Team Thread: Oklahoma City Thunder

#7,876
#7,876
BadJerry20 said:
So wouldn't the logical thing to do just sign a 1 year deal last year and see how it went? Sounds like saving face to me, especially since he didnt request a trade till KL contacted him.
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That’s what I’m thinking. I don’t believe it at all.
 
#7,881
#7,881
BadJerry20 said:
Oh he meant forcing their way out? Honestly I don't listen a word Kerr ever says, I just figured he meant small market keeping stars in general.
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No he was talking about the impact to small market team (NO) when a top player just decides he wants out and sits until they move him. It may not become a trend but could - imagine if Zion is as good as advertised and wants out in a couple of years to go play with his boy RJ in NYC.
 
#7,883
#7,883
95 Vol Alum said:
No he was talking about the impact to small market team (NO) when a top player just decides he wants out and sits until they move him. It may not become a trend but could - imagine if Zion is as good as advertised and wants out in a couple of years to go play with his boy RJ in NYC.
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I do agree that if a player is just going to sit, then they shouldn't get paid. Or if they are intentionally trying to lose/sabotage the team, the team could file a grievance to deny pay.
 
#7,884
#7,884
Dallasbowlin said:
Probably pretty important that I include the link 🤦‍♂️

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Translation: the league kept it quiet, but they wouldn't let me sign with LAL because of massive tampering, so I just re-upped with OKC so I could later force my way out with a bigger contract.
 
#7,885
#7,885
95 Vol Alum said:
No he was talking about the impact to small market team (NO) when a top player just decides he wants out and sits until they move him. It may not become a trend but could - imagine if Zion is as good as advertised and wants out in a couple of years to go play with his boy RJ in NYC.
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If we didn’t have the completely unconstitutional draft process & salary cap in place for sports this wouldn’t be a problem.
 
#7,886
#7,886
zjcvols said:
If we didn’t have the completely unconstitutional draft process & salary cap in place for sports this wouldn’t be a problem.
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Go on. The problem would be even worse for the small market guys but maybe I don’t understand your alternate reality.
 
#7,887
#7,887
95 Vol Alum said:
Go on. The problem would be even worse for the small market guys but maybe I don’t understand your alternate reality.
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The issue is with the draft and the salary cap you significantly hinder player movement. It’s ridiculous that a player can be drafted for his services. It limits free choice, which is a staple of this country.

Im 26 years old. Let’s say I graduated top of my class at Harvard as a doctor of the brain. What if hospitals got draft picks for doctors and surgeons instead of me letting me choose where I wanted to work. It’s incredibly stupid (and anti-American/capitalism when you really think about).

Now the problem with this is these guys don’t get to choose who they play with for at least five years and usually 7-8 years before they get to choose their team. And instead of the Pelicans saying “hey Anthony Davis we will give you 12 years/$500M to stay with us” they can only offer a max. Maybe he leaves anyways, but let the Pelicans be able to give him incentive
 
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#7,888
#7,888
zjcvols said:
The issue is with the draft and the salary cap you significantly hinder player movement. It’s ridiculous that a player can be drafted for his services. It limits free choice, which is a staple of this country.

Im 26 years old. Let’s say I graduated top of my class at Harvard as a doctor of the brain. What if hospitals got draft picks for doctors and surgeons instead of me letting me choose where I wanted to work. It’s incredibly stupid (and anti-American/capitalism when you really think about).

Now the problem with this is these guys don’t get to choose who they play with for at least five years and usually 7-8 years before they get to choose their team. And instead of the Pelicans saying “hey Anthony Davis we will give you 12 years/$500M to stay with us” they can only offer a max. Maybe he leaves anyways, but let the Pelicans be able to give him incentive
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Yeah, that would be absolutely awful as it would consolidate talent in the largest wealth centers. No reason for New Orleans, Memphis, Charlotte, Indiana, Milwaukee to even field teams as they can't win bidding wars with big markets that command higher ticket pricing, TV deals, etc.

The draft and cap help balance the league to make it competitive which benefits the whole product and the individual franchise valuations. It isn't anti-American either as the private entity, the NBA, must collectively bargain with the NBPA to avoid anti-trust charges under the Sherman Act. It was within that bargaining that the salary cap and free agency terms were established. The free choice options available to players are Europe, China, Israel, etc. if they don't like the terms and conditions agreed to by the NBA and NBPA.

I'm not sure your surgeon comparison will hold water either over the long haul as health care mandates from the government continue to take root.
 
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#7,889
#7,889
95 Vol Alum said:
No he was talking about the impact to small market team (NO) when a top player just decides he wants out and sits until they move him. It may not become a trend but could - imagine if Zion is as good as advertised and wants out in a couple of years to go play with his boy RJ in NYC.
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I mean I really wouldn't care TBH.
 
#7,894
#7,894
zjcvols said:
The issue is with the draft and the salary cap you significantly hinder player movement. It’s ridiculous that a player can be drafted for his services. It limits free choice, which is a staple of this country.

Im 26 years old. Let’s say I graduated top of my class at Harvard as a doctor of the brain. What if hospitals got draft picks for doctors and surgeons instead of me letting me choose where I wanted to work. It’s incredibly stupid (and anti-American/capitalism when you really think about).

