Still not convinced (defense)

[salutethehill]

If we're looking at stats, this one is the key. It means we're completely shutting offenses down in the second half as opposed to blowing 4 quarter leads.

How would you not be looking at stats? The score is a stat. Stats are king. Guts suck.

 

[goldvol]

Appleby was BARELY the back up. It came down to the wire between the two, with Del Rio getting the nod due to better mastery of the offense and better ball management. Appleby is clearly the superior athlete and he's a fifth year senior. He may have played for a crappy school prior to transferring to UF, but this was by no means his first time starting a Div I college football game.

Florida's OC called a great first half. Shoop adjusted and whooped him in the second half. Not sure what your motivation for all the negativity is after one of the biggest wins in Vol history. Of course there is room for improvement, but Jancek is by no means on the same level as Shoop. But if you're still not convinced, just check back with the two coaches in 5 years and see where they are.

The first paragraph I don't think is accurate. The Florida fans were telling us before the game how much they disliked Appleby.

And I am not being negative. I think our defense is great, but I also think last year our defense was good as well. The only concern in the stats is the red zone defense, but it's just stating the facts. It's an area I'm sure everyone here wants to improve on

 

[sjt18]

Let me start out by saying I am a sunshine pumper and Butch Jones supporter. My friends were texting me Saturday in the 1st half, and I just told them to relax, there's still a half of football to play.

That being said, I have not been convinced that Shoop is a huge upgrade over Jancek. I know most people on here thought and think that he is.

So, like I've done in the past, I looked up some of our defensive statistics for this year.
Overall, the numbers aren't terrible. Scoring defense - 37th. 3rd down defense - 42nd. 4th down defense (why Jancek was fired) - 39th.

However, redzone defense is a huge area of concern. Opponents have had 13 redzone opportunities. They have scored 12 times out of 13, including 8 touchdowns! This puts us in the bottom of the barrel at 98th out of 128. Team sacks are also surprisingly at the bottom: 102nd out of 128.

The other big factor with these numbers is that we have just begun SEC play. I don't expect these numbers to suddenly improve against Texas A&M and Bama, etc.

So, while I am not saying Shoop is bad or has underperformed, so far I haven't seen a huge statistical difference in the defensive performance.
Please let me know if you think our defense is vastly improved, and also provide some concrete areas you feel Shoop has upgraded the most.

I expect "2nd half adjustments" to be mentioned, but in my thinking, I want the 1st and 2nd half to have phenomenal defense.

Red Zone Defense | FBS Football Statistics - NCAA.com

I can't honestly explain why UT started the season so poorly or has struggled at times on D.

I can say that UF is by far the most talented team UT has faced this year and that the Vols 2nd half performance was as good as any D effort as I've seen in all of my years following the Vols.

Shoop so far has been much better at adjusting than setting a great game plan from the start but I don't think that's been his career MO.

You could be seeing nothing much more than Shoop still getting to know his players.

And to be completely fair, VT with a new coach and not much film was a tough draw.

Ohio was actually the most disappointing D performance to me.... and they got little help from the O.


FWIW, I think their stats may well improve over the full course of SEC play.

 

[sirwalterraleigh]

Most of UF's offense in the first half came on long bombs to Calloway. This, without our best corner in the game. The guy covering him was the same guy that game UF a short field on the first series of the game. This defense is night and day compared to last years. We are attacking instead of sitting back waiting for the play to come to us. You disagree, but that's just what I see. Do I hope that we can show more of that in the early part of games? Yes, but I cant argue with method when we are 4-0 and completely shutting down offenses in the second half and just coming off beating a team for the first time in 11 years.

The first bomb to Calloway caught us in a safety blitz to that side, leaving martin without help. Just a good counter to Shoop being aggressive.

Shoop is definitely an improvement. I think the lack of sacks by the d-line has more to do with the style of offense of teams we've played, plus them gameplanning for it rather than a lack of production on our part. I have been impressed with interior lineman play with more stunts and twists compared to last year.

 

[wtmvol]

I think it's still too early to decide anything, and defensive ranking stats are still extremely volatile. I'm pretty high on Shoop though, much higher than Jancek. Here is what is forming my opinion:

1. We have more than 4 games to go by with Shoop. Looking back to his days at Vanderbilt, he was able to take marginal talent and cause opposing SEC offenses to under-perform. Same thing at Penn State.

2. Our defense is very talented, but we've had a lot of injuries that have stretched us thin. Losing JRM, Kirkland, and Sutton sounds like worst-case scenario to us if you told us that prior to the season.

3. Not a lot of data yet to go by, but this is now 2 P5 opponents that have been completed stymied by our defense after 1st quarter success. It's interesting to note that both of these teams gave us very little film to go by in preparation for the games (Tech with a new coach and Florida with a new QB). It's refreshing to believe that our team is going to get better from the start of the game to the finish, as opposed to just hoping we can cling to a lead while running out clock.

