Stubborn Factor

[Roustabout]

Coaches are stubborn people. Sometimes that can be a good thing. Imagine if a coach had a knee jerk reaction every time a player made a mistake, or fired a coordinator any time there was public pressure. It would be chaos. But that same stubbornness can at times be a detriment. I would say a big contributor to Fulmer's ultimate downfall was his stubborn refusal to let certain coaches go and make certain changes to his program. Remember Pat Washington?

After reading some recent venting by the Father of one of our back up lineman, this got me thinking. Everyone is raving about the 60 yard return by Evan Berry in the UF game. But guess what, it never would have happened barring injury. CBJ proclaimed that DY was the kick returner, end of story. Despite the fact that anyone can see he lacks big play ability and consistently goes down with little to no contact. I'd say that's text book stubbornness. Listen, Berry wasn't returning kicks in the UF game UNLESS an injury happened to DY. It wasn't some brilliant coaching substitution or CBJ realizing, "this needs to happen."

I'm not saying the fans know more than CBJ, they don't. But what was so evident to UT fans at the end of Fulmer's tenure seemed to complete escape the attention of the man right in the middle of the situation. The result was a legend being fired and a divided fan base. If a National Champion coach can lose sight, and through stubbornness kill his program, don't think it can't happen to CBJ or any other coach.

The O-line is struggling, duh. And yet, from our perspective, there is NO competition. CBJ made a statement after the Arky State game that, "This is the line we are going with from this point forward." This was before Thomas had ever even played a game at RT. Even if that is your opinion, why box yourself into a corner? We've seen nothing to convince us that this five is worthy of having no shake ups. I'm sorry but placing two true freshman on one side of your line is coaching suicide. And the coach's answer to why, seems to be, "because I said so."

Coleman Thomas was moved to RT and made starter in the spring as if angels appeared anointing him the next great thing. Seriously, why would a staff do such a thing? There wasn't any real competition. CT got the first team reps, until suddenly, in the Fall, he didn't. And we've seen nothing in his play to confirm why this staff made such a move in the Spring.

I know I'll catch a bunch of flak on this one, but go back and watch the replay of Berry's return and then understand that if CBJ had had his way, it never would have happened. Stubborn.

 

[utvolpj]

Devrin had many great reviews after his first time touching the ball too. How soon we forget

 

[IndianapolisVol]

First impression of the title and length was that you are a know-it-all, but then I read it and you make some great points.

Evan should have been our returner all year instead of riding pine for the first 6 weeks.

Devrin has a big heart but the "get to the 15 and fall down" method he uses has gotten old.

 

[Roustabout]

Devrin had many great reviews after his first time touching the ball too. How soon we forget

I'd love to forget this O-line.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Coaches are stubborn people. Sometimes that can be a good thing. Imagine if a coach had a knee jerk reaction every time a player made a mistake, or fired a coordinator any time there was public pressure. It would be chaos. But that same stubbornness can at times be a detriment. I would say a big contributor to Fulmer's ultimate downfall was his stubborn refusal to let certain coaches go and make certain changes to his program. Remember Pat Washington?

After reading some recent venting by the Father of one of our back up lineman, this got me thinking. Everyone is raving about the 60 yard return by Evan Berry in the UF game. But guess what, it never would have happened barring injury. CBJ proclaimed that DY was the kick returner, end of story. Despite the fact that anyone can see he lacks big play ability and consistently goes down with little to no contact. I'd say that's text book stubbornness. Listen, Berry wasn't returning kicks in the UF game UNLESS an injury happened to DY. It wasn't some brilliant coaching substitution or CBJ realizing, "this needs to happen."

I'm not saying the fans know more than CBJ, they don't. But what was so evident to UT fans at the end of Fulmer's tenure seemed to complete escape the attention of the man right in the middle of the situation. The result was a legend being fired and a divided fan base. If a National Champion coach can lose sight, and through stubbornness kill his program, don't think it can't happen to CBJ or any other coach.

The O-line is struggling, duh. And yet, from our perspective, there is NO competition. CBJ made a statement after the Arky State game that, "This is the line we are going with from this point forward." This was before Thomas had ever even played a game at RT. Even if that is your opinion, why box yourself into a corner? We've seen nothing to convince us that this five is worthy of having no shake ups. I'm sorry but placing two true freshman on one side of your line is coaching suicide. And the coach's answer to why, seems to be, "because I said so."

