Still waiting for Hatevol

#51
#51
lawgator1 said:
Yes, Leak is one of the main reasons we won the NT this year. No, Manning was not a main reason you did not win one during his tenure. But that means I can still pick Leak for winning the big one, right? That's all I'm saying.

Let me ask you, who was the "best" QB at Tennessee? And why?
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what exactly did Leak bring to the table that was so much better than anything he had ever done in the past while at FL? what was so important to this team that he was the only one that could contribute it? hell, half your fans booed him out of the stadium on more than one occaison in favor of Tebow.

your defense last year is what put you ahead of everyone else. nothing the qb did was all that spectactular. in fact, i would argue that you won it in spite of Leak.
 
#52
#52
lawgator1 said:
Yes, Leak is one of the main reasons we won the NT this year. No, Manning was not a main reason you did not win one during his tenure. But that means I can still pick Leak for winning the big one, right? That's all I'm saying.

Let me ask you, who was the "best" QB at Tennessee? And why?
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Listen, we paid T Martin not to lose games and relied on Manning, too heavily at times to win games. Manning detractors will always fault him for losing games and we can't change that. He is easily the best QB UT has had and possibly the best in the history of the conference.

Who was QB at 'Bama when they crushed Miami for the title? He an all time great because they took it to the house?

You would never consider building a college team around Leak if you had Manning as an option and you're not convincing me otherwise. I'm being presumptuous in assuming that you'd take the best option and not the sentimental one. But, you're a lawyer type and might be knee deep in the ACLU and make stupid stands daily for many of the wrong reasons. I'm just hoping not, for I'd have to write you off altogether and join most of the other Vol fans.
 
#53
#53
BigPapaVol said:
Listen, we paid T Martin not to lose games and relied on Manning, too heavily at times to win games. Manning detractors will always fault him for losing games and we can't change that. He is easily the best QB UT has had and possibly the best in the history of the conference.

Who was QB at 'Bama when they crushed Miami for the title? He an all time great because they took it to the house?

You would never consider building a college team around Leak if you had Manning as an option and you're not convincing me otherwise. I'm being presumptuous in assuming that you'd take the best option and not the sentimental one. But, you're a lawyer type and might be knee deep in the ACLU and make stupid stands daily for many of the wrong reasons. I'm just hoping not, for I'd have to write you off altogether and join most of the other Vol fans.
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Well, now you are altering the context. If we are building a fantasy team, I take Danny Wuerffeul in a heartbeat over Manning or Leak for a college team. But these things didn't happen in a vaccum. Manning, when the chips were down, did not get it done. Leak did. Its a simple historical fact.
 
#54
#54
lawgator1 said:
Well, now you are altering the context. If we are building a fantasy team, I take Danny Wuerffeul in a heartbeat over Manning or Leak for a college team. But these things didn't happen in a vaccum. Manning, when the chips were down, did not get it done. Leak did. Its a simple historical fact.
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yep...sure did. he was awesome. honestly, i can't believe your defensive coordinator still has a job. that guy sucks.:crazy:

Chris Leak is college football's Trent Dilfer.
 
#55
#55
lawgator1 said:
Well, now you are altering the context. If we are building a fantasy team, I take Danny Wuerffeul in a heartbeat over Manning or Leak for a college team. But these things didn't happen in a vaccum. Manning, when the chips were down, did not get it done. Leak did. Its a simple historical fact.
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This is where your argument breaks down, LG. Of all the losses that UT had to UF with manning at the helm, only one could really be argued as manning not stepping up "when the chips were down." I mean, what was the guy supposed to do when spurrier hung 62 on us? Is he supposed to play defense?
 
#56
#56
Not sure I'd give Leak quite that much credit as if he was the college version of John Elway. Leak is Gino Toretta 15 years later.
 
#57
#57
kidbourbon said:
This is where your argument breaks down, LG. Of all the losses that UT had to UF with manning at the helm, only one could really be argued as manning not stepping up "when the chips were down." I mean, what was the guy supposed to do when spurrier hung 62 on us? Is he supposed to play defense?
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that was 95 right? i think Manning threw a couple of picks that contributed to that 62 points.

the only game that Manning truly played really well in was the 96 game...and we still lost.
 