 

[goldvol]

I think it's still too early to decide anything, and defensive ranking stats are still extremely volatile. I'm pretty high on Shoop though, much higher than Jancek. Here is what is forming my opinion:

1. We have more than 4 games to go by with Shoop. Looking back to his days at Vanderbilt, he was able to take marginal talent and cause opposing SEC offenses to under-perform. Same thing at Penn State.

2. Our defense is very talented, but we've had a lot of injuries that have stretched us thin. Losing JRM, Kirkland, and Sutton sounds like worst-case scenario to us if you told us that prior to the season.

3. Not a lot of data yet to go by, but this is now 2 P5 opponents that have been completed stymied by our defense after 1st quarter success. It's interesting to note that both of these teams gave us very little film to go by in preparation for the games (Tech with a new coach and Florida with a new QB). It's refreshing to believe that our team is going to get better from the start of the game to the finish, as opposed to just hoping we can cling to a lead while running out clock.

Some good information here. I hope your point #3 continues in that trend. We'll really know if that's true in the next 4 games.

 

[butchna]

Aha, but Florida was also playing with their backup QB, so that kind of evens out with last year, right? ilot:

Florida? BACKUP QB? You a NEW fan? :huh:

 

[edyeary]

Considering all the injuries and some of the bad circumstances [like JRM's ejection] and early lack of support from the offense I think the defense has been very tough and resilient. I'd love to see them healthy with a decent first half offense keeping them off the field so much. They have seemed to get more dominant as the game has gone along each game this year. Depth has to be the reason for that. Shoop has made a few bad calls but overall I have liked his aggressiveness much better than on some of the last few issues of Vol defense.

 

[Smokey123]

We had Kirkland and Sutton out, JRM out for over half the game. Still held UF to 102 yards and a 3 and out every drive in the second half but one. He can make second half adjustments, Jancek couldn't. We lose without Shoop

 

[midtnvol2]

Let me start out by saying I am a sunshine pumper and Butch Jones supporter. My friends were texting me Saturday in the 1st half, and I just told them to relax, there's still a half of football to play.

That being said, I have not been convinced that Shoop is a huge upgrade over Jancek. I know most people on here thought and think that he is.

So, like I've done in the past, I looked up some of our defensive statistics for this year.
Overall, the numbers aren't terrible. Scoring defense - 37th. 3rd down defense - 42nd. 4th down defense (why Jancek was fired) - 39th.

However, redzone defense is a huge area of concern. Opponents have had 13 redzone opportunities. They have scored 12 times out of 13, including 8 touchdowns! This puts us in the bottom of the barrel at 98th out of 128. Team sacks are also surprisingly at the bottom: 102nd out of 128.

The other big factor with these numbers is that we have just begun SEC play. I don't expect these numbers to suddenly improve against Texas A&M and Bama, etc.

So, while I am not saying Shoop is bad or has underperformed, so far I haven't seen a huge statistical difference in the defensive performance.
Please let me know if you think our defense is vastly improved, and also provide some concrete areas you feel Shoop has upgraded the most.

I expect "2nd half adjustments" to be mentioned, but in my thinking, I want the 1st and 2nd half to have phenomenal defense.

Red Zone Defense | FBS Football Statistics - NCAA.com

You concerns are backwards OP. You should be concerned about the coach not recruiting and devloping OL and LB's. Our lock down corner is out for the season, both starting LBs and only one quality backup LB are injured, and Shoop has consistently locked down every opponent so far this season either from the 2nd qtr or 2nd half of the game. He is the only consistant part of our game.

 

[Big Orange Rock]

Also keep in mind that we are in the first 4 games of his tenure at Tn. Keep in mind that in two of those 4 games he was not going to show anything on D. He is just fine. Seeing the things listed above I think we are just fine and much improved over Jancek who had several years to implement his system. He is also doing this with players he did not recruit. I think he will be fine. You don't implement a successful defense overnight...... see UGA.

 

[JohnD13]

Let me start out by saying I am a sunshine pumper and Butch Jones supporter. My friends were texting me Saturday in the 1st half, and I just told them to relax, there's still a half of football to play.

That being said, I have not been convinced that Shoop is a huge upgrade over Jancek. I know most people on here thought and think that he is.

So, like I've done in the past, I looked up some of our defensive statistics for this year.
Overall, the numbers aren't terrible. Scoring defense - 37th. 3rd down defense - 42nd. 4th down defense (why Jancek was fired) - 39th.

However, redzone defense is a huge area of concern. Opponents have had 13 redzone opportunities. They have scored 12 times out of 13, including 8 touchdowns! This puts us in the bottom of the barrel at 98th out of 128. Team sacks are also surprisingly at the bottom: 102nd out of 128.

