System QBs

[BelieveTheHeup93]

There's probably some very good definition of "system quarterback" out there. But for me, I kind of just think of it this way: a system quarterback is a fella who shines in college, but then just goes on to a mediocre (or less) pro career; serviceable, at best, but no longer shiny and bright as he was at university.

It must have been the system.

And that becomes particularly valid if a series of quarterbacks go to the same university, all shine there, and then are all just adequate or worse in the NFL. I mean, think of John Parker Wilson...Greg McElroy...A.J. McCarron...Blake Sims...Jake Coker...and Blake Barnett, all at Bama, all did extremely well in Saban's system, not a single one of them made it in the NFL, I don't think. That's a system that produces "system QBs."

But here's the key point in all that: one can't tell who the "system quarterbacks" are until they go off to the NFL.

And not a single Heupel-led team has put a QB into the NFL yet. I think his two QBs at UCF are both playing college ball this year, albeit for different teams (Oklahoma and Florida State, I think).

In other words, the dude who theorized that Hendon Hooker could be benefitting as a "system quarterback" has absolutely no basis for the thought. It's just something he threw out there.

For myself, I can't imagine Hendon NOT tearing it up in the NFL. He's going to be exciting there, just like he is for us.

Really not worth wasting any more time talking about, honestly.

Go Vols!

Those guys weren’t system QBs. They were game managers that had elite talent around them and on the defensive side of the ball which allowed them to win championships. None of those guys were ever considered to be elite QBs or looked at as first round picks. System QBs are guys like Danny Wuerffel, Andre Ware, Blaine Gabbert, Case Keenum, Sam Bradford, Colt Brennan, Dennis Dixon, Marcus Mariota, Baker Mayfield, Colt McCoy, JT Barrett/Cardale Jones etc. They play in a system that helps them put up All American/Conference type numbers and even become a Heisman winner or first round pick, but once they’re out of that system they look like average QBs

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

So what if he is a system QB? He is a really good system QB. The term system QB seems weird to me. Isn’t every QB a system QB so to speak?

 

[vegasvolfan]

Read an article on A to Z Sports with anonymous quotes from other coaches about Hooker. One coach said ”…he wasn’t very good at VT, but he’s very good at TN. Makes you wonder if it’s a system thing”.

I don’t understand why people want to make that out to be a bad thing, “a system QB”. That’s what coaches are supposed to do, find ways to make their players successful. The only part of his statement that I’m concerned about is what’s in bold above; he’s very good at TN. Dont really care if it’s because of the system, how good he will be in NFL, or anything else. Just be good at UT and get this ship headed back to prominence.

Just like a crappy program to blame a QB who is excelling elsewhere vs their own program.

 

[Rememberthelate90s]

There's a long history of sure fire QBs identified in college. Neither of your examples were considered because of the "system" they ran in college.

My point chief. They would work in any system. Mahomes is not one easily identified bc he played in a system where most qbs didn't have success after they left there.

 

[ptcarter]

Maybe VTs system sucked

How many Bama QB,s have had Julio Jones type receivers? Sometimes a QB will appear to suck when, in fact, he doesn’t have the targets. Perhaps this happened @ VT.

 

[butchna]

My point chief. They would work in any system. Mahomes is not one easily identified bc he played in a system where most qbs didn't have success after they left there.

There was MORE than your TWO examples throughout recent history, is MY point…Commander. Not a particular favorite of mine is Cam Newton. Not a traditional system Gus Malzahn ran…first overall pick. One would need to take a leap of faith that he’d function in a pro set. Two that didn’t work out? Jamarcus Russell and Tim Couch before him. Combine “identified” them as viable talents. One from a traditional offense the other from that which spawned Mike Leach. You look at the arm, composure and ability to read defenses and STILL miss…traditional or system. All a crapshoot. Hooker will be judged on what scouts glean from his two year run here and how that translates and how he places at the Underwear Olympics and Pro Days.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

What's AMAZING and overlooked is Hendon Hooker transferred to play under Jeremy Pruitt/Jim Cheney in what I'll call the "JG offense." The man didn't expect to get Heupel, didn't expect to run tempo and reads, and probably didn't expect to start after seeing Milton.

