Sweeping Sexual Assault Suit Filed Against UT

[LittleCat]

Every time I see situations like this I can't help but think of Brian Banks and how terrible his story is. I think it is best to sit back and let the legal system play itself out.

And think of how many actual rapists probably got off free because the system...

it's all ****ed up man. Both sides of the coin.

 

[JCHateSteve]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding then.
I was thinking that the accuser had the choice of an investigation conducted by the school or filing a report with law enforcement.
If the student/victim chooses to let the university conduct the investigation, it would seem odd if the school would be responsible for adding a plaintiff/victim attorney on top of investigators.
Being that student already has the means of opting for a criminal investigation.
I mean I understand appointing defense council for the accused but I haven't heard of supplying accuser attorneys in either our legal system or at a business, university, etc...

The accuser should have legal council before deciding to seek criminal charges or not, for one. It just seems strange to have an advocate for one but not the other. You would think both would need council for a hearing, even an internal one.

It's entirely possible I'm misunderstanding the while thing too.

 

[chargervol]

The accuser should have legal council before deciding to seek criminal charges or not, for one. It just seems strange to have an advocate for one but not the other. You would think both would need council for a hearing, even an internal one.

It's entirely possible I'm misunderstanding the while thing too.

Yeah I think this is where 'opinion' for either side comes in.
I'm just saying of never heard of having to provide legal counsel to someone that may eventually be filing a lawsuit against you in the future.
Whether that's fair or unjust, is fair to debate.
But I have never heard of it so it just seems odd to be in a lawsuit as an irregularity.

Personally, I would instruct a relative of mine to focus on our justice system, not an internal led investigation.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Under title ix universities that receive federal funds have to respond to these sorts of allegations promptly and the remedies have to be adequate. I'm going to assume that the plaintiffs lawyers are going to argue that the TUAPA doesn't meet the promptness requirement because it's not as fast as what you might get with a behind closed doors administrative decision made after meeting with accuser and accused separately. Since, as the article points out, this is a new first in the nation process that UT developed in the wake of other allegations last year, I'd look at this as more of a test case initiated by the "safe place" crowd to see if they can get a federal judge to toss out anything that even remotely resembles due process for the accused in an administrative forum under Title IX. UT needs to let this go to trial and, if they lose, appeal as far as they can. This isn't about DNA Evidence of whether assaults occurred, that's for criminal courts to decide. This is about whether we're going to have a Duke lacrosse type rush to judgment following every title IX charge that is made on a university campus or will we actually take a little time to look and give the accused an opportunity to present some evidence.

Well said.

 

[livefaith]

That is not about VN since those kinds of threats would not be allowed. Other places are less strict

"Threats" no. "Character attacks" ... "refer to this thread as Exhibit A". I won't even mention the AJ/MW, Riyahd, MLane, or Yemi threads.

VN is the best of the best. But people posting in "social media" and "sports blogs" are what they are.

I'll just say there is a lot more "love" for members of the Vol FB team than members of the Lady Vols Rowing Team. :crazy:

 

[82_VOL_83]

If this is the process, it is UNFAIR. If it were so good, we'd be using it in all criminal complaints. No Administrative Judges, but real open Criminal Court Judges. I can't believe any American would support a Administrative Judge handling a criminal complaint-especially if the accused was the guy that just shot a child! The Rule of Law, should be equally applied to all Americans, those that don't feel that way, should pack their bags-I understand ISIS is hiring.:hi:

Did you actually read the post you quoted or are you just shooting from the hip?

 

[livefaith]

Personally, I don't view this as a huge deal as far as athletics go. Every player involved was immediately suspended even prior to charges being filed.

This is a case where the victims are looking for the deep pockets and the university has them. The players, whose careers were ruined, do not.

While you may be correct about the intent. I would encourage you to read the actual case posted earlier. Very interesting to say the least.

 

[82_VOL_83]

If this is true, then CBJ is/was aware that the allegations are true! I'm sure CBJ wouldn't kick a guy off the team because someone accused him of being from Mars, etc., unless, of course, there were enough proof to make him do so. If CBJ has knowledge of a rape, and his response is to kick the rapist off the team, rather than make a statement to law enforcement, he needs to get his head screwed on straight. My guess is, CBJ is so Great, he would never just kick a guy of the team, because he had very strong knowledge of a Rape, but would rather make a full report to Law Enforcement. The Athletic Dept. at UT, would never under any circumstances try to cover up a rape or two or six.

OK, you are a troll. Thanks for playing.

 

[livefaith]

As I read this suit, it appears that this is a claim for the following:

1. UT's procedures for university adjudication sexual and domestic assault against student athletes unfairly favors the (male) student athletes.

2. Accused student athletes almost always obtain legal counsel of Mr. Bosch immediately. Mr. Bosch is a member of the UT Board of Athletics.

3. Adjudication is not timely and the administrative judge is appointed by Cheek and Cheek handles all appeals.

4. Former UT Vice Chancellor Rogers repeatedly raised concern that the culture of football and basketball, including in the sports dormitory, perpetuated sexual and domestic assault and UT took no action to change it's standards.