The other big factor with these numbers is that we have just begun SEC play. I don't expect these numbers to suddenly improve against Texas A&M and Bama, etc.

So, while I am not saying Shoop is bad or has underperformed, so far I haven't seen a huge statistical difference in the defensive performance.
Please let me know if you think our defense is vastly improved, and also provide some concrete areas you feel Shoop has upgraded the most.

I expect "2nd half adjustments" to be mentioned, but in my thinking, I want the 1st and 2nd half to have phenomenal defense.

Red Zone Defense | FBS Football Statistics - NCAA.com

IMHO you are wrong.

 

[goldvol]

IMHO you are wrong.

Cool. About which part?

And, in your humble opinion, why do you think differently?

 

[givensme]

So here are the stats thru the 1st 4 games last year by quarter. 17 points and 317 yards in the 1st quarter. 16 points and 397 yards in the 2nd quarter. 17 points and 297 yards in the 3rd quarter. 35 points and 470 yards in the 4th quarter. Here is the stats thru the 1st 4 games this year. 34 points and 490 yards in the 1st quarter. 26 points and 374 yards in the 2nd quarter. 10 points and 220 yards in the 3rd quarter. 14 points and 291 yards in the 4th quarter. So 1st half last year is 33 points and 714 yards that is 4.1 points a quarter and 89 yards. 2nd half last year was 52 points and 767 yards that is 6.5 points per quarter and 96 yards. This year 1st half is 60 points and 864 yards that is 7.5 points per quarter and 108 yards. 2nd half is 24 points and 511 yards that is 3 points per quarter and 68 yards.

 

[bignewt]

USF safeties coach

that is one upward career trajectory right there.

 

[Poppa T]

IMO raw stats can be misleading and should be looked at with context. How does the number of red zone opportunities compare? Thru 1st 4 games we have allowed teams to get to red zone 13 times? ~3/game. Is that a good stat? Maybe, but then you have to look at how many scores teams had from outside redzone. Stats give a coach a discrete area they can improve on. The end result being improvement of the most important stat...win/loss. So far Shoop seems to be a better coach in his evaluation of the data and adjusting for positioning the D to succeed. JMO.

 

[Foster's Tacos]

So that performance Saturday against a backup qb was so much better than last year where they also scored 28 points?
Again, you are talking about the second half, and I hope we learn to bring that defense and scheming to the start of the game.

I'd say not giving up a first down in the 3rd quarter could qualify as being significantly better. And "without their starting QB" like last year their offense was light years ahead of this one. Stop being a debbie downer and enjoy the win.

 

[barrylee]

Thanks for that insight. In what areas do you feel he is improved? I mean, our depth and experience was going to be improved even if Jancek wasn't fired. So how is Shoop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jancek in your opinion.

I don't have all the stats like you but I truly believe if Jancek was DC last Saturday, when Fla gets ball at the 2yd line, they drive down and score another td and have a chance at another on-side kick. Announcers even mentioned how different we are this year, meaning going after the QB instead of playing soft..

I much prefer this year's rendition!

 

[YorkVol]

Guys, I understand that and I am happy with that. It was a nice turnaround. Wouldn't it have been nicer not to have needed that turnaround? AKA played great defense in the first half? We can't keep coming into games unprepared, offense and defense, and coming back in the 2nd half against SEC opponents.

Some teams play better from behind for whatever reason. You're taking statistics out of context to prove your point. Bottom line is they can run or pass all they want at the beginning, so long as we shut them down when it counts. Which we have done.

 

[BACKDOC]

Let me start out by saying I am a sunshine pumper and Butch Jones supporter. My friends were texting me Saturday in the 1st half, and I just told them to relax, there's still a half of football to play.

That being said, I have not been convinced that Shoop is a huge upgrade over Jancek. I know most people on here thought and think that he is.

So, like I've done in the past, I looked up some of our defensive statistics for this year.
Overall, the numbers aren't terrible. Scoring defense - 37th. 3rd down defense - 42nd. 4th down defense (why Jancek was fired) - 39th.

However, redzone defense is a huge area of concern. Opponents have had 13 redzone opportunities. They have scored 12 times out of 13, including 8 touchdowns! This puts us in the bottom of the barrel at 98th out of 128. Team sacks are also surprisingly at the bottom: 102nd out of 128.

The other big factor with these numbers is that we have just begun SEC play. I don't expect these numbers to suddenly improve against Texas A&M and Bama, etc.

So, while I am not saying Shoop is bad or has underperformed, so far I haven't seen a huge statistical difference in the defensive performance.
Please let me know if you think our defense is vastly improved, and also provide some concrete areas you feel Shoop has upgraded the most.

