Team talent

[VOLINVONORE]

I think this article makes a good point...

https://atozsports.com/nashville/volunteers/vols-tennessee-insider-sec-big-change-ncaa-football-program-rumors/

Tennessee has a lot of assistants who have a lot of experience in the game of football. The AD and Head Coach are the ones who make the final decisions. A GM would throw decision making in to turmoil. Get the players and we win the games. A GM would undermind and hamper the coaches decision making.

 

[LouderVol]

I dont expect us to be top 3, but there is no reason for us not to be consistently top 10. 17th says to me that our staff is not relentless enough as recruiters. Either that or our NIL is nowhere near what it should be. Regardless, 17th is an "L" for our program!

17th is also a bit of a misnomer. we are far more talented than we have been. even the score associated with that 17th ranking shows it. our score of 858pts, is higher than Butch's 12 ranked classes. Our current score would have had us ranked #8 back in 2015-2018, and in the top 10 until 2020

there is just more talent accumulated at the top than there was before. the portal lets the top schools go shopping while pushing out the misses.

the average talent on this team has gone up incredibly.

 

[volbound1700]

To answer the OP, we have upgraded the talent across the team with Heupel.

Are we at the level of a Georgia, Texas, Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama? No. We still tend to lag behind even LSU.

Heupel and Company tend to be "on the radar" for most of these type recruits but are striking out a lot. Then again, everyone but one team tends to strike out.

One that is a great example of this is Carnell Tate at Ohio State.

I am a little more weary on Transfer Portal as a lot of these players could not start at their existing team. They typically get evaluated based on their recruiting stars but a lot of them are players that did not live up to their star rating.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

17th is also a bit of a misnomer. we are far more talented than we have been. even the score associated with that 17th ranking shows it. our score of 858pts, is higher than Butch's 12 ranked classes. Our current score would have had us ranked #8 back in 2015-2018, and in the top 10 until 2020

there is just more talent accumulated at the top than there was before. the portal lets the top schools go shopping while pushing out the misses.

the average talent on this team has gone up incredibly.

I guess I'm just at a point where saying "well at least we're better than we were under Jones and Pruitt" is no longer a consolation to me. It's going on 5 years now under Huepel. He needs to start being judged against his own performances, not against previous failing coaches. That was a low bar and Huepel has raised it. Now its a question of, what is he doing to raise it higher? Because right now it seems like the program's trajectory has stalled, and I believe it's due to a lack of impact in recruiting. We cant be content with simply having our "hat on the table" anymore. Am I being unfair? I don't think so. I think it's right to have higher expectations from our staff.

 

[volbound1700]

I guess I'm just at a point where saying "well at least we're better than we were under Jones and Pruitt" is no longer a consolation to me. It's going on 5 years now under Huepel. He needs to start being judged against his own performances, not against previous failing coaches. That was a low bar and Huepel has raised it. Now its a question of, what is he doing to raise it higher? Because right now it seems like the program's trajectory has stalled, and I believe it's due to a lack of impact in recruiting. We cant be content with simply having our "hat on the table" anymore.

I think we are doing alright. I do think Heupel needs to work on the annual road chokes but other than that, we are in a good spot.

By annual road chokes, I mean the following:

2022 South Carolina
2023 Florida (and possibly Missouri, I just think Missouri was better that year)
2024 Arkansas

I just think we need to be patient and let Heupel build his system. The stability alone is paying dividends for us. Heupel has brought us many great victories including two wins over Florida, win @ LSU, and 2 wins over Alabama. He also doesn't choke very often against bad teams.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

I think we are doing alright. I do think Heupel needs to work on the annual road chokes but other than that, we are in a good spot.

By annual road chokes, I mean the following:

2022 South Carolina
2023 Florida (and possibly Missouri, I just think Missouri was better that year)
2024 Arkansas

I just think we need to be patient and let Heupel build his system. The stability alone is paying dividends for us. Heupel has brought us many great victories including two wins over Florida, win @ LSU, and 2 wins over Alabama. He also doesn't choke very often against bad teams.

Besides the recruiting, I dont like our lack of on field discipline. We play very sloppy football on offense and commit a lot of drive-stalling penalties! And say what you will, but we lost that Arkansas game because of that stupid roughing the punter penalty! If we don't extend their drive, we win that game!

 

[volbound1700]

Besides the recruiting, I dont like our lack of on field discipline. We play very sloppy football on offense and commit a lot of drive-stalling penalties! And say what you will, but we lost that Arkansas game because of that stupid roughing the punter penalty! If we don't extend their drive, we win that game!

