Team 120 or bust

[bigdaddy]

I don't think you realize how far this program has fallen. We're not on the same level as UF, UGA, or LSU to most recruits.

Those are programs that have been competiting for SEC and national championships the last 10 years. While we've been competiting with Vanderbilt and Kentucky to stay out of the SEC east cellar.

If you think the Tennessee brand is on the same level as Florida, Georgia, and LSU in the mind of the average 17 year old recruit, then you're delusional.

We have to win it all THIS YEAR to raise the level of our program in the eyes of recruits.

I completely know how far we have fallen and realize it's still building. I would love to win it all bit I'm not a front runner and going to give up on my team if we don't. I'm not going to be calling for a coaching change if we don't. We have great facilities and a great place to live here. Kids will come here to play win it all or not.

 

[sjt18]

I don't think you realize how far this program has fallen. We're not on the same level as UF, UGA, or LSU to most recruits.

Those are programs that have been competiting for SEC and national championships the last 10 years. While we've been competiting with Vanderbilt and Kentucky to stay out of the SEC east cellar.

If you think the Tennessee brand is on the same level as Florida, Georgia, and LSU in the mind of the average 17 year old recruit, then you're delusional.

We have to win it all THIS YEAR to raise the level of our program in the eyes of recruits.

Stop saying "we". "WE" suffered through those 10 years while you were pulling for someone else.

There's nothing wrong with the "brand". UF had a 4 win season within the last 5 years. UT has never had one.

UGA just booted a long time coach and has bled great recruits out of their home state forever.

LSU's problems are well documented. They came very close to canning "Two Loss Les".

The real difference with these programs has been and continues to be instate recruiting. In any given year, TN is likely to produce around 10 4/5* players.

La will produce about twice that and LSU gets pretty much all of them PLUS proximity to great recruits in east Texas.

GA typically produces around 30 4/5* players with FL at 50 or more.

UT has been down but is still a great brand to sell to those who are "potential buyers". But you cannot ignore the "homer" effect that favors those other programs. If it only gives each school a significant advantage with 50% of the elite recruits in their state.... LSU starts with a solid base of 10 players. UGA has 15. UF has 20 or more....

And UT has 5.

 

[KBVol]

i don't think you realize how far tennessee's program has fallen. You guys are not on the same level as uf, uga, or lsu to most recruits.

Those are programs that have been competiting for sec and national championships the last 10 years. While you guys have been competiting with vanderbilt and kentucky to stay out of the sec east cellar.

If you think the tennessee brand is on the same level as florida, georgia, and lsu in the mind of the average 17 year old recruit, then you're delusional.

Tennessee has to win it all this year to raise the level of y'alls program in the eyes of recruits.

fyp

 

[sjt18]

Its July man, we are talking about 17 year olds. And I dont buy that players dont rank up. Hell, we have had 3 stars committed and once other teams noticed them they started recruiting them and the player went to 4 without playing a single down. It happens. We have always closed strong with CBJ so I have no reason to believe it wont happen.

Buy whatever you like.... then go check the history. It happens but not very often at all. It would be VERY unusual for one team to have two players that did.

The only way UT closes strong at this point in terms of rankings is if they drop some of these guys and pick up 4/5* players.

Very few of these kids have flown under the radar until their Sr year. It happens. Just not often AT ALL. Most are well known before their Jr seasons. Most will attend camps and get attention. Virtually all will get offers early on.

 

[chargervol]

Recruiting is the life blood of any program of course.

I'm not sure what is happening but there are a few possibilities. Feel free to add your own but here's the ones I see.... or a combination of all.

Maybe kids aren't listening to Jones any more. The new car smell is gone.... early PT is gone. Some probably fit in this group.

Some probably haven't seen the program rise fast enough to keep them from looking at other new coaches or programs that have become successful (ex- Clemson). I'm not saying this is reasonable.... but with a 17 year old kid with all kinds of people in his ear... some will believe it.

Some have now seen Jones' offense and think they know what it is. I believe Jones when he says his O is flexible with the goal of good balance. But that's not really what it has looked like. It has looked run oriented. It makes people angry but Dobbs' limitations as a passer aren't helping here. WR's want the ball and the stats. Screen passes and run blocking isn't what they have in mind. I'm frankly surprised RB's aren't clamoring to play for UT.


But there are other possibilities. Jones made his living at Cincy by finding guys he could develop. His recruiting rankings in the Big East were middling or a little under. I don't know if it will work but maybe he's settling into his "norm" where he finds players that he feels he can develop, RS's them, develops them, then has them as starters in their 4th and 5th years.


OR.... maybe he's just finding players with 4/5* talent that the recruiting services have overlooked. In terms of elite talent, this isn't likely.... but it is always possible.

I have two main things.
1. I think we do have to show the wins now. No more new car smell as you put it lol.

2. Next time you're in the recruiting forum, take a look at some of where our other highly wanted recruits are from.
Then look at where some of these other guys that came out of nowhere are from. I won't preach it as gospel, because I don't know for sure. But there might actually be more method to his madness then I gave Jones credit for.

