Sweeping Sexual Assault Suit Filed Against UT

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#226
#226
vol66 said:
Just like to correct on the Pearson thing, what she admitted and her allegations are two different things. She accused Pearson of rape and he provided his DNA which made it impossible for the prosecution to move forward.

That is, however, separate from the school's investigation and the two different proceedings share little in common.
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Just checked old article from August and it said the DNA test given was negative. I am just saying the circumstances to me make not black and white. I want justice don't get me wrong.

What are your thoughts on Butch being called out in directly in lawsuit?
 
#227
#227
volman85 said:
Just checked old article from August and it said the DNA test given was negative. I am just saying the circumstances to me make not black and white. I want justice don't get me wrong.

What are your thoughts on Butch being called out in directly in lawsuit?
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You name everyone you can in a lawsuit, and leave it to them to get themselves out of it.
 
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#228
#228
EZE said:
But not for claims based on what is alleged in the suit. Now, if defamatory statements were made outside of that context, then a cause can be alleged.
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I'm speaking generally, very generally.

I also didn't go into an analysis that these defendants are likely public figures, therefore the ability to win a defamation case is greatly diminished.

But, let's not draw down from the reality that defamation only takes a communicated false statement and damages (absent some exclusion like the floor of the legislature, etc).
 
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#229
#229
For those that are interested plaintiffs attorney David Randolph Smith went to the other UT law school (Texas). And is a professor at Vanderbilt law school. None of the lawyers in his firm went to Tennessee undergrad or law school.

I hope ut responds strongly to this action. put those plaintiffs under a microscope. This is a civil action. Lots more info is fair game and discoverable of plaintiffs than in a criminal case. Light em up I say. Turnabout is fair play
 
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#230
#230
volman85 said:
Just checked old article from August and it said the DNA test given was negative. I am just saying the circumstances to me make not black and white. I want justice don't get me wrong.

What are your thoughts on Butch being called out in directly in lawsuit?
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I don't really have any other than no coach and I'm saying assistants, AD, etc. should be getting involved in the University's investigations.

The whole "gather info" and "suspending from team activities", "handling internally", etc...is all the coaches should be concerned with.

There should be no contact allowed by any member of the AD with a potential victim or their family in a rape/assault case because it looks like you're trying to use status to persuade.

On a much less severe level, Pearl contacting the father of a recruit while the NCAA was in town. It looked like he was trying to get the father to lie, which is a bad look.
 
#232
#232
TVOL71 said:
By the way, I suspect the Nashville lawyer pushing this case is a Vandy grad looking to stick it to UT.
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Why would a lawyer ruin his reputation just for the sake of some stupid college rivalry? I hate vandy as much as the next guy, but there are some very smart people that come out of there.
 
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#233
#233
Am I missing something here? Johnson and Williams were immediately suspended after their arrest that it awaiting trial. Pearson was suspended while the KPD conducted their investigation and was later reinstated after no evidence was found. So was this not handled properly? Just curious
 
#235
#235
vol66 said:
If you believe five young women making rape allegations, and that the process the school uses to sort it out is flawed and that there was interference in the school's investigations by coaches, players, the AD and school officials is "easy" for them...we can just agree to disagree.

I will remind that at least in one case, it was a male and female UT athlete.

Check out the document, that part should make all sad.
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I guess we disagree because saying something happened isn't really that hard. If any of these women were truly raped, then they have my sympathy. Whether or not they were raped, that's not my call to make, that is a criminal matter. And I'm not suggesting they made things up, I'm just simply stating I don't have all the pertinent facts. Even after reading a large portion of the complaint, all I see are allegations. Proof won't be set forth until the trial, and I highly doubt we will be privy to it.

And whether or not UT athletes, male or female, were involved changes nothing of my opinion. If someone commits a crime, they can pay the time. It doesn't matter who they are.

Personally, I'm not against UT recusing itself from these cases and letting the justice system work before making a decision. Why should anyone, athlete or not, be suspended from school based off of allegations? If it's innocent until proven guilty, which it should be, then why pre-emptively punish someone that's not been convicted? If they're convicted, throw the book at them, but until such time, they have rights, too.

Also, this allegation of somehow supporting alcohol abuse, I mean, damn, what university has ever been able to stop any of its students from drinking? Parents should be teaching their sons not to take advantage of women, but parents should also be teaching their daughters don't go to parties and get so drunk you make yourself prone to getting taken advantage of. Responsibility is a two way street. Are we to believe in the cases where alcohol was involved that it was forced down the throats of these women? At some point, they themselves made a poor choice, which in no way excuses actual rape, but alcohol certainly skews the line of what is and is not rape. Why is a drunk man responsible, and a drunk female a victim? I fail to see equality in that.

This whole thing is a cluster****. Personally, I hope it does change the way UT handles these cases, but I'm not sure these women deserve any kind of recompense from the University. Maybe a tuition refund, but little else, imo. People should also leave them the hell alone. They should not be subjected to further harassment. It's very likely out of five allegations, at least one is true, so they have my deepest heartfelt sympathies, though I doubt they want them, but if the justice system has failed them, that is the fault of the justice system.
 