Interestingly, I saw a major drop-off in this when we got Heupel vs. Pruitt.

I think we tend to do that on the road but a lot of teams do that on the road. I am wondering if this was more on Nico and the 2024 team as I didn't see as many mistakes in 2021 or 2022. We did have some minor issues in 2023, I think 2023 was partially derailed by injuries. I don't think that team was good enough to win SEC or anything, but that team could have definitely won a few more games (notably Florida).

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Interestingly, I saw a major drop-off in this when we got Heupel vs. Pruitt.

I think we tend to do that on the road but a lot of teams do that on the road. I am wondering if this was more on Nico and the 2024 team as I didn't see as many mistakes in 2021 or 2022. We did have some minor issues in 2023, I think 2023 was partially derailed by injuries. I don't think that team was good enough to win SEC or anything, but that team could have definitely won a few more games (notably Florida).

That's because we went fast and scored quickly. And that's the thing. Huepel doesn't want our offense putting together 10-15 play drives. The team isn't built to do that. He wants to score fast and when we cant, like in 2023 and 2024, our lack of offensive discipline gets exposed. I'm worried that the book is out on Huepel's offense and how to slow it down and either he cant adjust or we dont have the personnel to adjust.

 

[RockyTopTexas]

Absolutely not… we can’t recruit for crap besides the splash 5 star every class. Can’t develop.. haven’t in some years

 

[cgrish]

Question to everyone on the forum. Looking at this team's overall talent, do you think Huepel and his staff have significantly elevated our overall team talent above what it was under Butch Jones or Jeremy Pruitt? Now, I'm not talking about where it was after we lost all those players in the portal when Huep took the job. I'm talking about the team's talent overall under Butch and overall under Pruitt. Has our current staff recruited significantly better than the previous 2 staffs?

I don't think we have, however, Hype is a much better field coach, he is doing better with less talent imo

 

[norrislakevol]

Absolutely not… we can’t recruit for crap besides the splash 5 star every class. Can’t develop.. haven’t in some years

Two particular exceptions here: The defensive front, and RB. You could argue on some of the other positions, but those two stand out for good player development.

 

[LouderVol]

I guess I'm just at a point where saying "well at least we're better than we were under Jones and Pruitt" is no longer a consolation to me. It's going on 5 years now under Huepel. He needs to start being judged against his own performances, not against previous failing coaches. That was a low bar and Huepel has raised it. Now its a question of, what is he doing to raise it higher? Because right now it seems like the program's trajectory has stalled, and I believe it's due to a lack of impact in recruiting. We cant be content with simply having our "hat on the table" anymore. Am I being unfair? I don't think so. I think it's right to have higher expectations from our staff.

under this standard Smart would have been fired, and so would have Day, Dabo as well. long before they won a title.

each of them took more time than Heupel has had, at better programs, with more recent success, no restrictions, and yet each one had a hump to get over before winning the title. Smart had Saban. Day still has Michigan. Dabo and "Clemsoning" was very much a thing for a LONG time.

and when you say "right now" you mean in this one off season? without any football being played? after a QB left who most of this board thought was holding us back? your argument would make sense if we were stalled out at 8-4 for two years or so, with no reason to look forward. but that's not the case. We made our first playoff ever. recruiting is still getting better. '25 was our best class under Heupel, '26 is in a better spot than we were at the same point in '25 or '24.

I am thinking you are taking one position group, WR, and extrapolating that lack of apparent depth to the rest of the ENTIRE program. forgetting how we lost even more DBs after '23, and they were a strength in '24. I think at this point Heupel has proven he has earned some trust, especially if the only complaint is one bumpy offseason.

 

[RockyTopTexas]

Two particular exceptions here: The defensive front, and RB. You could argue on some of the other positions, but those two stand out for good player development.

Have we developed up front defensively or do we just have a lot of guys.. it’s been awesome to watch but how good were they individually? Pearce 1st round but Omari didn’t even get drafted. Where is tyre west development wise ? Where is Hobbs development wise ? Did Elijah Simmons ever develop of is he the same just huge kid we recruited ? It’s so hard to honestly see any development minus the few standouts.
Thats our main issue. We haven’t developed AS A TEAM in a very long time

 

[Brave Volunteer]

under this standard Smart would have been fired, and so would have Day, Dabo as well. long before they won a title.

each of them took more time than Heupel has had, at better programs, with more recent success, no restrictions, and yet each one had a hump to get over before winning the title. Smart had Saban. Day still has Michigan. Dabo and "Clemsoning" was very much a thing for a LONG time.

and when you say "right now" you mean in this one off season? without any football being played? after a QB left who most of this board thought was holding us back? your argument would make sense if we were stalled out at 8-4 for two years or so, with no reason to look forward. but that's not the case. We made our first playoff ever. recruiting is still getting better. '25 was our best class under Heupel, '26 is in a better spot than we were at the same point in '25 or '24.

