Teams 120 v 121 comparison by position group

#1
H

HeyHeyUT

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#1
Below is a comparison by position group. The only group I would entertain may be wrong is WR (which I grouped with TE to tip the scale). However, if i am a coach about to return 6 out of my top 7 receivers, then I would be more excited about 121)

120- QB, DE, C, RB, PR

121- DT, LB, DB, S, OT, OG, KR, WR/TE, Punter, Kicker.

121 Replacements for downgrades

QB: #1 DT QB (1 yr in system) or #11 Pro QB (2 yr in system)
RB: Last years LEADING RUSHER and Team emotional Leader.
DE: Two former 5 stars in Kongbo and Phillips (same people calling Phillips a bust were the idiots calling Malone a bust this time last year...)
C: Coleman Thomas who has to have over 20 starts.
PR: Biggest drop off. I don't care how many Atheletes (byrd, callaway) we have... either you got it, or you don't... and a healthy Sutton and kamara "HAD IT".

Day 1 121 team is just as good or better than Day 1 120. If 121 stays healthy then it will be better than 120 by Florida when we were down DKJ, Sutton, JRM (I know he played a few plays on 1 Shoulder). I do think Hall was back on this game but wasn't Thomas also playing on a bad ankle? Compared to the team that played Alabama and SC... night and day difference.

What you see above is the reason why you an analyst put 121 ranked in a top 10 talent index (for everyone who didn't actually read the methodology: THE MATRIX TAKES ATTRITION INTO ACCOUNT). Expect the same for Phil Steeles rankings, btw.

The real problem with 121 isn't Barnett or Malone leaving. DL and WR will be just as good next year... The problem is no one knows if our QBs will pan out... should be fun to watch that battle.

For SEC East perspective-

UF (who we beat right after losing our 3 best defensive players) sends 8 defensive players to the draft (6 are sure bets and 2 are late rounder questions). So I wouldn't take take their roster over UTs

UGA (who we beat with 7 starters out after Hurd and others tried to give game away in First half), does return a lot... and if their online ever figures out how to block then you could make an arguement for taking their roster.

Next years schedule is brutal with Bama and LSU, but we got a good squad going in with a chip on its shoulder (and a new DB coach thank goodness). Go Vols!
 
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#3
#3
New DB coach is going to be huge. Especially if he has a full healthy roster. He's probably a better fit for Shoop's system as well so hopefully thing translate to on the field.
 
#4
#4
Good insight. We also have some other red shirts and others who can step up. I am with you that the D will be back to good standard and pivotal position of the team will be if ONE of qbs can exceed expectations. If so, we are in good shape. If no, could be a tough season.
 
#6
#6
Still trying to reconcile how team 121 suddenly leap-frogged team 120 in terms of being CBJ's most talented team ever, when Dobbs, Hurd, Kamara, Barnett, Vereen, Reeves-Maybin, and Sutton are not returning.

Also, still waiting on the link to this "matrix" that's supposed to make everything crystal clear.
 
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#9
#9
BeardedVol said:
Still trying to reconcile how team 121 suddenly leap-frogged team 120 in terms of being CBJ's most talented team ever, when Dobbs, Hurd, Kamara, Barnett, Vereen, Reeves-Maybin, and Sutton are not returning.

Also, still waiting on the link to this "matrix" that's supposed to make everything crystal clear.
Click to expand...

Will send when back to computer. Will also send their coaching and coordinator methodology and insect that will really piss you off I'm sure since it give Butch a high grade as a head coach.

Also- since you are so confused abut how 121 is as good as 120 on day 1... then why don you argue one of the many position groups that we are making upgrades on? Too hard? The only acceptable arguement is that QB is such an important position that it will negatively affect all offensive position groups.

As for the terrible: "but but but we lost 6 talented players (2 of which didn't play most the season and played injured when they did)" arguement - EVERY team that recruits an average top 15 team for 4 years in a row will lose sr and Jrs to the pros on a yearly basis. So hopefully this is our new reality. Only illogical people Translate it to means a 6-6 season despite tons of returnees and talent upgrades on the majority of our position groups.
 
