Swain not impressed with Wells hire.

['Boro-vol]

In spite of the OL and other seemingly obvious weaknesses and inconsistencies... Jones seems to believe his O system is "fine". Statistically, they are. The problem IMO is that Jones thinks this success was more his system than the players... I doubt that's true. OL play has stank every year since his staff started to have a real impact. The O was not good until Dobbs took over and started bailing it out with his running ability.

Your words have strong medicine.

 

[TNnative]

There were numerous reports that the OL was overweight and out of shape during last preseason. Once games started, the issues were there for all to see. It's obvious that the preseason S&C program was not getting it done. The "player lead team" was failing. Enter Gullickson. I'm venturing a guess that the life of the entire team will get significantly more intense this preseason. Having an OL coach who is known and respected by the OL will help everyone adapt to the transition and raise their game. I'm sure Wells knows the game and can teach OL techniques. Once games start, we will see if the Gullickson/ Wells combination will be successful. I actually think that we will see improvement.

I heard a rumor that the "player leaders" influenced the firing of Lawson. The person I heard it from was under the impression he worked them too hard.

There are two sides to that coin. If Lawson was let go merely because of players choice, that can be construed as letting the maniacs run the asylum. BUT, if players wanted him gone because his workouts were aggravating injuries and giving insufficient gains? It might be for the best long term but the vacancy seemed to cause more issues than it resolved.

As to the line's performance this past season, starters missing time and playing hurt was an issue, but there was a definite lack of a dominate attitude at times. Lesser opponents were getting through to disrupt plays too often. I hope if Wells improves anything on the line, it is to get the line's technique more stout and more protective of the guys they block for. No more seeming passive or confused on what they are suppose to do.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Not a fair assessment.

You act as if we are AL with an unlimited budget. We are not, so Butch has to find some coaches that provide bang for the buck. In these hires you can see he went for people he knows. He has also hired coaches to use their strengths.

Hoke had some failures but not in coaching the DLine. DLine is his strength. He will be great.

Same with Canales. Failures at OC/HC but strength in coaching QB. Compare Canales resume to other QB coaches in the SEC and you will see he is not so bad. It is hard to produce a hismen winner in the lower level programs.

Only negas have said anything bad about Gullickson. I like this hire. His NFL experience has to be a plus in recruiting. He has a track record of sucess, not failure as you suggest.

I am a bit underwhelmed at the Wells hire but I believe he was hired in the QC role as a backup for Mahoney. I really like him on the recruiting side. He did well this cycle. We got some decent linemen when we haven't utilized what we have very well. If he is even an average position coach it is an upgrade. He's been here long enough for Butch to assess him. I got to believe in his QC role he has identified our problems.

Defense has cause the Vol nation problems since Butch arrived. You can see that is where Butch put the $. Quit complaining about the offense when D is the problem.

Read the resumes of the staff at other SEC programs and you'll see we match up well with all but AL.

I never brought up Alabama and it's a ridiculously short sighted argument to say UT is on a strict budget with making hires.

Only LSU, Bama, A& M, and UGA are spending more than the Vols on assistant coaches. And this is based on last year's numbers, Hoke alone is being paid 90 K more than Stripling was as an example to counteract the budget being an excuse as you suggest.

Football | Assistant | Salaries | USA TODAY Sports

Regarding Gullickson, I didn't suggest a "track record of failure", I said he came from a bad NFL team which you can't dispute and I also question how his NFL background meshes with college players.

Pretend you know how it will play out better than I do if it makes you feel better but the truth is you don't have a clue either.

I am judging these hires based on the only thing we can judge them on right now, their backgrounds.

 

[volboy81]

There are about a dozen or so posters on here who are never impressed with anything about Tennessee sports. Ignore them and move on. Swain really tries to stir the pot because that is the only thing he does well. Of all the bad sports show hosts, he is close the the bottom, just ahead of Will West.

I like Swain ok but can't change the station fast enough when Will West starts yammering!
Just read an article on Wells & what TN HSFB coaches think of him. They almost worship him it sounded like, especially in the Midstate. Sounds like a good hire to me!