#58
#58
lawgator1 said:
Well, now you are altering the context. If we are building a fantasy team, I take Danny Wuerffeul in a heartbeat over Manning or Leak for a college team. But these things didn't happen in a vaccum. Manning, when the chips were down, did not get it done. Leak did. Its a simple historical fact.
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:lolabove: :post-4-1090547912: :rofl: :lol:
 
#61
#61
lawgator1 said:
Well, now you are altering the context. If we are building a fantasy team, I take Danny Wuerffeul in a heartbeat over Manning or Leak for a college team. But these things didn't happen in a vaccum. Manning, when the chips were down, did not get it done. Leak did. Its a simple historical fact.
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I'm not building a fantasy team, only choosing between Leak and Manning and I'm saying it ain't even close. Leak at the helm of those mid 90s Vols and there would not have been any "big games" save rivalries like Alabama. I know, I know, it's conjecture. Regardless, Manning lived up to most of his recruiting hype, Leak almost lived up to Andy Kelly's recruiting hype.
 
#62
#62
hatvol96 said:
I think I've already responded to all the Manning fans. However, I do have a question. Does his win Sunday somehow change his 0-4 record against Florida? I think not. So, keep kissing his a$$. I will keep worrying about UT.
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It's not his fought that ut's defense allowed 62pts and 35 pts against a coach who has had fulmer's number for 10 years. Nor is it his fought that teams who play all of their home games in a Dome are 0-10 in a non-Dome stadium in the playoffs.
 
#63
#63
BigPapaVol said:
I'm not building a fantasy team, only choosing between Leak and Manning and I'm saying it ain't even close. Leak at the helm of those mid 90s Vols and there would not have been any "big games" save rivalries like Alabama. I know, I know, it's conjecture. Regardless, Manning lived up to most of his recruiting hype, Leak almost lived up to Andy Kelly's recruiting hype.
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now that's not entirely accurate.
 
#64
#64
MG1968 said:
Casey Clausen would be a better QB as well, since he beat UF twice, in the swamp. Further, if memory serves, it wasn't long after CC's first victory there that Spurrier tucked his tail between his legs and ran to the NFL.
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Clausen could never beat Georgia, so there goes that theory. Also, saying Spurrier fled to the NFL is ridiculous. That's like saying George Bush fled the governor's office in Texas to become President.
 
#65
#65
volfanbill said:
neither are ok. correct. in kelly's time bama was the team to beat. in manning's time, florida was the team to beat. it's regardless though. bottom line is the super bowl win did nothing meaningful for UT football. just peyton's legacy.
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I watched a basketball game last night nationally televised on ESPN between Tennessee and LSU. On the pregame talk it was conspiciously brought up by the TV crew that Peyton was a Tennessee QB and his NFL team just won the Super Bowl, complete with video of Peyton in his Big Orange uniform. Now this nationally televised broadcast just happened to be on the eve of national signing day. Could've possibly swayed a football player on the fence of who he might sign with and pick UT. Therefore I don't understand how you can say Peyton being a Volunteer and his team winning the Super Bowl couldn't have an impact on recruiting football players to Tennessee.
 
#66
#66
hmanvolfan said:
I watched a basketball game last night nationally televised on ESPN between Tennessee and LSU. On the pregame talk it was conspiciously brought up by the TV crew that Peyton was a Tennessee QB and his NFL team just won the Super Bowl, complete with video of Peyton in his Big Orange uniform. Now this nationally televised broadcast just happened to be on the eve of national signing day. Could've possibly swayed a football player on the fence of who he might sign with and pick UT. Therefore I don't understand how you can say Peyton being a Volunteer and his team winning the Super Bowl couldn't have an impact on recruiting football players to Tennessee.
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i wore my ut hoodie around the Hampton Roads area yesterday. could be that one of these highly talented players from this area saw it and is going to sway them to wind up at UT.
 