Hendon Hooker never expected any of this but he's stepped up, learned quickly from Heupel, Golesh, and Halzle.

I don't give a damn if some journalist says "maybe it's the system" or not, the system Hendon Hooker ran last year was NOT the system he thought he was transferring into.

Give the man respect. Hooker has earned it.

 

[MillerTime80]

Got me curious and you're right.

2894 yards, 22 TDs, 7ints in 18 games.

I was reading about the QB situation at VT this season and they mentioned that Hooker holds the single season completion percentage record. If you want to talk system, he did not benefit from the one in Blacksburg. IMO, they did not use him well.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

There is nothing wrong with a "system quarterback" or a "gimmick offense" either. The object is to score points.

 

[VAVol85]

Got me curious and you're right.

2894 yards, 22 TDs, 7ints in 18 games.

Hendon would go cold sometimes and would make some bad decisions, but overall he was VT’s best QB at the time. Coach Fuentes never lived up to his hype of being a QB guru - just the opposite.

 

[VAVol85]

Yeah, they lock on to one guy. It's a big basis of the entire passing game. It's a variation of the run n shoot and the biggest difference between the run n shoot and the west coast is that the run n shoot gives the WR options on how he gets open instead of giving the QB the option on where the ball is going. So the QB's job is to throw the ball to grass and the WR is supposed to run to grass (no safety, grass is deep; deep corner grass is underneath, etc). I'm giving you a simplified explanation of it for sure, but run n shoot teams do not go through typical QB progressions.

Here's an article that breaks it down well and here's a screen shot from the article that summarizes the entire passing philosophy and why it can be easier on QBs

Baylor’s Vertical Passing Game

View attachment 480109

There is a thread on here “people don’t know how good hooker is” or something like that with a great video breaking down Hendons play last year. One of the cool things to watch is Hendon holding the ball and waiting for the WR to choose his options.

A lot of the thinking to choose the right receiver is done pre-snap. Then the key receiver has options post snap. Combined with the spacing to spread the defenders, the scheme really stresses the defense.

 

[Sarms58]

There's probably some very good definition of "system quarterback" out there. But for me, I kind of just think of it this way: a system quarterback is a fella who shines in college, but then just goes on to a mediocre (or less) pro career; serviceable, at best, but no longer shiny and bright as he was at university.

It must have been the system.

And that becomes particularly valid if a series of quarterbacks go to the same university, all shine there, and then are all just adequate or worse in the NFL. I mean, think of John Parker Wilson...Greg McElroy...A.J. McCarron...Blake Sims...Jake Coker...and Blake Barnett, all at Bama, all did extremely well in Saban's system, not a single one of them made it in the NFL, I don't think. That's a system that produces "system QBs."

But here's the key point in all that: one can't tell who the "system quarterbacks" are until they go off to the NFL.

And not a single Heupel-led team has put a QB into the NFL yet. I think his two QBs at UCF are both playing college ball this year, albeit for different teams (Oklahoma and Florida State, I think).

In other words, the dude who theorized that Hendon Hooker could be benefitting as a "system quarterback" has absolutely no basis for the thought. It's just something he threw out there.

For myself, I can't imagine Hendon NOT tearing it up in the NFL. He's going to be exciting there, just like he is for us.

Really not worth wasting any more time talking about, honestly.

Go Vols!