 

[HillsboroCoachLo]

That's funny because I've never been impressed with Swain.. Still trying to figure out why his opinion matters.

 

[hohenfelsvol]

In spite of the OL and other seemingly obvious weaknesses and inconsistencies... Jones seems to believe his O system is "fine". Statistically, they are. The problem IMO is that Jones thinks this success was more his system than the players... I doubt that's true. OL play has stank every year since his staff started to have a real impact. The O was not good until Dobbs took over and started bailing it out with his running ability.

Great points

 

[chargervol]

In spite of the OL and other seemingly obvious weaknesses and inconsistencies... Jones seems to believe his O system is "fine". Statistically, they are. The problem IMO is that Jones thinks this success was more his system than the players... I doubt that's true. OL play has stank every year since his staff started to have a real impact. The O was not good until Dobbs took over and started bailing it out with his running ability.

Makes sense.
But if our OL starts performing better with a different coach, maybe we won't need our QB to bail us out by running for his life. Maybe we can complete more passes and longer runs, gaining a few more yards on 1st and 2nd down? :dunno:

This season should tell the tale. New coach and same ol performance would point directly to scheme and vice versa.

 

[butchna]

How can all these hires be upgrades? I thought we had the best coaching staff in America! 😂😂

No you didn't.

 

[johnrlansford]

Makes sense.
But if our OL starts performing better with a different coach, maybe we won't need our QB to bail us out by running for his life. Maybe we can complete more passes and longer runs, gaining a few more yards on 1st and 2nd down? :dunno:

This season should tell the tale. New coach and same ol performance would point directly to scheme and vice versa.

It doesn't necessarily point to scheme it could point to recruiting evaluations, The best scheme can't make up for lack of talent.

It isn't the scheme that is the problem it is the people running the scheme, the players just aren't executing...bottom line we need better development of talent or better talent from recruiting evaluations.

The scheme isn't the problem. IMHO!

 

[jakez4ut]

Got a little "inside baseball" on Weinke. They wanted him, and he apparently wanted to be here. There was a number of central Florida High Schools that said he'd never be able to recruit their kids. He's not liked down there due to some IMG issues.

:thumbsup:

 

[jakez4ut]

It doesn't necessarily point to scheme it could point to recruiting evaluations, The best scheme can't make up for lack of talent.

It isn't the scheme that is the problem it is the people running the scheme, the players just aren't executing...bottom line we need better development of talent or better talent from recruiting evaluations.

The scheme isn't the problem. IMHO!

i tend to think the same. i'm not a huge fan of this system, but it, in and of itself, isn't the issue.

i think the s&c program, with some much better development, can go a long way. especially when you factor in injury rates.

i do wonder about the recruiting evaluations though. there's merit to the notion that not enough of the star power that's been recruited hasn't panned out, and not enough of the lesser stars have have developed in to meaningful contributors.

chicken or egg? for now, i want to err on the side of these changes being good ones, to help with both.

 

[chargervol]

It doesn't necessarily point to scheme it could point to recruiting evaluations, The best scheme can't make up for lack of talent.

It isn't the scheme that is the problem it is the people running the scheme, the players just aren't executing...bottom line we need better development of talent or better talent from recruiting evaluations.

The scheme isn't the problem. IMHO!

I think our OL coach had issues to be honest. But that's just my opinion.

But based off of that opinion, I can't see us having identical results with a different coach. Even if we missed on several talent evaluations, we should be able to push around teams like Appy State and not the opposite.

If the results look identical, I have to be open minded about the scheme.

 

[johnrlansford]

i tend to think the same. i'm not a huge fan of this system, but it, in and of itself, isn't the issue.

i think the s&c program, with some much better development, can go a long way. especially when you factor in injury rates.

i do wonder about the recruiting evaluations though. there's merit to the notion that not enough of the star power that's been recruited hasn't panned out, and not enough of the lesser stars have have developed in to meaningful contributors.

chicken or egg? for now, i want to err on the side of these changes being good ones, to help with both.