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#11
#11
QB⬇️
RB⬇️
WR⬇️
OL⬆️
TE⬆️
DE⬇️
LB⬆️
CB⬆️

HC↔️
OC⬇️ We have to assume there's going to be some growing pains here but I won't be terrible
RB↔️
OL↔️
TE⬆️
DL↔️ Assuming Hoke doesent show and it stays the same if he shows ⬆️
LB↔️
CB⬆️ This is like 99% here
ST⬆️

We are better in areas but we hurt a lot in some tuff spots

Just my opinion GBO!
 
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#12
#12
minimum wins at 8, no less...that's my story and I'm sticking to it...screw the matrix Neo...:)

GO VOLS!
 
#14
#14
HeyHeyUT said:
Will send when back to computer. Will also send their coaching and coordinator methodology and insect that will really piss you off I'm sure since it give Butch a high grade as a head coach.

Also- since you are so confused abut how 121 is as good as 120 on day 1... then why don you argue one of the many position groups that we are making upgrades on? Too hard? The only acceptable arguement is that QB is such an important position that it will negatively affect all offensive position groups.

As for the terrible: "but but but we lost 6 talented players (2 of which didn't play most the season and played injured when they did)" arguement - EVERY team that recruits an average top 15 team for 4 years in a row will lose sr and Jrs to the pros on a yearly basis. So hopefully this is our new reality. Only illogical people Translate it to means a 6-6 season despite tons of returnees and talent upgrades on the majority of our position groups.
Click to expand...

Jesus man...calm thy self. I have no idea what you are trying to say in that first paragraph, so I'm going to skip it.

As for the second paragraph, if you don't see any room for argument on any offensive position other than QB, while I think you are wrong, there's no point in my trying to explain why, if you've already made up your mind that I'm wrong

Lastly your thread is titled team 120 vs 121 by position group, it's a pretty valid question to ask how team 120 which is considered to be the most talented team Jones has ever fielded in his career, is suddenly eclipsed by team 121, after losing so many players to attrition, and replacing most of them with less talented/less experienced players.
 
#15
#15
njvols said:
Not to be corny on butch quote but if he is right about 5 star hearts will be better than 7-5. If it was a cya quote and he is wrong then this is about right.
Click to expand...

Pardon me but how does 5 star heart get anything?
 
#16
#16
Dudleys87 said:
QB⬇️
RB⬇️
WR⬇️
OL⬆️
TE⬆️
DE⬇️
LB⬆️
CB⬆️

HC↔️
OC⬇️ We have to assume there's going to be some growing pains here but I won't be terrible
RB↔️
OL↔️
TE⬆️
DL↔️ Assuming Hoke doesent show and it stays the same if he shows ⬆️
LB↔️
CB⬆️ This is like 99% here
ST⬆️

We are better in areas but we hurt a lot in some tuff spots

Just my opinion GBO!
Click to expand...

This may sound strange, but for our offensive system, Kelly/Chandler >> Hurd/Kamara.

Assuming everybody stays healthy, we should upgrade at every position except QB, WR and DE given the gains from another offseason of strength and conditioning. Our linemen on both sides of the ball SHOULD be exceptional by now.
 
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#17
#17
AboveAllNations said:
This may sound strange, but for our offensive system, Kelly/Chandler >> Hurd/Kamara.

Assuming everybody stays healthy, we should upgrade at every position except QB, WR and DE given the gains from another offseason of strength and conditioning. Our linemen on both sides of the ball SHOULD be exceptional by now.
Click to expand...

Purely based on productivity there is a drop of at RB

The talent is there at DL but with the history of the injuries it's hard for me to ↔️ I absolutely hate the GT game.

I'm hoping Rock is the answer to the bug
 
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#18
#18
I don't see our QB situation as a negative, someone will emerge and succeed...of JG, QD, or SJ, one will come through, if not more than one...QB is the least of our problems...:)

GO VOLS!
 
#19
#19
Love the thread OP. Here's the way I'm looking at it, considering players losses, coaching changes, and all important maturity increases year to year. I'm assuming the worst injury ridden year in history has to improve.

I'll do mine in a + or - format. All mho of course.