I think there are some other variables - especially for the Alabama examples you listed. One is just the overall talent disparity that Alabama had over almost all their opponents. Those Alabama quarterbacks had NFL linemen, NFL receivers and NFL running backs on their side and those teams also had defenses full of future NFL players. And the mismatches that talent disparity created magnified a second variable - the precision and accuracy required for QBs in the NFL is significantly greater than that required in college. Many college QBs have great stats because they played on teams where they could on many plays just throw the ball in the general area and the receiver would come to the ball. I live in Bama land and remember how everyone thought AJ McCArron was gonna be a great NFL QB. He was definitely a good QB and stayed on NFL rosters as a backup probably because he’s a smart guy and can be a game manager. But he had receivers that were bigger, stronger, faster, and just more talented that 90% of the DBs that had to cover them. And since Bama also had the advantage along the LOS and RB, defenses couldn’t really give their DBs extra help. Many of the “great” TD throws McCarron made at Bama were him just lofting the ball up because the receiver was 5-10 yards behind the DB; or hitting the wide open receive in the flat because the DB was givin* so much cushion. Those kind of plays are rare in the NFL.

I appreciate great college QBs and always hope ours do well at the next level. But it’s a different game on Sundays. Guys like Manning could consistently put the ball into tight coverage and put it exactly where the receiver could get it but the DB couldn’t.

 

[Vol8188]

There is a thread on here “people don’t know how good hooker is” or something like that with a great video breaking down Hendons play last year. One of the cool things to watch is Hendon holding the ball and waiting for the WR to choose his options.

A lot of the thinking to choose the right receiver is done pre-snap. Then the key receiver has options post snap. Combined with the spacing to spread the defenders, the scheme really stresses the defense.

Agree on all and I love the scheme because it maximizes talent unlike our previous scheme. But the lack of progressions could be seen as a detriment for playing at the next level

 

[Enki_Amenra]

Every offense is a system. Every coach wants their players to put up staggering numbers. Some systems work better than others.

What the anonymous coach is really saying is that Heupel's offense is better than VT's and better than his own team's offense.

 

[bigorangepoppa]

Every position on a football team is part of a system. How many times have you read where a coach gives an evaluation of a new player, when asked how much they will contribute say, once they learn the system, they'll be fine. A good/great player can fit any system, given enough practice time in the system. There are several publications that consider Hooker to be a dark horse Heisman contender. With more weapons in the receiving corp, I don't know that I would consider him as much a dark horse contender as I would a serious contender.

 

[peaygolf]

Every QB is a "system" QB. Peyton would have sucked in a triple option offense.

 

[Clayton]

I think you're missing the point of a system QB. You don't have to be a great quarterback in Heupels offense. So fast paced system designed to keep the defense off balance and out of position. Nothing terribly complicated about it. So when you think of a system quarterback that excel I have to think about is Tim Tebow. He was a Heisman Trophy winner and also won the national championship but was terrible in a pro style offense

 

[Ashevillevol]

It seems like there is a basic skill set you need to play quarterback in college. But when you get to Sundays you need all of that plus you have to be able to process information faster since everything is coming at you faster. Your throwing motion has to be very efficient because you have to get the ball out fast. Your footwork has to be spot on to get you the velocity you need to get the ball into tight windows. And you have to be super accurate to get the ball into smaller windows. Most won’t turn into great Sunday quarterbacks.
But being a good or better college quarterback is going to at least get you your shot. You will have the chance to show them your game can evolve and you can do everything you need to do you can be effective at the highest level. I think Hooker has easily played well enough to get his ticket for a chance. I bet he plays well enough this year to see his stock continue to rise. Somebody’s going to draft him. I’m sure he would say that’s all I need.

 

[1SmokinVol]

My humble opinion is that Hypel is a great teacher of QB's and hooker is benefitting. Most likely has gone from small shot at NFL to late round pick or better depending on this year. He'll definitely be better, and he was pretty damn good last year-

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I think you're missing the point of a system QB. You don't have to be a great quarterback in Heupels offense. So fast paced system designed to keep the defense off balance and out of position. Nothing terribly complicated about it. So when you think of a system quarterback that excel I have to think about is Tim Tebow. He was a Heisman Trophy winner and also won the national championship but was terrible in a pro style offense

I think you're 180 degrees off in that. I think Heupel's offense only works with a quarterback who can read and react very quickly, who can anticipate his receivers' decisions (it's easier when you're the QB and YOU have the options...it's harder when you're the QB and your receivers have the options, but you still have to anticipate them to get the ball there on time). Who can put the ball into sometimes very tight spots. Who can make all the throws (I mean, all of them, and without necessarily being given any time to load up for any of them). Who can also present a threat to run the ball from time to time, making the defense devote a spy...that often frees up another receiver. Great mind...great arm...great legs. We're describing a great QB. Great QBs needed.