#236
#236
volnpowell said:
Btw, if anyone rapes someone, I do want convicted, but I also (player or not) do not like that someone can claim you did something and be treated like guilty and basically be punished even though innocent. Just imagine if someone accused you of something you did not do, and your life is ruined even though innocent.
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These arguments are really ridiculous. If you are arrested for ANYTHING it is in the public domain. If it is for any sexual crime you can damn well be sure that it is going to be reported by the media, superstar athlete or not. Every rape here in Birmingham is, that's for sure.

I can guarantee you that if I am arrested for rape, my boss will know, my neighbors will know, and everyone else in my life. I will then have violated a morality clause in my employment agreement and be fired. It's the way the real world works.

Yet you argue for special treatment for football players so they can keep playing. Sorry, if you get arrested for rape, there is no way to keep that quiet, and guilty or innocent, there will be consequences.

EDIT: Hell, even if a rape complaint is filed against you, it is public record in every city in America. When it shows up on a police blotter, it will be reported as happened to AJ. Bottom line is that, no matter who you are, you can't get that s**t back in the horse.
 
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#237
#237
Volmorning said:
These arguments are really ridiculous. If you are arrested for ANYTHING it is in the public domain. If it is for any sexual crime you can damn well be sure that it is going to be reported by the media, superstar athlete or not. Every rape here in Birmingham is, that's for sure.

I can guarantee you that if I am arrested for rape, my boss will know, my neighbors will know, and everyone else in my life. I will then have violated a morality clause in my employment agreement and be fired. It's the way the real world works.

Yet you argue for special treatment for football players so they can keep playing. Sorry, if you get arrested for rape, there is no way to keep that quiet, and guilty or innocent, there will be consequences.
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It's not about special treatment for anyone, it's about equal treatment for everyone. I'm sorry you are too blind to see that argument, but if the accusers can be protected by anonymity, the accused can be as well. Why should they be made to suffer without ever having been found guilty? Not just athletes, anyone? Let the courts work before they become subject to public domain. I fail to see how that is unfair to anyone.
 
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#238
#238
No sooner than our Vols start making head way and start to get things a rolling, something like this pops up again. Unbelivable!
 
#240
#240
Under title ix universities that receive federal funds have to respond to these sorts of allegations promptly and the remedies have to be adequate. I'm going to assume that the plaintiffs lawyers are going to argue that the TUAPA doesn't meet the promptness requirement because it's not as fast as what you might get with a behind closed doors administrative decision made after meeting with accuser and accused separately. Since, as the article points out, this is a new first in the nation process that UT developed in the wake of other allegations last year, I'd look at this as more of a test case initiated by the "safe place" crowd to see if they can get a federal judge to toss out anything that even remotely resembles due process for the accused in an administrative forum under Title IX. UT needs to let this go to trial and, if they lose, appeal as far as they can. This isn't about DNA Evidence of whether assaults occurred, that's for criminal courts to decide. This is about whether we're going to have a Duke lacrosse type rush to judgment following every title IX charge that is made on a university campus or will we actually take a little time to look and give the accused an opportunity to present some evidence.
 
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#241
#241
A simple check on the internet, and things dont seem so pleasent. There is talks already of suspensions, bowl bans, and heavy penalties. I hope that none of this is true, and nobody was hurt. But this has me worried. I hope im wrong. GBO.
 
#242
#242
shodog said:
A simple check on the internet, and things dont seem so pleasent. There is talks already of suspensions, bowl bans, and heavy penalties. I hope that none of this is true, and nobody was hurt. But this has me worried. I hope im wrong. GBO.
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Only way any of that happens is if Cheek orders it as a way to try and satiate the pitchfork mob that will certainly be calling on the Gov to replace him tomorrow. Title IX claims have low burden of proof. If any of this stuff could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt the charges would already be filed. NCAA is not going to get in the middle of this.
 
#243
#243
shodog said:
A simple check on the internet, and things dont seem so pleasent. There is talks already of suspensions, bowl bans, and heavy penalties. I hope that none of this is true, and nobody was hurt. But this has me worried. I hope im wrong. GBO.
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Where did you see all of this?
 
#245
#245
Thanks VolHillbilly. I am not up to speed on any of this. Just dont want everything derailed that seems to be going so well
 
#247
#247
Let's take off our blinders. Something obviously happened. And for the sake of our students (athletes or not) and the reputation of our University, I'm glad the process is being challenged.

If it's found to be unfairly weighted, then those responsible will have to account for that, and hopefully changes will be made.

What I don't like is the current trend to take what is at is core a great thing (Title IX) and turn it into something harmful. That legislation has been very effective, but the recent trend in using it on college campus sexual assault cases is somewhat disturbing, as was seen at Duke and UVA with athletes and other places such as Auburn and West Point with general students.

Again, hopefully something good comes from this.
 
#248
#248
How is CBJ implied. Since he got here, he kicks guys off the team who he knows are involved in this kind of stuff.. A.J., Mike williams, von Pearson, treyvon paulk...
 
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#250
#250
As someone who works in higher Ed this Title 9 crap is very flawed. Student's lifes get ruined as ppl who have zero law knowledge are hearing and deciding these cases. There is zero burden of proof in most of these cases and many kids are getting kicked off of college campuses just because they get "accused" of something.
 
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