#67
#67
volfanbill said:
i wore my ut hoodie around the Hampton Roads area yesterday. could be that one of these highly talented players from this area saw it and is going to sway them to wind up at UT.
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That surely will have an equal impact. :crazy:
 
#68
#68
hmanvolfan said:
I watched a basketball game last night nationally televised on ESPN between Tennessee and LSU. On the pregame talk it was conspiciously brought up by the TV crew that Peyton was a Tennessee QB and his NFL team just won the Super Bowl, complete with video of Peyton in his Big Orange uniform. Now this nationally televised broadcast just happened to be on the eve of national signing day. Could've possibly swayed a football player on the fence of who he might sign with and pick UT. Therefore I don't understand how you can say Peyton being a Volunteer and his team winning the Super Bowl couldn't have an impact on recruiting football players to Tennessee.
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I'm gonna agree with your general premise, but I'm gonna respectfully qualify your conclusions a little bit. Here's my take: Of all the QB's in the NFL, Peyton is unquestionably the one that is most linked to his college. I can't explain why this is, but its true. When people think of peyton, they think of tennessee.

Now that peyton has won the super bowl, he is appropriately regarded as both a great quarterback and a winning quarterback. So let's put 2 and 2 together. The public sees peyton as a great, winning quarterback, and they also remember him as a UT quarterback. As a result, this adds a little bit (just a little bit, but still a positive addition) to the tradition--or the "name"--of the program.

Recruits factors in the tradition of a program when they make their decision. They do this whether they realize it or not. This is why teams that have been good historically are--for the most part--still good currently. So, if you accept my argument that peyton's super bowl victory adds a little something to the way that the general public (recruits included) view the program, then it certainly doesn't hurt recruiting.

I'm disagreeing with hman only in that I think it unlikely that a recruit would see peyton winning the super bowl and then immediately decide to go to UT. I don't think that would happen. I don't think the SB win has a *direct* effect on recruiting. But if it adds to the perception/tradition/name/lore/legend of the program in any way (and I think it does), then it will help recruiting in an *indirect* way.

Did I articulate that very well? I hope that made sense.
 
#69
#69
jakez4ut said:
now that's not entirely accurate.
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OK, he surpassed Kelly's hype but the hype he received and the expectations of the UF fans absolutely overwhelmed him.

I am a Leak fan and think he throws the prettiest ball in all of football, but he has not suddenly catapulted himself into the same league as Manning by winning the NC. That is crazy. Leak's ridiculous father wouldn't even take him in a pickup game if Manning were available.
 
#70
#70
kidbourbon said:
I'm gonna agree with your general premise, but I'm gonna respectfully qualify your conclusions a little bit. Here's my take: Of all the QB's in the NFL, Peyton is unquestionably the one that is most linked to his college. I can't explain why this is, but its true. When people think of peyton, they think of tennessee.

Now that peyton has won the super bowl, he is appropriately regarded as both a great quarterback and a winning quarterback. So let's put 2 and 2 together. The public sees peyton as a great, winning quarterback, and they also remember him as a UT quarterback. As a result, this adds a little bit (just a little bit, but still a positive addition) to the tradition--or the "name"--of the program.

Recruits factors in the tradition of a program when they make their decision. They do this whether they realize it or not. This is why teams that have been good historically are--for the most part--still good currently. So, if you accept my argument that peyton's super bowl victory adds a little something to the way that the general public (recruits included) view the program, then it certainly doesn't hurt recruiting.

I'm disagreeing with hman only in that I think it unlikely that a recruit would see peyton winning the super bowl and then immediately decide to go to UT. I don't think that would happen. I don't think the SB win has a *direct* effect on recruiting. But if it adds to the perception/tradition/name/lore/legend of the program in any way (and I think it does), then it will help recruiting in an *indirect* way.

Did I articulate that very well? I hope that made sense.
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I didn't say just because the Colts won the Super Bowl and Peyton went to UT the recruit would choose Tennessee. I said the by product of all that is the piece on a nationally televised basketball game about Peyton being a Volunteer, complete with video of him in his Tennessee uniform, being a bonus for recruiting. Does that make sense?
 
#71
#71
kidbourbon said:
I'm gonna agree with your general premise, but I'm gonna respectfully qualify your conclusions a little bit. Here's my take: Of all the QB's in the NFL, Peyton is unquestionably the one that is most linked to his college. I can't explain why this is, but its true. When people think of peyton, they think of tennessee.