Edit: as an example, we just offered a 4-star promising prospect at wide receiver from the same school as the QB we just took in CT

 

[volunteerfan]

Would you also say that in July being number six is ok? Would you also say that if we don't win it all this year that we will never get another top ten class again? Because that is the sentiment in this thread for some

I haven't checked to be sure but I will say I bet you can't show me a sec champ in the last 15 years that didn't recruit top ten classes year in and year out. That doesn't have anything to do with how I feel about the 2017 class because I know it's still early and I do expect it to turn around once the season starts

 

[daddyskunk]

I completely know how far we have fallen and realize it's still building. I would love to win it all bit I'm not a front runner and going to give up on my team if we don't. I'm not going to be calling for a coaching change if we don't. We have great facilities and a great place to live here. Kids will come here to play win it all or not.

From one dad to another you're schooling these kids on being a VFL

 

[CamVol8]

This is a random question... but is Justin Martin a senior? Or does he have 3 years to play? Kinda confused because he was a JUCO so I'm not sure if this is his senior or junior season.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I have two main things.
1. I think we do have to show the wins now. No more new car smell as you put it lol.

2. Next time you're in the recruiting forum, take a look at some of where our other highly wanted recruits are from.
Then look at where some of these other guys that came out of nowhere are from. I won't preach it as gospel, because I don't know for sure. But there might actually be more method to his madness then I gave Jones credit for.

Edit: as an example, we just offered a 4-star promising prospect at wide receiver from the same school as the QB we just took in CT

I was lost a a a dog on point #2, until the edit. That's sneaky.

 

[volfan102455]

I haven't checked to be sure but I will say I bet you can't show me a sec champ in the last 15 years that didn't recruit top ten classes year in and year out. That doesn't have anything to do with how I feel about the 2017 class because I know it's still early and I do expect it to turn around once the season starts

Alabama - champ in 2009, prior 4 years of recruiting 3rd, 13th, 15th and 21st.

LSU - champ in 2003, prior 3 years of recruiting 3rd, 21st, and 21st.

Auburn - champ in 2004, prior 4 years of recruiting, 16th, 16th, 7th, 15th

and a fourth one

Auburn - champ in 2010, prior 4 years 23rd, 24th, 10th and 11th

 

[volfan102455]

The interesting thing about the recruiting stats is that Tennessee was at or near the top from 2000 - 2003 yet were not able to win an SEC championship.

The only teams constant in the top were Florida and Georgia - but those states are generally loaded with talent.

 

[ToineMac]

Every year under the Butch Jones era people have complained about recruiting all summer long then we close out strong. Isn't it about time we give our guys a chance to finish before we declare this class a failure.

 

[KBVol]

This is a random question... but is Justin Martin a senior? Or does he have 3 years to play? Kinda confused because he was a JUCO so I'm not sure if this is his senior or junior season.

He's a junior.

 

[KBVol]

Every year under the Butch Jones era people have complained about recruiting all summer long then we close out strong. Isn't it about time we give our guys a chance to finish before we declare this class a failure.

Nobody was complaining two summers ago when we had Hurd, TKJr and Bates, among others, already committed by this date. We were all giddy and beside ourselves.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Nobody was complaining two summers ago when we had Hurd, TKJr and Bates, among others, already committed by this date. We were all giddy and beside ourselves.

I think it germane you used those examples. I think some said it at the time but could Butch recruit at Tennessee without the legacy classes? It's still wait and see right now and there are some concerns showing.

Butch did bring Team 120. Think about the horror and missed opportunity if Dooley had beaten Candy. Butch basically did the modern equivalent of what Johnny did at Pitt and Team 120 arrives in the right place and at the right time.

Johnny took his class of 100 to the National Championship. Butch needs to do the same with his.

 

[KBVol]

I think it germane you used those examples. I think some said it at the time but could Butch recruit at Tennessee without the legacy classes? It's still wait and see right now and there are some concerns showing.

Butch did bring Team 120. Think about the horror and missed opportunity if Dooley had beaten Candy. Butch basically did the modern equivalent of what Johnny did at Pitt and Team 120 arrives in the right place and at the right time.

Johnny took his class of 100 to the National Championship. Butch needs to do the same with his.

Just pointing out that the angst that the poster said has happened "every summer" didn't happen that summer ..... we were all ecstatic at the success that Butch had already had and at the prospects of bringing even more top guys in like Hendrix, Barnett and the Berry Twins.

 

[spacificislander]

Now I get it. Coaching doesn't matter. Just sign 5* put them on the field and they will figure out how to play with each other and overcome their egos on their own. And it doesn't matter if they fit the offensive or defensive scheme the coach is running, they are 5* they will play what they are best at and just naturally win - because after all they are the best of the best and require no coaching to win games.

Football is a TEAM sport. It takes 11 players on offense and 11 players on defense and really good special teams all aligned to the same purpose - the same goal, working together to win championships.

You can take the number 1 QB put that QB behind a really bad offensive line or pair him with receivers that can't catch the ball and guess what that number 1 QB is ineffective.

The number 1 QB wont be on a team with crappy WR and Olineman if they are at a school that recruits in the top 10 every year.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Just pointing out that the angst that the poster said has happened "every summer" didn't happen that summer ..... we were all ecstatic at the success that Butch had already had and at the prospects of bringing even more top guys in like Hendrix, Barnett and the Berry Twins.

Absolutely. My post was to VolNation as a whole more than to you personally.

Despite recruiting services ranking only 20 guys, that was a class of 40 with almost a 3.8 star rating! That is a #1 class and starts as the #5 class the next year.

That's why Team 120 is so important. Butch has major Saturday coaching issues. He's got a helluva opportunity to bring it all together.