Defense:
DT (++) All mature, play in the games, and overcome loss of 1 Sr.
DE (-) We'll be good here. But, when you lose those 2, you can't expect a +.
ILB (+) Starter & backup will improve
OLB (+) Maturity and talent take a major jump. Our departed stud was out a majority of 16'. TKJr too?
CB/N (+) Only + b/c of maturity, depth, and new coaching. Our NFL stud was absent significantly in 16.
S (wash) Barely. If TK moves to OLB, then we get better athletes but lose expertise

Offense:
QB (-) While in about as good a position as possible, we still lose All-SEC QB.
RB (-) Plenty of talent here, but like QB we lose 2 (1 1/2?) studs from 16' team strength
WR (+) Slight + b/c of 3 good looking FR and pperclassmen mature offsetting 1 NFL draftee
TE (-) Wolf is good but flatlined? Nobody to replace Croom.
G (+) Weisman loss is less than maturity of others and new FR, FR inside
T (++) Expecting big improvement in LT, maybe FR pushes for PT?

ST:
K (+) More practice
P (wash) Hard to see this guy getting much better = beast now.
PR (-) Another strong position, but we lose 2 studs at position
KR (+) Better depth to a proven beast.

Coaching (++): I'm going big here first b/c I'm a hopeless fan. Secondly, we've had staff improvements it appears. Third, and most impacting, is that our HC is "back to the wall" for the first time in his career. I'm believing he cuts that extracurriculars and goes full football focus in 17'.

Summary: With so many +s, even tho some may be slight, I'm looking for an improved 2017 at this point. QB will get the biggest ???, followed by DE and RB. But our staff has built great depth at those 3 positions, so hopefully those losses are mitigated. Plus, I'm hoping the taste of disappointment in 16' is a focusing tool for 17'.

Prediction: Vols 10-2 regular season. Losses to Bama & LSU. SEC Champions defeating Bama in rematch. Lose first round of playoffs as 4th seed. In December VN melts down at all the possible NCAA and NFL opportunities to take away our HoF coach and staff! No sweat. :)
 
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#20
#20
livefaith said:
Love the thread OP. Here's the way I'm looking at it, considering players losses, coaching changes, and all important maturity increases year to year. I'm assuming the worst injury ridden year in history has to improve.

I'll do mine in a + or - format. All mho of course.

Defense:
DT (++) All mature, play in the games, and overcome loss of 1 Sr.
DE (-) We'll be good here. But, when you lose those 2, you can't expect a +.
ILB (+) Starter & backup will improve
OLB (+) Maturity and talent take a major jump. Our departed stud was out a majority of 16'. TKJr too?
CB/N (+) Only + b/c of maturity, depth, and new coaching. Our NFL stud was absent significantly in 16.
S (wash) Barely. If TK moves to OLB, then we get better athletes but lose expertise

Offense:
QB (-) While in about as good a position as possible, we still lose All-SEC QB.
RB (-) Plenty of talent here, but like QB we lose 2 (1 1/2?) studs from 16' team strength
WR (+) Slight + b/c of 3 good looking FR and pperclassmen mature offsetting 1 NFL draftee
TE (-) Wolf is good but flatlined? Nobody to replace Croom.
G (+) Weisman loss is less than maturity of others and new FR, FR inside
T (++) Expecting big improvement in LT, maybe FR pushes for PT?

ST:
K (+) More practice
P (wash) Hard to see this guy getting much better = beast now.
PR (-) Another strong position, but we lose 2 studs at position
KR (+) Better depth to a proven beast.

Coaching (++): I'm going big here first b/c I'm a hopeless fan. Secondly, we've had staff improvements it appears. Third, and most impacting, is that our HC is "back to the wall" for the first time in his career. I'm believing he cuts that extracurriculars and goes full football focus in 17'.

Summary: With so many +s, even tho some may be slight, I'm looking for an improved 2017 at this point. QB will get the biggest ???, followed by DE and RB. But our staff has built great depth at those 3 positions, so hopefully those losses are mitigated. Plus, I'm hoping the taste of disappointment in 16' is a focusing tool for 17'.

Prediction: Vols 10-2 regular season. Losses to Bama & LSU. SEC Champions defeating Bama in rematch. Lose first round of playoffs as 4th seed. In December VN melts down at all the possible NCAA and NFL opportunities to take away our HoF coach and staff! No sweat. :)
Click to expand...

I know it goes without saying but I think T Smith gets early action to see if he can hold his own
 
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#21
#21
livefaith said:
Love the thread OP. Here's the way I'm looking at it, considering players losses, coaching changes, and all important maturity increases year to year. I'm assuming the worst injury ridden year in history has to improve.