Now the problem with this is these guys don’t get to choose who they play with for at least five years and usually 7-8 years before they get to choose their team. And instead of the Pelicans saying “hey Anthony Davis we will give you 12 years/$500M to stay with us” they can only offer a max. Maybe he leaves anyways, but let the Pelicans be able to give him incentive
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I rustled some jimmies a couple years back over in the politics forum when I suggested American sports are socialist and European sports are capitalist. Last place? Let's reward you with a high draft pick. Can't fill your stadium? Here's some revenue-sharing. If you're last in the EPL, you get demoted to the minor leagues.

It's not necessarily better in Europe, and it's not really possible for us to do everything that they do, but it does put things in perspective.
 
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#7,895
#7,895
95 Vol Alum said:
Yeah, that would be absolutely awful as it would consolidate talent in the largest wealth centers. No reason for New Orleans, Memphis, Charlotte, Indiana, Milwaukee to even field teams as they can't win bidding wars with big markets that command higher ticket pricing, TV deals, etc.

The draft and cap help balance the league to make it competitive which benefits the whole product and the individual franchise valuations. It isn't anti-American either as the private entity, the NBA, must collectively bargain with the NBPA to avoid anti-trust charges under the Sherman Act. It was within that bargaining that the salary cap and free agency terms were established. The free choice options available to players are Europe, China, Israel, etc. if they don't like the terms and conditions agreed to by the NBA and NBPA.

I'm not sure your surgeon comparison will hold water either over the long haul as health care mandates from the government continue to take root.
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Is there a reason for them to field teams under the current system? They've got one NBA title between them, and 0 since I've been alive. How much would change for them if we drastically loosened cap rules?

I think you have a lot of good points, but I also think it's important to consider that the Knicks are the highest valued franchise in the NBA, they have the most die hard fans, and their franchise is not able to convert that into winning under the current rules. New York is the biggest market and it's doing much more than it's share to float the entire NBA, but they have to live the same salary cap reality as Milwaukee? Is that fair? I don't think that it is.

I like a rule that the MLS has/had: you get one player whose salary doesn't count against the cap and you can pay him whatever you want.
 
#7,897
#7,897
n_huffhines said:
Is there a reason for them to field teams under the current system? They've got one NBA title between them, and 0 since I've been alive. How much would change for them if we drastically loosened cap rules?

I think you have a lot of good points, but I also think it's important to consider that the Knicks are the highest valued franchise in the NBA, they have the most die hard fans, and their franchise is not able to convert that into winning under the current rules. New York is the biggest market and it's doing much more than it's share to float the entire NBA, but they have to live the same salary cap reality as Milwaukee? Is that fair? I don't think that it is.

I like a rule that the MLS has/had: you get one player whose salary doesn't count against the cap and you can pay him whatever you want.
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Well, I said make it worse for small market teams. It’s hard enough as it is with tampering and player collusion. No matter what set of rules exist, bad management can screw it up. But the Lakers are poorly run and now hold two of the top 10 players in the league.

I absolutely believe keeping Milwaukee around with a salary cap benefits the Knicks. I guess you could go with a 15-20 team league and fold the rest, but somehow those franchising fees get the big market ownership all hot and bothered. So much, they want to expand some more.
 
#7,898
#7,898
95 Vol Alum said:
Well, I said make it worse for small market teams. It’s hard enough as it is with tampering and player collusion. No matter what set of rules exist, bad management can screw it up. But the Lakers are poorly run and now hold two of the top 10 players in the league.

I absolutely believe keeping Milwaukee around with a salary cap benefits the Knicks. I guess you could go with a 15-20 team league and fold the rest, but somehow those franchising fees get the big market ownership all hot and bothered. So much, they want to expand some more.
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I don't think they would fold. Not only do many of these small market teams have 0 titles, some don't even have any real success. Hornets have a 30 year history and only five 45-win seasons. Kings just five in 34 years in Sacramento. T-wolves with six in 31 years. Bucks only have three in the last 25 years. The Magic have just six in 25.

The small markets would continue to survive poor results under a different salary cap system.
 
#7,899
#7,899
95 Vol Alum said:
Well, I said make it worse for small market teams. It’s hard enough as it is with tampering and player collusion. No matter what set of rules exist, bad management can screw it up. But the Lakers are poorly run and now hold two of the top 10 players in the league.

I absolutely believe keeping Milwaukee around with a salary cap benefits the Knicks. I guess you could go with a 15-20 team league and fold the rest, but somehow those franchising fees get the big market ownership all hot and bothered. So much, they want to expand some more.
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How about when Harrison Barnes basically got traded mid game? Is it all right for teams to trade a player while they still have years remaining on their contract. The team didn't honor their side. (Yes I'm taking the extreme on this).
 
#7,900
#7,900
n_huffhines said:
I don't think they would fold. Not only do many of these small market teams have 0 titles, some don't even have any real success. Hornets have a 30 year history and only five 45-win seasons. Kings just five in 34 years in Sacramento. T-wolves with six in 31 years. Bucks only have three in the last 25 years. The Magic have just six in 25.

The small markets would continue to survive poor results under a different salary cap system.
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You are right, they wouldn't fold, but they don't necessarily survive either. They will pack up and move to another city who can offer new hope and a new arena or extort their existing city for better facilities to sell more hope.

Unfettered salaries wouldn't move opportunity towards them was my point to Z. It would just move things further away.
 
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