People who don't really understand this offense keep getting stuck on the speed of the snap. You think the whole offense is just a gimmick that depends on catching the other guys out of position. While that does help, that's not the core of the offense. The core of the offense is just as powerful whether we minimize whistle-to-snap time or not.

Watch some of the excellent breakdown videos out there, Clayton, like that one by Matt Wyatt. Once you understand the offense, and how it's really working, I think you'll be quite a bit more impressed with Hendon Hooker. He's no system QB.

 

[SaintLouisVol]

I think his numbers definitely are inflated by the "system," but the "system" has little or nothing to do with his composure, intelligence, arm strength, accuracy and athleticism. I have no idea how his skill set will translate to the NFL, as there seems to be a LOT of good college QBs that wash out of the league, but he is a very good player at the collegiate level, and I can't wait for the season to start.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

When I went to the opening game last year I was in shock and awe at how fast the ball was being snapped. Later in the season either the team changed a little or I started seeing the game played differently.

What I was able to see later in the season was the team moved very quickly to the line of scrimmage and if the defense was not set or was in the wrong defensive scheme, the ball was snapped very quickly to take advantage of that. If the defense was not set, then Hooker slowed up read the field, checked with the coaches then ran a play.

I was very wrong in my initial read of the game in that it was all about speed. Many times they used the speed to catch the defense other times they used the speed to make the defense commit to a scheme and then tried to take advantage of whatever the defense gave them.

I am not a football nerd just a casual observer but that is how it appeared to me.

 

[Remy]

There was MORE than your TWO examples throughout recent history, is MY point…Commander. Not a particular favorite of mine is Cam Newton. Not a traditional system Gus Malzahn ran…first overall pick. One would need to take a leap of faith that he’d function in a pro set. Two that didn’t work out? Jamarcus Russell and Tim Couch before him. Combine “identified” them as viable talents. One from a traditional offense the other from that which spawned Mike Leach. You look at the arm, composure and ability to read defenses and STILL miss…traditional or system. All a crapshoot. Hooker will be judged on what scouts glean from his two year run here and how that translates and how he places at the Underwear Olympics and Pro Days.

butchna, throw in Mitch Mustang in your examples. the young QB out of high school in Arkansas that was a can't miss future NFL HoFer. His recruitment out of high school was crazy and the condition for getting him to play on scholly was his high school coach had to be hired by the university on their football staff. Houston Nutt at Arkansas successfully got young Mustang on campus and brought his high school coach along with him. Thus was how Gus Malzahn rose from the depths of high school coaching to become an NCAA NC head coach.

It also gives some insight methinks on just how successful Malzahn was at blowing smoke about Mustang's skills and riding those for his personal ambition.

 

[Vol865]

Yeah, they lock on to one guy. It's a big basis of the entire passing game. It's a variation of the run n shoot and the biggest difference between the run n shoot and the west coast is that the run n shoot gives the WR options on how he gets open instead of giving the QB the option on where the ball is going. So the QB's job is to throw the ball to grass and the WR is supposed to run to grass (no safety, grass is deep; deep corner grass is underneath, etc). I'm giving you a simplified explanation of it for sure, but run n shoot teams do not go through typical QB progressions.

Here's an article that breaks it down well and here's a screen shot from the article that summarizes the entire passing philosophy and why it can be easier on QBs

Baylor’s Vertical Passing Game

View attachment 480109

They still do half and full-field reads too. It has wrinkles of Air Raid and obviously the RPO game too.

 

[Vol8188]

They still do half and full-field reads too. It has wrinkles of Air Raid and obviously the RPO game too.

Sure to some extent they run a mix of things. Agreed, but primarily they do not have typical progressions