5. The sheer number of incidents reported should have raised awareness that UT's culture and system of adjudication needed to be addressed.

This has NOTHING to do with the criminal justice system. It is only about how the University deals with sexual and domestic assault with regards to it's internal judicial system regarding it's student body.

There is something to be said that every year we seem to be dealing with these issues from football and basketball players. Whether guilty or not, the fact that there are so many allegations should be cause for concern about the safety of students and visitors on campus.

That's a pretty accurate synopsis from my reading too.

There's an old saying "Where there is smoke, there is fire". For about 120 students (BB/FB), there seems to be a very high incidence of rape / sexual assault claims. Plus being made public.

Each case should be handled by the legal system to determine whether another old saying is in play or not. That is "it's easier for a girl to lift her skirt, than for a boy to drop his pants".

But as you say this filing appears to be all about UT, UTAD, and UTFB/UTBB's procedural mishandling (read whitewashing) of six particular and similar cases. Which leads to another old saying that "Cheek", "Hart", & "Jones" are operating under a "boys will be boys" approach to justice.

Time will tell.

 

[JCHateSteve]

Yeah I think this is where 'opinion' for either side comes in.
I'm just saying of never heard of having to provide legal counsel to someone that may eventually be filing a lawsuit against you in the future.
Whether that's fair or unjust, is fair to debate.
But I have never heard of it so it just seems odd to be in a lawsuit as an irregularity.

Personally, I would instruct a relative of mine to focus on our justice system, not an internal led investigation.

Going straight to the cops is definitely the better route. That system they are using at the university sounds very strange based on this article.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

That's a pretty accurate synopsis from my reading too.

There's an old saying "Where there is smoke, there is fire". For about 120 students (BB/FB), there seems to be a very high incidence of rape / sexual assault claims. Plus being made public.

Each case should be handled by the legal system to determine whether another old saying is in play or not. That is "it's easier for a girl to lift her skirt, than for a boy to drop his pants".

But as you say this filing appears to be all about UT, UTAD, and UTFB/UTBB's procedural mishandling (read whitewashing) of six particular and similar cases. Which leads to another old saying that "Cheek", "Hart", & "Jones" are operating under a "boys will be boys" approach to justice.

Time will tell.

I'd like to see a report comparing the number and resolution of sexual assault claims that occur in other dorms and frat houses to see how they compare with the athletic dorm.

 

[BIGORANGEBUBBA]

If this is true, then CBJ is/was aware that the allegations are true! I'm sure CBJ wouldn't kick a guy off the team because someone accused him of being from Mars, etc., unless, of course, there were enough proof to make him do so. If CBJ has knowledge of a rape, and his response is to kick the rapist off the team, rather than make a statement to law enforcement, he needs to get his head screwed on straight. My guess is, CBJ is so Great, he would never just kick a guy of the team, because he had very strong knowledge of a Rape, but would rather make a full report to Law Enforcement. The Athletic Dept. at UT, would never under any circumstances try to cover up a rape or two or six.

I doubt he would have knowledge of it. Likely knowledge of an accusation which is no more than anyone else. In regards to reporting to law enforcement, it is the alleged victim's responsibility to report it. If there is no victim with a complaint there is no crime.

 

[newyorkvol]

New policy was put into place in 8/2015.

Would be interested to see what guidelines University was using in 11/2014.

 

[RibFeast]

The lawsuit seems pretty vague, I think they will need to be more specific about what happened if they want to be taken seriously. UT is an easy target by this kind of lawsuit because of the recent AJ case. Wouldn't be surprised if most of the girls drop the lawsuit in the next 2 weeks. Attorney probably rounded up as many females as she/he could to provide strength in numbers, which can give them more leverage by saying "Look at HOW MANY females were affected by this policy."

In all reality I think this lawsuit is too vague and will be thrown out of court unless they have some STELLAR evidence to back up these horrendous charges.

 

[Boca Vol]

Going straight to the cops is definitely the better route. That system they are using at the university sounds very strange based on this article.

Isn't that what happened in the AJ/Williams incident in Nov '14? KPD was notified, then UTPD, then Hart, etc.

Having just read the 64 pages it doesn't paint a very good picture of the UTAD and administration. While there are certainly some mis-stated claims such as (see page 48) I don't believe UT creates/ fosters an environment of "directly supporting, maintaining, and controlling environments for athletes in the major sports of football and basketball that encourage underage drinking, drug use and rape;..." Give me a break!

Another is listing things that go back 20+ years and including thefts, etc. that have nothing to do with Title IX.

Now, casting aside those ignorant claims, there are some legitimate concerns in the document. If UT can't contradict the plantiffs' cases and provide proof that UT provided extra education, etc. after the 1st few incidences then this could get ugly. I hope it doesn't.

 

[zeppelin128]

Is the student making the accusations provided equivalent legal council? The article doesn't really say. If not then this it's going to be a problem.