I am thinking you are taking one position group, WR, and extrapolating that lack of apparent depth to the rest of the ENTIRE program. forgetting how we lost even more DBs after '23, and they were a strength in '24. I think at this point Heupel has proven he has earned some trust, especially if the only complaint is one bumpy offseason.

Georgia won the SEC in Smart's second season and came within a breath of winning it all! WTH are you talking about?

Dabo won the ACC in year 5 and a natty in year 6. Do you REALLY think we are poised to compete for a conference title this year, and a natty next year? Get real!

And for the record, I never said win championships, I said compete for championships!

 

[LouderVol]

Georgia won the SEC in Smart's second season and came within a breath of winning it all! WTH are you talking about?

Dabo won the ACC in year 5 and a natty in year 6. Do you REALLY think we are poised to compete for a conference title this year, and a natty next year? Get real!

And for the record, I never said win championships, I said compete for championships!

put us in the ACC and yeah i think we are competing for championships. even next year I would put money down it would be UT vs Clemson in their title game.

remove the NCAA penalties from the start, and put UT's program where Georgia was when Smart took over and I think Heupel has us right there too. you are comparing bulldogs and oranges, and not willing to allow for completely different situations.

we are better than we were.
we are still getting better.
improvement isn't a straight line journey.
one offseason doesn't erase 4 actual seasons. and its not like the step back this coming season is from Heupel. I don't see any coach handling the Joey Aguilar situation any better than Heupel did.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

we are better than we were.
we are still getting better.
improvement isn't a straight line journey.
one offseason doesn't erase 4 actual seasons. and its not like the step back this coming season is from Heupel. I don't see any coach handling the Joey Aguilar situation any better than Heupel did.

Glad you see it that way. I think we are stagnating. I dont see us closing the talent gap in any meaningful way with the real players in college football right now, and that's what you have to do to compete for championships.

 

[LouderVol]

Have we developed up front defensively or do we just have a lot of guys.. it’s been awesome to watch but how good were they individually? Pearce 1st round but Omari didn’t even get drafted. Where is tyre west development wise ? Where is Hobbs development wise ? Did Elijah Simmons ever develop of is he the same just huge kid we recruited ? It’s so hard to honestly see any development minus the few standouts.
Thats our main issue. We haven’t developed AS A TEAM in a very long time

no credit for Omarr in the 2nd? how spoiled are we that two guys in the first two rounds doesn't get any credit?

+DE/+DT: West has looked good, Weathersby looked good, Hobbs looked good. they turned Eason a LB into a good DT. and have built good enough depth where we don't really have any questions on starters for the coming year, or even the 2 deep. Josephs/Ross/Herring will still be bringing heat.
-LBs have struggled with injury, but now we have some key pieces back healthy, so we will wait and see here. definitely an area that needs to show improvement.
+CBs made a huge improvement last year. and it wasn't just McCoy. Gibson stepped up big, Boo looked like a good freshman out there.
=Safeties is another area of injury, and one that should take a step up with some experience back there and plenty of new bodies. but if we get 2024 play, I wouldn't think there is much need to complain.
=OL suffered in pass blocking, but dominated in run blocking. Can't just ignore the good. Supposedly Heard was injured for at least some of the year, and we brought in the #1 OT, and feel good with Satterwhite a second year player being the starting OC, which is a critical job in this offense. We also added a guy who started on a playoff team, and an all conference guy. I don't see any reason to think we are going to be markedly worse here.
-WR has been up and down. last two years have been injury prone. White was playing hurt, Bru was coming back from injury, and Thorton was up and down with injuries. you take away any teams top three and their development is in question. now we are relying on a bunch of young guys, and they definitely need to prove it. this would be the first coach I would replace imo.
+RB at this point shouldn't be a question for anyone.
+TE took a big step up. Even the guy they recruited in Ethan Davis took a step from freshman to sophomore, no reason to look back there.
-QB will probably be a step back but again Heupel didn't make that mess, Nico did. We will have to live with the results, because this should have been a position of growth but due to Nico will be a step back.

 

[RockyTopTexas]

no credit for Omarr in the 2nd? how spoiled are we that two guys in the first two rounds doesn't get any credit?