Coleman Thomas was moved to RT and made starter in the spring as if angels appeared anointing him the next great thing. Seriously, why would a staff do such a thing? There wasn't any real competition. CT got the first team reps, until suddenly, in the Fall, he didn't. And we've seen nothing in his play to confirm why this staff made such a move in the Spring.

I know I'll catch a bunch of flak on this one, but go back and watch the replay of Berry's return and then understand that if CBJ had had his way, it never would have happened. Stubborn.

You can't just expect Jones to sprinkle some magic dust on it. They have to keep working like heck to get better as part of the process.

Fulmer won a National Title with Randy Sanders calling the plays and the staff didn't get stupid overnight.

Jones has the best staff in America and they didn't get stupid overnight either.

It's part of the process to build this program up brick by brick and five wins is good enough at TN. It's good enough. Jones has plenty of equity from that SC game last season.

Sarcasm aside, you nail a great point IMO on some similarities we are seeing between Jones and Fulmer.

They both believed in their process whether it showed up with wins on the field or not.

 

[utvolpj]

I'd love to forget this O-line.

Way to address the point I made. If his last name wasn't Berry this wouldn't be much of a debate

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Devrin had many great reviews after his first time touching the ball too. How soon we forget

Yep.

Young trended downward statistically for 3 straight seasons after setting his high water mark on returns his freshman year yet Jones still had him as the first one out there.

 

[MedicT]

Tell me again who couldn't see the forest for the trees between Fulmer and the fan base? Was it a National Championship coach riding the natural cycle of success or a fan base hell bent on destruction because they wanted an eternal string of SEC championships?

 

[jps2194]

While I understand your point, let's think logically about this. Devrin is a senior and has been returning kicks a while. True, he isn't the most dynamic returner we've had but he didn't make many mistakes either.

I sincerely doubt this was stubborness more than it was playing it safe. Who knows if Berry would have got an opportunity at some point. He has obviously been doing it in practice or he wouldn't have got the opportunity in a game. But I'm sure there was a reluctance to put a FR back there when you have a SR who has proven he won't make big mistakes.

Nevertheless, it's nice to see we have a dynamic returner. It's been a LONG time. Let's hope that wasn't a fluke.

 

[TVA]

Either the coaches know something that the fans don't or they think they know. That should cover all bases.

 

[TnTech_Vol]

After reading some recent venting by the Father of one of our back up lineman, this got me thinking. Everyone is raving about the 60 yard return by Evan Berry in the UF game. But guess what, it never would have happened barring injury. CBJ proclaimed that DY was the kick returner, end of story. Despite the fact that anyone can see he lacks big play ability and consistently goes down with little to no contact. I'd say that's text book stubbornness. Listen, Berry wasn't returning kicks in the UF game UNLESS an injury happened to DY. It wasn't some brilliant coaching substitution or CBJ realizing, "this needs to happen."

Think Evan got the 60 yd return against UTC and not UF, a whole different team.

 

[Hayezb]

Think Evan got the 60 yd return against UTC and not UF, a whole different team.

Thank you.

I can not believe the reaction that some people are having to this. It was UTC people.

Not saying he can't do it against SEC teams, but the same people with high expectations after that one return will be the ones *****ing when he doesn't house one against Ole Miss.

 

[orangeluvr]

Ball security is an important part of the game, touchdowns are too !

 

[chattavol420]

Coaches are stubborn people. Sometimes that can be a good thing. Imagine if a coach had a knee jerk reaction every time a player made a mistake, or fired a coordinator any time there was public pressure. It would be chaos. But that same stubbornness can at times be a detriment. I would say a big contributor to Fulmer's ultimate downfall was his stubborn refusal to let certain coaches go and make certain changes to his program. Remember Pat Washington?

After reading some recent venting by the Father of one of our back up lineman, this got me thinking. Everyone is raving about the 60 yard return by Evan Berry in the UF game. But guess what, it never would have happened barring injury. CBJ proclaimed that DY was the kick returner, end of story. Despite the fact that anyone can see he lacks big play ability and consistently goes down with little to no contact. I'd say that's text book stubbornness. Listen, Berry wasn't returning kicks in the UF game UNLESS an injury happened to DY. It wasn't some brilliant coaching substitution or CBJ realizing, "this needs to happen."