You are correct. Definitely a question that needs answering. That would change matters considerably.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Going straight to the cops is definitely the better route. That system they are using at the university sounds very strange based on this article.

Going to the university instead of the cops with allegations this serious is strange to begin with.

 

[chargervol]

One other question for anyone that knows.
Out of the plaintiffs, how many were handled by UT exclusively where police weren't involved.
I already understand that the Jane Doe can't be answered.

 

[ptcarter]

As I read this suit, it appears that this is a claim for the following:

1. UT's procedures for university adjudication sexual and domestic assault against student athletes unfairly favors the (male) student athletes.

2. Accused student athletes almost always obtain legal counsel of Mr. Bosch immediately. Mr. Bosch is a member of the UT Board of Athletics.

3. Adjudication is not timely and the administrative judge is appointed by Cheek and Cheek handles all appeals.

4. Former UT Vice Chancellor Rogers repeatedly raised concern that the culture of football and basketball, including in the sports dormitory, perpetuated sexual and domestic assault and UT took no action to change it's standards.

5. The sheer number of incidents reported should have raised awareness that UT's culture and system of adjudication needed to be addressed.

This has NOTHING to do with the criminal justice system. It is only about how the University deals with sexual and domestic assault with regards to it's internal judicial system regarding it's student body.

There is something to be said that every year we seem to be dealing with these issues from football and basketball players. Whether guilty or not, the fact that there are so many allegations should be cause for concern about the safety of students and visitors on campus.

Interesting: I see #3 as a little alarming in having too much power concentrated in one person. Anybody else seeing this? Trust this guy to do the right thing?

 

[JCHateSteve]

Isn't that what happened in the AJ/Williams incident in Nov '14? KPD was notified, then UTPD, then Hart, etc.

Having just read the 64 pages it doesn't paint a very good picture of the UTAD and administration. While there are certainly some mis-stated claims such as (see page 48) I don't believe UT creates/ fosters an environment of "directly supporting, maintaining, and controlling environments for athletes in the major sports of football and basketball that encourage underage drinking, drug use and rape;..." Give me a break!

Another is listing things that go back 20+ years and including thefts, etc. that have nothing to do with Title IX.

Now, casting aside those ignorant claims, there are some legitimate concerns in the document. If UT can't contradict the plantiffs' cases and provide proof that UT provided extra education, etc. after the 1st few incidences then this could get ugly. I hope it doesn't.

I hope it's all blown out of proportion. But as the father of a young daughter this definitely gives me a moment of pause. It seems there are some issue to address or at least investigate. This seems like one of those where there is smoke there is fire kind of deals.

The criticisms of CBJ seem unfounded. He is suspending players as soon as there are accusations. I don't know what else they expect him to do.

The statement that Hart had undue influence in the process is the one that could really bite them if they(the plaintiff) can prove it.

 

[Boca Vol]

I hope it's all blown out of proportion. But as the father of a young daughter this definitely gives me a moment of pause. It seems there are some issue to address or at least investigate. This stand like one of those where there is snoke's there is fire kind of deals.

The criticisms of CBJ seem unfounded. He is suspending players as soon as there are accusations. I don't know what else they expect him to do.

The statement that Hart had undue influence in the process is the one that could really bite them if they can prove it.

I certainly think Jones is listed to add a "name" to the suit...in some degree.

But (and I know this doesn't mean proof) having pictures taken and tweeting pics with Lil' Jon, AJ (during the events in question) and putting them on UT's website probably wasn't the smartest thing to do.

 

[RikidyBones]

I see Tennessee giving the accused all the resources to defend themselves because an accusation will change their status as a student and also their life outside of school or sports. I can see that as an explanation and I'm honestly OK with it. I also think the accuser should have resources available too, however a lack of criminal charges and indictments is alarming because that is where the weight of this will rest.

Then, accusing lil Jon and foregoing Drae Bowles actual words for a third party as proof is suspect. I just have a hard time taking this seriously enough to wonder "what's going on at Tennessee"

 

[JCHateSteve]

I certainly think Jones is listed to add a "name" to the suit...in some degree.

But (and I know this doesn't mean proof) having pictures taken and tweeting pics with Lil' Jon, AJ (during the events in question) and putting them on UT's website probably wasn't the smartest thing to do.

True, Butch needs to use this as a learning moment to stress keeping yourself out of situations that can breed this kind of thing.

I think the real question here though is are Hart and Cheek colluding in some way make incidents go away. If that's the case things are going to get real hot real fast.

 

[98stage2]

This isn't good at all, why can't we ever have nice things at Tennessee?

Because they get drunk and cry rape? :ermm::unsure:

 

[ButchPlz]

Going to the university instead of the cops with allegations this serious is strange to begin with.

And beyond stupid.

The only reason I can really think of doing that is if you don't have enough of a case to get the real legal system involved.

We've seen this approach used in the past at other universities- no legal case, so smear a guy and get him kicked out at the university level.

In any case, giving ANY university ANY power over these cases, which Title IX and most recently Barack Obama have done, is insane. This is a legal issue, not a school one.