+DE/+DT: West has looked good, Weathersby looked good, Hobbs looked good. they turned Eason a LB into a good DT. and have built good enough depth where we don't really have any questions on starters for the coming year, or even the 2 deep. Josephs/Ross/Herring will still be bringing heat.
-LBs have struggled with injury, but now we have some key pieces back healthy, so we will wait and see here. definitely an area that needs to show improvement.
+CBs made a huge improvement last year. and it wasn't just McCoy. Gibson stepped up big, Boo looked like a good freshman out there.
=Safeties is another area of injury, and one that should take a step up with some experience back there and plenty of new bodies. but if we get 2024 play, I wouldn't think there is much need to complain.
=OL suffered in pass blocking, but dominated in run blocking. Can't just ignore the good. Supposedly Heard was injured for at least some of the year, and we brought in the #1 OT, and feel good with Satterwhite a second year player being the starting OC, which is a critical job in this offense. We also added a guy who started on a playoff team, and an all conference guy. I don't see any reason to think we are going to be markedly worse here.
-WR has been up and down. last two years have been injury prone. White was playing hurt, Bru was coming back from injury, and Thorton was up and down with injuries. you take away any teams top three and their development is in question. now we are relying on a bunch of young guys, and they definitely need to prove it. this would be the first coach I would replace imo.
+RB at this point shouldn't be a question for anyone.
+TE took a big step up. Even the guy they recruited in Ethan Davis took a step from freshman to sophomore, no reason to look back there.
-QB will probably be a step back but again Heupel didn't make that mess, Nico did. We will have to live with the results, because this should have been a position of growth but due to Nico will be a step back.

Not reading this

 

[LouderVol]

Not reading this

which is funny, because I am pretty much agreeing with your point. we haven't had consistent team growth.

I just took the time to actually break it down. hopefully to show people that while the entire team isn't where we want it to be, there have been improvements. so its not all doom and gloom, which is what you want it to be.

 

[NeverWe'llSever]

Nothing to do with the question but, ok.

If you just look at overall recruiting rankings, no. For as long as I’ve been a fan, we pretty much recruit top 10-15 every year, no matter what. But the development isn’t close and I’d say certain key position groups are significantly better, particularly QB and DL. I never remember landing so many highly touted QB’s and DL this consistently under Jones or Pruitt.

 

[volbound1700]

If you just look at overall recruiting rankings, no. For as long as I’ve been a fan, we pretty much recruit top 10-15 every year, no matter what. But the development isn’t close and I’d say certain key position groups are significantly better, particularly QB and DL. I never remember landing so many highly touted QB’s and DL this consistently under Jones or Pruitt.

I feel like our two weak points are offensive line and wide receiver recruiting. This has been ongoing since late Fulmer era with a few exceptions. These positions are just hard to recruit. Starwise, these positions should be performing better than they are.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

I feel like our two weak points are offensive line and wide receiver recruiting. This has been ongoing since late Fulmer era with a few exceptions. These positions are just hard to recruit. Starwise, these positions should be performing better than they are.

We've struggled with interior D-tackle recruiting as well. At least when it comes to the high profile, 5 star guys. The last time we got big name recruits out of high school, you'd probably have to go all the way back to Shy Tuttle and Reggie McKenzie Jr.

 

[D-Vols]

Ok people, Heupel is not recruiting top 10.
HOWEVER!
We are still under NCCA sanctions that reduced our scholarships each year, thus detracting from the recruiting rankings.

ITS THAT DAMN SIMPLE!

 

[LouderVol]

We've struggled with interior D-tackle recruiting as well. At least when it comes to the high profile, 5 star guys. The last time we got big name recruits out of high school, you'd probably have to go all the way back to Shy Tuttle and Reggie McKenzie Jr.

Isaiah Campbell was a 5 star on On3, with only rivals not having him as a top 35 player.
he missed the 5 star cut at 247 by 2 spots.
espn had him as the 23rd best player in the nation, but not 5 stars.

Daevin Hobbs was also a 5 star on On3.
missed the 247 cut by 4 places.
wasn't as highly ranked by ESPN or rivals which brought his averages down.

 

[volbound1700]

We've struggled with interior D-tackle recruiting as well. At least when it comes to the high profile, 5 star guys. The last time we got big name recruits out of high school, you'd probably have to go all the way back to Shy Tuttle and Reggie McKenzie Jr.

Actually Secondary has been a big problem since Fulmer era (wasn't in Fulmer era). Last year was the first time that I think Tennessee had a somewhat decent secondary.