Walker, Jacques McClendon, Dan Williams.

These were talented players. You look at the whole team and the only place where UT was really hurting was on the OL and depth at DT.

Most teams would be in trouble playing a 3rd team MLB.
Click to expand...

I think it's well known that DB, RB and DE were our strengths this year. McCoy's a good player, but where's our other help at LB? Did you happen to watch Denarius Moore the last 3 years? That guy drops more crucial passes than any other WR in the country. He's talented, but there's about 30 receivers in the SEC I would take before him.

If you don't already know, OL and DL is where the game is won. How do you think AL beat both of our teams this season? If not for our OL weakness and AL DL strength, we beat them.

So, what does that tell you that we started a 3rd string MLB for most part of the season and still managed to compete every game except for 2 quarters this season? (4th quarters of Ole Miss and Va Tech)
 
#12
#12
AFL2008 said:
Rico McCoy, Eric Berry, Dennis Rogan, Janzen Jackson, Montario Hardesty, Jonathan Crompton, Luke Stocker, Gerald Jones, Denarius Moore, Marsalis Teague, Ben Martin, Chris Walker, Jacques McClendon, Dan Williams.

These were talented players. You look at the whole team and the only place where UT was really hurting was on the OL and depth at DT.

Most teams would be in trouble playing a 3rd team MLB.
Click to expand...

Jackson and Teague were Kiffin recruits, so they have no effect on the "cupboard was bare" argument.

Hardesty (had fewer total yards in 08 than Creer) and Moore (was the 7th receiver in catches in 08) had trouble getting on the field to make plays until the new staff arrived.

Ben Martin (former 5*) and Chris Walker (former 3*) would not have been nearly the force they are now without Coach O on the staff.

Crompton did turn into a decently good QB under the new staff, but at the start of the season he was still a headcase. No depth behind him to help challenge him either.

It should be noted that every team has some talented players. USCe, Vandy and Kentucky even register some All-SEC guys in certain seasons. The true measure of talent (and by extension recruiting) is depth. UT had quality depth in exactly two areas at the start of the season: DB and RB (and the RB depth can be partially attributed to Kiffin getting Brown and Oku to sign with the team). The depth at QB, OL, and WR were terrible (the depth at TE and FB is debatable). The depth at DL and LB was also pathetic.
 
#14
#14
AFL2008 said:
Rico McCoy, Eric Berry, Dennis Rogan, Janzen Jackson, Montario Hardesty, Jonathan Crompton, Luke Stocker, Gerald Jones, Denarius Moore, Marsalis Teague, Ben Martin, Chris Walker, Jacques McClendon, Dan Williams.

These were talented players. You look at the whole team and the only place where UT was really hurting was on the OL and depth at DT.

Most teams would be in trouble playing a 3rd team MLB.
Click to expand...

:eek:lol::eek:lol::eek:lol::eek:lol::eek:lol::eek:lol:


Shut the hell up.
 
#15
#15
AFL2008 said:
Fulmer beat out some great coaches and recruiters for most of those players. The problem was development and guidance once they got to campus.

But UT was always talented.

The only place where I feel UT has failed in recruiting recently is at DT and on the OL.
Click to expand...

This is an obvious truth and probably the most damaging positions in which to fail....it all starts up front.
 
#16
#16
getyopopcornready said:
I think it's well known that DB, RB and DE were our strengths this year. McCoy's a good player, but where's our other help at LB? Did you happen to watch Denarius Moore the last 3 years? That guy drops more crucial passes than any other WR in the country. He's talented, but there's about 30 receivers in the SEC I would take before him.

If you don't already know, OL and DL is where the game is won. How do you think AL beat both of our teams this season? If not for our OL weakness and AL DL strength, we beat them.

So, what does that tell you that we started a 3rd string MLB for most part of the season and still managed to compete every game except for 2 quarters this season? (4th quarters of Ole Miss and Va Tech)
Click to expand...

I don't think Florida lost because of a talent disparity. I think they lost because they were thoroughly outplayed and out-coached. It happens.
 
#17
#17
If you're using recruiting rankings to make your point than you're falling into the same trap as Fulmer. Recruiting rankings don't mean a thing once the whistle blows and much of our 4 and 5 star recruits have either been total busts or not yet played to potential. We got manhandled by a V Tech team that was several spots lower than us on average recruiting rankings the past 5 years. Apparently our former staff's ability to evaluate talent and needs of the team were nil.

The only myth is the myth that we don't have a talent gap. We lack talent, experience and depth on both lines, we lack explosive, difference making skill players, our LB is a total mess.

Our roster is a mess and won't get totally solved by last year or this year's recruiting classes. It will take at least one or two more top classes after this year with player development and game experience to get us back to competitive with the top of the conference...that would be 2012 by my calculations.
 