I'm not saying the fans know more than CBJ, they don't. But what was so evident to UT fans at the end of Fulmer's tenure seemed to complete escape the attention of the man right in the middle of the situation. The result was a legend being fired and a divided fan base. If a National Champion coach can lose sight, and through stubbornness kill his program, don't think it can't happen to CBJ or any other coach.

The O-line is struggling, duh. And yet, from our perspective, there is NO competition. CBJ made a statement after the Arky State game that, "This is the line we are going with from this point forward." This was before Thomas had ever even played a game at RT. Even if that is your opinion, why box yourself into a corner? We've seen nothing to convince us that this five is worthy of having no shake ups. I'm sorry but placing two true freshman on one side of your line is coaching suicide. And the coach's answer to why, seems to be, "because I said so."

Coleman Thomas was moved to RT and made starter in the spring as if angels appeared anointing him the next great thing. Seriously, why would a staff do such a thing? There wasn't any real competition. CT got the first team reps, until suddenly, in the Fall, he didn't. And we've seen nothing in his play to confirm why this staff made such a move in the Spring.

I know I'll catch a bunch of flak on this one, but go back and watch the replay of Berry's return and then understand that if CBJ had had his way, it never would have happened. Stubborn.

I agree. I've never understood why the coaches refuse to let anyone other than dy return. He lacks the game changing speed necessary to break one. I also don't understand the read option with worley playing qb. And Butch better get a little less loyal to the oc... Or he'll eventually be going with him. The other thing Butch needs to do is play more aggressively and loose. We should have went for it multiple times this year in short yardage situations.

 

[McDad]

Are we seriously suggesting that coaches are willingly neutering the team because of stubborness?

the return by EB was exciting. However, we are witnessing one return. We do not see what occurs in practice which gives a coach confidence in a player or causes trepidation.

Freshman play on this team. Is that stubborness? After all, We aren't playing the most experienced players in certain positions. C'mon man.

 

[windyvol]

You can't just expect Jones to sprinkle some magic dust on it. They have to keep working like heck to get better as part of the process.

Fulmer won a National Title with Randy Sanders calling the plays and the staff didn't get stupid overnight.

Jones has the best staff in America and they didn't get stupid overnight either.

It's part of the process to build this program up brick by brick and five wins is good enough at TN. It's good enough. Jones has plenty of equity from that SC game last season.

Sarcasm aside, you nail a great point IMO on some similarities we are seeing between Jones and Fulmer.

They both believed in their process whether it showed up with wins on the field or not.

Except Filmer didn't stick to his process and recruiting suffered. Asst coaches were in revolving door positions after a decade of staff stability.

 

[DaphneVol]

I remember seeing an interview where CBJ commented on freshmen being game ready. He said some are ready now, some by game 3, others by game 6 etc, and some will red shirt.

Point is, he may have known Berry would ultimately be ready to play a bigger role on the team. Maybe the injury sped things up and he had is chance and made the most of it. Not everything is stubbornness with coaches.

As for the OL, maybe Coleman developed in practice. Maybe they are the best we have? They need to play with some piss and vinegar. When 55 or 77 act like a matador, Worley or another OL needs to get in their ear and demand better. People are capable of doing things beyond their current abilities.

 

[92volalum]

I think he is playing freshman to show recruits if they come they will play like he promised.. That has to be the only reason to keep playing players that ate costing you on the field.

Or maybe he thinks its OK to take tn to historical lows so when he tops out at 8 wins tn fans will love him..because they love him now n he could have back to back 5 wins. Lol

 

[Deputy Fife]

Excessive stubbornness from the staff is the biggest threat with regard to the success of the team.

 

[YorkVol]

Butch showed flexibility against Florida last year and started a red shirt freshman over a junior at QB. That shake up cost us a game and may have ruined a young player...

 

[66volfan]

I think he is playing freshman to show recruits if they come they will play like he promised.. That has to be the only reason to keep playing players that ate costing you on the field.