I'll do mine in a + or - format. All mho of course.

Defense:
DT (++) All mature, play in the games, and overcome loss of 1 Sr.
DE (-) We'll be good here. But, when you lose those 2, you can't expect a +.
ILB (+) Starter & backup will improve
OLB (+) Maturity and talent take a major jump. Our departed stud was out a majority of 16'. TKJr too?
CB/N (+) Only + b/c of maturity, depth, and new coaching. Our NFL stud was absent significantly in 16.
S (wash) Barely. If TK moves to OLB, then we get better athletes but lose expertise

Offense:
QB (-) While in about as good a position as possible, we still lose All-SEC QB.
RB (-) Plenty of talent here, but like QB we lose 2 (1 1/2?) studs from 16' team strength
WR (+) Slight + b/c of 3 good looking FR and pperclassmen mature offsetting 1 NFL draftee
TE (-) Wolf is good but flatlined? Nobody to replace Croom.
G (+) Weisman loss is less than maturity of others and new FR, FR inside
T (++) Expecting big improvement in LT, maybe FR pushes for PT?

ST:
K (+) More practice
P (wash) Hard to see this guy getting much better = beast now.
PR (-) Another strong position, but we lose 2 studs at position
KR (+) Better depth to a proven beast.

Coaching (++): I'm going big here first b/c I'm a hopeless fan. Secondly, we've had staff improvements it appears. Third, and most impacting, is that our HC is "back to the wall" for the first time in his career. I'm believing he cuts that extracurriculars and goes full football focus in 17'.

Summary: With so many +s, even tho some may be slight, I'm looking for an improved 2017 at this point. QB will get the biggest ???, followed by DE and RB. But our staff has built great depth at those 3 positions, so hopefully those losses are mitigated. Plus, I'm hoping the taste of disappointment in 16' is a focusing tool for 17'.

Prediction: Vols 10-2 regular season. Losses to Bama & LSU. SEC Champions defeating Bama in rematch. Lose first round of playoffs as 4th seed. In December VN melts down at all the possible NCAA and NFL opportunities to take away our HoF coach and staff! No sweat. :)
Click to expand...

Good analysis. Really agree on everything except maybe having a - for TE.
 
#24
#24
HeyHeyUT said:
Will send when back to computer. Will also send their coaching and coordinator methodology and insect that will really piss you off I'm sure since it give Butch a high grade as a head coach.

Also- since you are so confused abut how 121 is as good as 120 on day 1... then why don you argue one of the many position groups that we are making upgrades on? Too hard? The only acceptable arguement is that QB is such an important position that it will negatively affect all offensive position groups.

As for the terrible: "but but but we lost 6 talented players (2 of which didn't play most the season and played injured when they did)" arguement - EVERY team that recruits an average top 15 team for 4 years in a row will lose sr and Jrs to the pros on a yearly basis. So hopefully this is our new reality. Only illogical people Translate it to means a 6-6 season despite tons of returnees and talent upgrades on the majority of our position groups.
Click to expand...

We were two plays away last year from 6-6 and we just lost our senior qb, our best RB, our #1 WR, our 2 best pass rushers, one of which was the greatest in school history, and our best cover corner. There's also a lot of uncertainty at DT given that the status of our two most talented/heralded DTs (Shy and KMac) is up in the air due to season-ending injuries.

I know you're trying to be positive, but there are legit concerns/more than a few questions for team 121.
 
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#25
#25
HeyHeyUT said:
Will send when back to computer. Will also send their coaching and coordinator methodology and insect that will really piss you off I'm sure since it give Butch a high grade as a head coach.

Also- since you are so confused abut how 121 is as good as 120 on day 1... then why don you argue one of the many position groups that we are making upgrades on? Too hard? The only acceptable arguement is that QB is such an important position that it will negatively affect all offensive position groups.

As for the terrible: "but but but we lost 6 talented players (2 of which didn't play most the season and played injured when they did)" arguement - EVERY team that recruits an average top 15 team for 4 years in a row will lose sr and Jrs to the pros on a yearly basis. So hopefully this is our new reality. Only illogical people Translate it to means a 6-6 season despite tons of returnees and talent upgrades on the majority of our position groups.
Click to expand...

Wish I could give you more likes.
 
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