#18
#18
how many scholarship players did we lose last year? over 20? that's alot of lost depth when your talking about matching up against the bamers and gators of the ncaa.
 
#19
#19
Yeah. So there is a gap, a lack of players, like I said. But most of the players on the roster are still SEC caliber players.

I will admit, that UT, at this point in time, lacks the highest tier of athlete that the best teams in the SEC have like Alabama and Florida. LSU also has those amazing athletes, but they are just brutally wasted by Les Miles.
 
#20
#20
AFL2008 said:
I don't think Florida lost because of a talent disparity. I think they lost because they were thoroughly outplayed and out-coached. It happens.
Click to expand...

I never said Fla had a lack of talent on the line. I just said that is where the game was won against Fla and UT for Bama. We were able to have great success running the ball against you so that should definitely tell you that someting is wrong with your D-line. Whether it's coaching or lack of talent.
 
#21
#21
AFL2008 said:
Yeah. So there is a gap, a lack of players, like I said. But most of the players on the roster are still SEC caliber players.

I will admit, that UT, at this point in time, lacks the highest tier of athlete that the best teams in the SEC have like Alabama and Florida. LSU also has those amazing athletes, but they are just brutally wasted by Les Miles.
Click to expand...

Hence the reason why we still finished 2nd in the SEC east. Once we get the top tier talent in, which is what we are starting to do, we will be more competitive over the course of the season in the SEC and against teams with top tier talent on both lines of play.

I know it seems like we shouldn't say that we have a bunch of criples out there, but... we kinda do. Cody Sullins and Cory Sullins are not SEC caliber players. And they were playing right in the meat of our O-line, with no one to back them up. We were ridiculously thin on both sides of the line but still managed to handle more talented teams on the line.
 
#22
#22
AFL2008 said:
I see a lot of threads on this site where people talk about Fulmer leaving the cupboard bare, and UT not having talent, etc...

But, you guys do realize that UT is probably one of the 30 most talented teams in the country right?

Go check the recruiting classes from 2006 to now. Pretty good talent in those classes except for 2008. The problem was development, not lack of talent.

That and a whole bunch of transfers.

So the fact that the 2008 class was mediocre, and most of the 2007 class is gone now, or underachieved = a gap in recruiting. Not really a lack of talent, more like a lack of players.

Seriously, look at VT's recruiting. Since 2006, they have 18 4* and 1 5* player on the roster.

In that same time, UT had 8 5* and 26 4* players. So, on paper, UT is much more talented than VT. All the transfers out, and some shoddy OL recruiting are the only things keeping UT from succeeding right now.
Click to expand...

The lack of talent isn't a myth, it's a fact substantiated by the number of players on the field this year who shouldn't have been or the number of freshman playing because there was no competent upperclassman in their way.

The whole premise of your post is screwy. If a kid is highly rated coming out of highschool but doesn't contribute by his third year, it doesn't matter if it was because he was overrated or not developed or hurt or a junkie or decided to do missionary circumcisions on Pacific atolls; he does not contribute to the talent level on the field. When this happens a bunch of times to the same class, or worse, to more than one class in a short period, it creates a talent void in the program, and that is where we currently are.
 
#23
#23
getyopopcornready said:
I never said Fla had a lack of talent on the line. I just said that is where the game was won against Fla and UT for Bama. We were able to have great success running the ball against you so that should definitely tell you that someting is wrong with your D-line. Whether it's coaching or lack of talent.
Click to expand...

UT ran for 117 yards on 32 carries. Not exactly blowing UF away or anything, especially since UT averaged 157 rushing yards per game throughout the season.
 
#24
#24
AFL2008 said:
UT ran for 117 yards on 32 carries. Not exactly blowing UF away or anything, especially since UT averaged 157 rushing yards per game throughout the season.
Click to expand...

Pretty good for an O-line with 2 walkons and 1 freshman against an All-World talented D-line. I'm not sure if there was a lack of motivation by the D-line against most of the teams we played or not, but we had success running the ball this year against more talented teams and I can't wait to see Bryce Brown running behind a more talented and experienced O-line in 2011.
 
#25
#25
AFL2008 said:
I don't want to start a semantic argument about it, all i wanted to say is that I think UT has never had a problem finding talented athletes, the problem has been coaching them up to play at a DIV-1/SEC level.

Watching the VT game, I didn't sit there and think, wow, VT is just a much more talented team than UT, I just thought they were better coached (from a continuity stand point, I'm not taking a shot at Kiffin here)

The only place where UT looked overmatched was on the OL.
Click to expand...

5 net rushing yards isn't to be blamed on coaching champ. That's a clear MISMATCH of talent. Say what you want.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
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