People want to blame everythin on the system because it is Butch's system. IT worked and Central Michigan and Cincinnati i believe it can work in the SEC. But you have to have SEC talent and development to Run it in the SEC. YOu can't do it with Mid-major talent or development.

A solid S&C coach and a quality OL coach will go a long way in the SEC!!! Go Vols!!!

 

[johnrlansford]

I think our OL coach had issues to be honest. But that's just my opinion.

But based off of that opinion, I can't see us having identical results with a different coach. Even if we missed on several talent evaluations, we should be able to push around teams like Appy State and not the opposite.

If the results look identical, I have to be open minded about the scheme.

Scheme didn't get us pushed around by Appy St., S&C did!! Hopefully that is Fixed with Rock. I don't see us getting pushed around by lower level talent this year with Rock in charge of S&C.

Still wasn't scheme IMHO!!!

 

[jakez4ut]

I think our OL coach had issues to be honest. But that's just my opinion.

But based off of that opinion, I can't see us having identical results with a different coach. Even if we missed on several talent evaluations, we should be able to push around teams like Appy State and not the opposite.

If the results look identical, I have to be open minded about the scheme.

that, i'd agree with. i'd just add that the changes to s&c coach also were made to help remedy this. if there's not a discernable difference in performance, at some point, yes, you have to wonder about the viability of that scheme against SEC caliber defenses (especially if it continues to perform similarly against what we would consider lesser opponents...ie, app st.)

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Makes sense.
But if our OL starts performing better with a different coach, maybe we won't need our QB to bail us out by running for his life. Maybe we can complete more passes and longer runs, gaining a few more yards on 1st and 2nd down? :dunno:

This season should tell the tale. New coach and same ol performance would point directly to scheme and vice versa.

This is what I am hoping for, that the team in the aggregate, specifically the O line can improve enough to replace Dobbs, Kamara, Hurd, and Malone on offense.

Improved O line play would make it a lot easier on the young QB's.

My misgivings about Wells stems from a resume that doesn't scream success at lower levels, much less SEC.

 

[volnbama_]

In spite of the OL and other seemingly obvious weaknesses and inconsistencies... Jones seems to believe his O system is "fine". Statistically, they are. The problem IMO is that Jones thinks this success was more his system than the players... I doubt that's true. OL play has stank every year since his staff started to have a real impact. The O was not good until Dobbs took over and started bailing it out with his running ability.

An offense that can't stop shooting itself in the foot is not good. I would be surprised if there was a team that turned the ball over more than the Vols this season

 

[jakez4ut]

An offense that can't stop shooting itself in the foot is not good. I would be surprised if there was a team that turned the ball over more than the Vols this season

we were near the top of the list if memory serves. and it could be worse, considering how many fumbles we recovered ourselves in the 1st few games of the year.

 

[johnrlansford]

An offense that can't stop shooting itself in the foot is not good. I would be surprised if there was a team that turned the ball over more than the Vols this season

Ole Miss
Kentucky
Arkansas
Missouri

All finished behind us in Turnover margin, I know that isn't the best stat but it atleast shows we weren't the worse!!!

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/turnover-margin-per-game

 

[chargervol]

I should have been more clear guys, I'm including improved S&C.

If our guys are tougher and there's a new coach teaching technique, I believe our offense looks a lot better. That's my opinion. But if it doesn't, then I've got to be open minded about the other possibility.

Personally, I think of our defense played worth a d***, we're at least 10 and 2 and not having any of these discussions.

No one has to remind me about only scoring three points in the second half against Vandy, but 34 points should have won the game. Hell, South Carolina beat them by scoring 13 points. We just didn't stop anybody.

Even with the fumbles against A&M, we hold them to anywhere near their normal yards in regulation, there's another win. Then we're SEC East champs and everybody's happy today.

 

[dcm3w]

Our o line looked better at end of the season and in the bowl game. Now with depth and hopefully no injuries we can be solid. Also, I'm a fan of consistency so I don't like Jones moving ppl around a lot.