Now that peyton has won the super bowl, he is appropriately regarded as both a great quarterback and a winning quarterback. So let's put 2 and 2 together. The public sees peyton as a great, winning quarterback, and they also remember him as a UT quarterback. As a result, this adds a little bit (just a little bit, but still a positive addition) to the tradition--or the "name"--of the program.

Recruits factors in the tradition of a program when they make their decision. They do this whether they realize it or not. This is why teams that have been good historically are--for the most part--still good currently. So, if you accept my argument that peyton's super bowl victory adds a little something to the way that the general public (recruits included) view the program, then it certainly doesn't hurt recruiting.

I'm disagreeing with hman only in that I think it unlikely that a recruit would see peyton winning the super bowl and then immediately decide to go to UT. I don't think that would happen. I don't think the SB win has a *direct* effect on recruiting. But if it adds to the perception/tradition/name/lore/legend of the program in any way (and I think it does), then it will help recruiting in an *indirect* way.

Did I articulate that very well? I hope that made sense.
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that is a big if...for some it will add those things and some it won't make a bit of difference. and that's the way it is....so your point is valid.

i think you pretty much got it.

The Super Bowl added to or enhanced or validated Pyeton's legacy, to which his time at Tenneseee will forever be linked to. So from that standpoint, i think you nailed it.
 
#72
#72
kidbourbon said:
This is where your argument breaks down, LG. Of all the losses that UT had to UF with manning at the helm, only one could really be argued as manning not stepping up "when the chips were down." I mean, what was the guy supposed to do when spurrier hung 62 on us? Is he supposed to play defense?
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Ergo I pick DW.
 
#73
#73
kidbourbon said:
I'm gonna agree with your general premise, but I'm gonna respectfully qualify your conclusions a little bit. Here's my take: Of all the QB's in the NFL, Peyton is unquestionably the one that is most linked to his college. I can't explain why this is, but its true. When people think of peyton, they think of tennessee.

Now that peyton has won the super bowl, he is appropriately regarded as both a great quarterback and a winning quarterback. So let's put 2 and 2 together. The public sees peyton as a great, winning quarterback, and they also remember him as a UT quarterback. As a result, this adds a little bit (just a little bit, but still a positive addition) to the tradition--or the "name"--of the program.

Recruits factors in the tradition of a program when they make their decision. They do this whether they realize it or not. This is why teams that have been good historically are--for the most part--still good currently. So, if you accept my argument that peyton's super bowl victory adds a little something to the way that the general public (recruits included) view the program, then it certainly doesn't hurt recruiting.

I'm disagreeing with hman only in that I think it unlikely that a recruit would see peyton winning the super bowl and then immediately decide to go to UT. I don't think that would happen. I don't think the SB win has a *direct* effect on recruiting. But if it adds to the perception/tradition/name/lore/legend of the program in any way (and I think it does), then it will help recruiting in an *indirect* way.

Did I articulate that very well? I hope that made sense.
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Uhhhh... wrong! This is true only if you went to Tennessee. Right now, more people associate Vince Young with Texas than care about where Manning went to school. Same with Reggie Bush. Its whoever is last in big name.
 
#74
#74
lawgator1 said:
Uhhhh... wrong! This is true only if you went to Tennessee. Right now, more people associate Vince Young with Texas than care about where Manning went to school. Same with Reggie Bush. Its whoever is last in big name.
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I don't know about that. Reggie Bush and Vince get a lot of publicity, but Manning (as stated by Michael Irvin) is the new Michael Jordan. You think NFL, you think Peyton Manning. Everyone knows he went to UT. He has the Southern accent and everything. I bet most people even think he is from Tennessee.
 
#75
#75
kptvol said:
I don't know about that. Reggie Bush and Vince get a lot of publicity, but Manning (as stated by Michael Irvin) is the new Michael Jordan. You think NFL, you think Peyton Manning. Everyone knows he went to UT. He has the Southern accent and everything. I bet most people even think he is from Tennessee.
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Okay, you guys are starting to scare me. Tell you what. Go get on a plane to L.A. and sit in a sports bar this weekend and tell me if the conversations about the NFL don't run 3 to 1 about Bush or Lenihart (or even Young) over Peyton Manning. Enough already!!
 
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