I expect "2nd half adjustments" to be mentioned, but in my thinking, I want the 1st and 2nd half to have phenomenal defense.

Red Zone Defense | FBS Football Statistics - NCAA.com

Ohio had not given up a sack all year; App. ST. mostly ran, and got the ball out quick on pass plays. Not to mention Ohio was a trap game if there ever was one. We should have more opportunities for sacks in the future, especially against Eason.

 

[1974Vol]

Let me start out by saying I am a sunshine pumper and Butch Jones supporter. My friends were texting me Saturday in the 1st half, and I just told them to relax, there's still a half of football to play.

That being said, I have not been convinced that Shoop is a huge upgrade over Jancek. I know most people on here thought and think that he is.

So, like I've done in the past, I looked up some of our defensive statistics for this year.
Overall, the numbers aren't terrible. Scoring defense - 37th. 3rd down defense - 42nd. 4th down defense (why Jancek was fired) - 39th.

However, redzone defense is a huge area of concern. Opponents have had 13 redzone opportunities. They have scored 12 times out of 13, including 8 touchdowns! This puts us in the bottom of the barrel at 98th out of 128. Team sacks are also surprisingly at the bottom: 102nd out of 128.

The other big factor with these numbers is that we have just begun SEC play. I don't expect these numbers to suddenly improve against Texas A&M and Bama, etc.

So, while I am not saying Shoop is bad or has underperformed, so far I haven't seen a huge statistical difference in the defensive performance.
Please let me know if you think our defense is vastly improved, and also provide some concrete areas you feel Shoop has upgraded the most.

I expect "2nd half adjustments" to be mentioned, but in my thinking, I want the 1st and 2nd half to have phenomenal defense.

Red Zone Defense | FBS Football Statistics - NCAA.com

Well he goes my answer. Missing 3 of the best defenders and team leaders against a team that has beaten the Vols 11 in a row and down 21 at half Shoops boys come out and play the best defense I've seen a Tennessee team play since Al Wilson ran out of eligibility. Contrast that with blowing how many 4th quarter leads last year? Butch keeps talking complimentary football do you know what he means? He means when Josh Dobbs throws his second INT to kill the first drive of the 2nd half your D takes the field and holds the Florida f'ing Gators to 0 first downs and -9 yards for the entire 3rd quarter and FIRES your whole freakin' team up to the point that they make the 2nd biggest comeback in school history. Some things stats can't measure so you just look at the score board for your answers!! GBO

 

[goldvol]

I'd say not giving up a first down in the 3rd quarter could qualify as being significantly better. And "without their starting QB" like last year their offense was light years ahead of this one. Stop being a debbie downer and enjoy the win.

Well, no one's accused me of that recently. Since you don't know me, it's understandable. All of my football friends tease me for being the most optimistic guy, sticking out every game to the end. Even in this game, my friends were texting me in the first half, and I was reassuring them that we still had a half of football to play. So I am the opposite of a Debbie downer. But, I like to discuss football and comparing Shoop to Jancek is a reasonable discussion and not a knock on either.

 

[goldvol]

Some teams play better from behind for whatever reason. You're taking statistics out of context to prove your point. Bottom line is they can run or pass all they want at the beginning, so long as we shut them down when it counts. Which we have done.

I only presented 2 negative statistics. I don't feel I took them out of context, and in fact expressed my surprise that the sack stat is so low given that the DL is one of our strengths.

Secondly, as far as shutting them down when it counts, that only matters as far as our offense can score to keep up. If our offense doesn't come alive in the second half, we still lose the game no matter how well the 2nd half defense was, so there is more to football than just playing good defense at the end of the game. Most of the time, good defense is needed through the ENTIRE game of SEC play.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Poppa T]

I only presented 2 negative statistics. I don't feel I took them out of context, and in fact expressed my surprise that the sack stat is so low given that the DL is one of our strength.

Secondly, as far as shutting them down when it counts, that only matters as far as our offense can score to keep up. If our offense doesn't come alive in the second half, we still lose the game no matter how well the 2nd half defense was, so there is more to football than just playing good defense at the end of the game. Most of the time, good defense is needed through the ENTIRE game of SEC play.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Gold, think you might have answered you own conundrum. There is more to a coach's defense than the number of red zone stops that the new coach has (over a very short sample size I might add) compared to what the old coach had. My many years of Vol Football has taught me not to sweat the details, enjoy the wins.

 

[goldvol]

Gold, think you might have answered you own conundrum. There is more to a coach's defense than the number of red zone stops that the new coach has (over a very short sample size I might add) compared to what the old coach had. My many years of Vol Football has taught me not to sweat the details, enjoy the wins.[/QUOTE]

Good advice. I enjoyed it more than most, since I don't freak out when things aren't going our way.