 

[johnrlansford]

I should have been more clear guys, I'm including improved S&C.

If our guys are tougher and there's a new coach teaching technique, I believe our offense looks a lot better. That's my opinion. But if it doesn't, then I've got to be open minded about the other possibility.

Personally, I think of our defense played worth a d***, we're at least 10 and 2 and not having any of these discussions.

No one has to remind me about only scoring three points in the second half against Vandy, but 34 points should have won the game. Hell, South Carolina beat them by scoring 13 points. We just didn't stop anybody.

Even with the fumbles against A&M, we hold them to anywhere near their normal yards in regulation, there's another win. Then we're SEC East champs and everybody's happy today.

But a bad coach replacing another Bad coach would be the exception to your theory. Oline Development may not tell the whole story as far as the scheme, but it can't be ruled out completely!!!

 

[chargervol]

But a bad coach replacing another Bad coach would be the exception to your theory. Oline Development may not tell the whole story as far as the scheme, but it can't be ruled out completely!!!

True.
But if 2 OL hires in a row are that bad, I'm not sure that's any better. :unsure:

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

In spite of the OL and other seemingly obvious weaknesses and inconsistencies... Jones seems to believe his O system is "fine". Statistically, they are. The problem IMO is that Jones thinks this success was more his system than the players... I doubt that's true. OL play has stank every year since his staff started to have a real impact. The O was not good until Dobbs took over and started bailing it out with his running ability.

Amen.

And all we can do at this point is to hope that Wells is the magic elixir some on here think he is to cure the putrid offensive line play.

There won't be a Dobbs and Kamara around next season to break lose on those long runs that helps pad the stats.

My concerns with Canales and Wells is this...if they are so good at their jobs then why haven't either one of them broken through to have success at the higher levels of the NCAA in roughly 20 years each?

 

[jakez4ut]

I should have been more clear guys, I'm including improved S&C.

If our guys are tougher and there's a new coach teaching technique, I believe our offense looks a lot better. That's my opinion. But if it doesn't, then I've got to be open minded about the other possibility.

Personally, I think of our defense played worth a d***, we're at least 10 and 2 and not having any of these discussions.

No one has to remind me about only scoring three points in the second half against Vandy, but 34 points should have won the game. Hell, South Carolina beat them by scoring 13 points. We just didn't stop anybody.

Even with the fumbles against A&M, we hold them to anywhere near their normal yards in regulation, there's another win. Then we're SEC East champs and everybody's happy today.

i don't think anyone really disagrees with this. i siap earlier this thread, but i think if you want to blame the offense for anything, it was the inability for the offense to sustain drives and possess the ball, and keep our defense on the sidelines, and limit the opposing offenses opportunities.

once we got to the aTm game, we were already the walking wounded on defense, and it got worse after that, and it showed.

i'm not excusing the all time worst defensive performance we saw down the stretch, but i am saying the offense was continually getting off the field...quick.

i know it sounds odd to say "we scored too fast", given the amount of points were scored at times, but it seemed like it was feast or famine....score in bunches, or we couldn't generate a 1st down.

i never got the feeling, as good as our offense looked at times, that there was anything you could hang your hat on, and rely on to get 4-5 yards, to keep a drive going. or we'd turn it over. or have a penalty to kill a drive.

i just think, while we can laud the offense for the prolific #'s it put up at times, you can also look at it and say, given our defensive issues personnel wise, what might have been better? to score in 2 plays in 1:30, or have the ability to grind out an 8-10 play drive that took 6 minutes off the clock? especially in the 2nd half, when there were times we were up by 2 or more scores....point being, i don't think we were capable of doing that. i'm hoping thru better coaching, better s&c, that we see an O line that can go out and be capable of doing that. and still have the ability to hit the big plays.

but there were times where we'd hit a big play, and score, and the only thing i could think of was "we're just putting our D back on the field again, and that ain't good".

again, i know how that sounds...