Or maybe he thinks its OK to take tn to historical lows so when he tops out at 8 wins tn fans will love him..because they love him now n he could have back to back 5 wins. Lol

Throwing games to help recruiting and make himself look better? Really? I guess I'm just too slow for your quick wit cause you gotta be kidding.

 

[mtennvol]

As far as Berry, the return was against UTC. It also wasn't really based on his skill as he was bottle up then was able to bounce off the pile and run. At that point, most of UTC's team was on the opposite side of the field.

Anyway, our O-line isn't good. It's not stubbornness. It's like a broken record, but we don't spend as much time with these guys or see them in competitive reps like the coaches.

 

[eakes]

Most coaches are conservative by nature. They prefer experience over youth and vigor. This is true from peewee league to the NFL. As a coach one generally goes with a player known not to make many mistakes. Fumble on a kickoff and the defense is now in very poor position. Better to have your offense at the 15 than defending from the 25!

As far as OL goes, consistency is important. Players and coaches will tell you they need to know what the guy next to them is going to do. Being unsure breeds hesitation which usually results in a sack or the RB tackled behind the line. If at all possible you want the OL playing together for as long as possible - hence you do not interchange players willy nilly. To my knowledge there has been no new OL players added to the roster since the beginning of fall camp, therefore one must assume the coaches have evaluated personnel and have the best combination possible on the OL. Now, as painful as it might be, we must wait for training and experience to sink in.

It is possible that over the next 2-3 games there will be a noticeable improvement in OL play. Don't expect miracles level of play will not be to NFL caliber, but average SEC would do wonders. Given the make up of this team a small degree of improvement in the OL play could mean a big change in points on the scoreboard.

Better times are on the near horizon but a bit of patience is required!

 

[utvols74]

Stubbornness is not putting in 2 TE's to chip block on their way to a shallow route or screen pass.

Stubbornness is relying on the same 5 players imitating matadors (as some said earlier) as the opponents pounce on Worley.

 

[sjt18]

Coaches are stubborn people. Sometimes that can be a good thing. Imagine if a coach had a knee jerk reaction every time a player made a mistake, or fired a coordinator any time there was public pressure. It would be chaos. But that same stubbornness can at times be a detriment. I would say a big contributor to Fulmer's ultimate downfall was his stubborn refusal to let certain coaches go and make certain changes to his program. Remember Pat Washington?

Randy Sanders more than anyone else cost Fulmer his job. If Sanders is fired in 2002 after it was obvious that the O had slipped badly then Fulmer is probably still HC... and it is possible none of these bad years happen. He was too stubborn about firing coaches... and some have been far too stubborn to recognize how detrimental his stubbornness had become.

After reading some recent venting by the Father of one of our back up lineman,

Have you given any details of this anywhere? I know that if I were the father of a backup OL at UT I'd be pretty hacked off if my kid didn't get a shot.

Everyone is raving about the 60 yard return by Evan Berry in the UF game. But guess what, it never would have happened barring injury.

There's no way to know that. The play happened because Chattanooga's lane discipline was non-existent. It was a good play but it isn't something that DY or several others "could" not have done. Would have done? We'll never know.

The O-line is struggling, duh. And yet, from our perspective, there is NO competition. CBJ made a statement after the Arky State game that, "This is the line we are going with from this point forward." This was before Thomas had ever even played a game at RT. Even if that is your opinion, why box yourself into a corner? We've seen nothing to convince us that this five is worthy of having no shake ups. I'm sorry but placing two true freshman on one side of your line is coaching suicide. And the coach's answer to why, seems to be, "because I said so."

He rightly saw that the constant changes were not allowing continuity. You can probably question the 5 he chose... and frankly I'm beginning to... but I would call it "good" stubbornness that he stopped the musical chairs when he did.

You make some really, really good points but I think you missed the biggest "stubborn" thing he's doing right now. He's refusing to modify or adjust his offensive focus/concepts.

To be honest, I questioned what they were doing on D last year by stubbornly sticking with some things when they weren't working... and it is now paying dividends.

But right now they seem to be stubbornly saying "this is our O and we're running it regardless".... when they actually CAN'T run some of it.

I'm not talking about the major adjustments that some are. I'm just talking about refocusing their O on elements that the O does well... like the dread "dink and dunk".