State of the Union Address

#401
#401
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
In no way am I saying that private schools do not have problems. I would not view it as a perfect bubble of education. I am simply saying that the public school system needs to be able to flunk a kid all the way to 18 if they don't want to learn and if that kid doesn't get a job he needs to starve. There is no longer a fear of failure in this country. That has become a huge problem and the public school system is alot of this problem.
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one problem private schools do not have that public schools do is the teachers' unions. I'm not going to throw any individual teacher under the bus, but the unions and the entire department of education need to be tossed off a very high cliff.
 
#402
#402
bam15 said:
I'm infinitely pleased with most of my past educators. My school allowed you to take multiple AP classes in which the difficulty and amount of work were up to par or at times more difficult than college. I have no arguments with attending private schools, but to simply attack public-school teachers as the root of the problem, and frankly to the point of looking down on them is ridiculous. Most have more education than 99% of the public and make little to nothing.
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i know some public school teachers and they definetely mail it in a lot more than private school teachers. one i know takes a sick day at least once a month because he's too hungover to go to class. there is definetely a culture of lack of accountability that doesn't exist in most private schools.

Ihatethebuckeyes said:
In no way am I saying that private schools do not have problems. I would not view it as a perfect bubble of education. I am simply saying that the public school system needs to be able to flunk a kid all the way to 18 if they don't want to learn and if that kid doesn't get a job he needs to starve. There is no longer a fear of failure in this country. That has become a huge problem and the public school system is alot of this problem.
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completely agree. if anything i'd argue a lot of the problem at private schools are overactive parents. parents that push their kids too hard or think their kids are much smarter than they actually are and try to force them into ap classes they can't handle and the like. but i assure you that's a lot better than parents that don't give a crap.
 
#403
#403
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
45K to work 9 months and nice benefits is not next to nothing. That's not a great salary but it is also not horrible. It's middle income. I would say teachers should be middle income.

And yes, the teachers union does more harm than good in this country.
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45,000 in the East Tennessee area for nine months of work is a pretty good salary.
 
#404
#404
utgibbs said:
That's positively Marxist!

Education MUST be linked to the means of production. That's where real education takes place - how to work in the real world in all four dimensions. PhD work in the physical sciences, when it is still experimental, is about the only time we make this vital connection. The education system needs a reboot.

Well done, droski! :thumbsup:
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not sure you know what marxist means. i'm certainly not suggesting those trade schools get paid for by the public.
 
#406
#406
utgibbs said:
That's positively Marxist!

Education MUST be linked to the means of production. That's where real education takes place - how to work in the real world in all four dimensions. PhD work in the physical sciences, when it is still experimental, is about the only time we make this vital connection. The education system needs a reboot.

Well done, droski! :thumbsup:
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No it's not marxist it's realistic. Not everyone is headed for an office job.
 
#407
#407
Volst53 said:
45,000 in the East Tennessee area for nine months of work is a pretty good salary.
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in california you can easily top out around $90k a year if you have a grad degree and years of experience. i know a couple who were teachers for 30 years a piece making $150k a year in retirement income. seems a bit much.
 
#408
#408
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
45K to work 9 months and nice benefits is not next to nothing. That's not a great salary but it is also not horrible. It's middle income. I would say teachers should be middle income.

And yes, the teachers union does more harm than good in this country.
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Teachers do not make the same in every state. Getting a BA, MA, and Rank I to make 45k is rather poor.
 
#409
#409
A good teacher is priceless. The issue starts when you get one that doesn't like being a teacher but feels stuck in the field and just stays for a pay check.
 
#410
#410
bam15 said:
I'm infinitely pleased with most of my past educators. My school allowed you to take multiple AP classes in which the difficulty and amount of work were up to par or at times more difficult than college.
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I went to a good HS but I also went to a private MS. My freshman year was basically a repeat of my 8th grade year at the private school. Those guys weren't taking harder classes by the time we were seniors but I actually had to work to get back to that level at the public school.Although it was nice to have much smaller classes when you got to things like AP physics and Calc II

bam15 said:
I have no arguments with attending private schools, but to simply attack public-school teachers as the root of the problem, and frankly to the point of looking down on them is ridiculous. Most have more education than 99% of the public and make little to nothing.
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I would really disagree with your 99% figure just based on how many people in the US have college degrees. As the son of a public shool teacher I would never put all the blame on them but there are some bad teachers.
 
#411
#411
Volst53 said:
A good teacher is priceless. The issue starts when you get one that doesn't like being a teacher but feels stuck in the field and just stays for a pay check.
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Usually, those are male coaches in the history department.
 
#413
#413
droski said:
she's not teaching there anymore. currently she's at a catholic school. the principle has changed grades there because of parent complaints and one parent complianed she was giving a kid bad grades because she didn't understand her culture. so even private schools have these issues.
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While not a contradiction (in the least) but a bolstering comment:

An uncle of mine left his legal profession to teach English (he was burned out and wanted to feel like he did his community good) at a public school in the LA area (no idea which).

He strove to teach his students proper english but was lambasted for not understanding the differences between black, vietnamese, chinese, korean, mexican, salvadorean, guatemalan, etc cultures. Those kids could introduce themselves to the US culture without having to adapt and the US culture, instead, must overextend itself to adapt to the multitudes of cultures that exist in the world's most culturally diverse country.

His "we're all Americans and should all adapt both culturally and linguistically" attitude did not go over well, obviously. Why that attitude is seen as culturally insensitive I'll never understand.
 
#414
#414
utvolpj said:
I went to a good HS but I also went to a private MS. My freshman year was basically a repeat of my 8th grade year at the private school. Those guys weren't taking harder classes by the time we were seniors but I actually had to work to get back to that level at the public school. It was nice though to have much smaller classes when you got to things like AP physics and Calc II



I would really disagree with your 99% figure just based on how many people in the US have college degrees. As the son of a public shool teacher I would never put all the blame on them but there are some bad teachers.
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I can tell you that by the Junior and Senior years, almost all of your classes are with the same people (AP/Honors).

Bad teachers yes, but when my parents, and half my family are educators, I find most of these accusations to be ridiculous.
 
#416
#416
utvolpj said:
I went to a good HS but I also went to a private MS. My freshman year was basically a repeat of my 8th grade year at the private school. Those guys weren't taking harder classes by the time we were seniors but I actually had to work to get back to that level at the public school.Although it was nice to have much smaller classes when you got to things like AP physics and Calc II



I would really disagree with your 99% figure just based on how many people in the US have college degrees. As the son of a public shool teacher I would never put all the blame on them but there are some bad teachers.
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There are some seriously fed up teachers who actually care but have waved the white flag. I've met a couple PS teachers who just go through the motions now because they can't even give out homework and no one is listening to them and they have no control.
 
#418
#418
bam15 said:
I can tell you that by the Junior and Senior years, almost all of your classes are with the same people (AP/Honors).
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heck I was back with the same people I had been grouped with in elementary school.

bam15 said:
Bad teachers yes, but when my parents, and half my family are educators, I find most of these accusations to be ridiculous.
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I agree 100% but the few bad apples...
 
#420
#420
bam15 said:
I can tell you that by the Junior and Senior years, almost all of your classes are with the same people (AP/Honors).

Bad teachers yes, but when my parents, and half my family are educators, I find most of these accusations to be ridiculous.
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Ah, so this is personal?

Hard to have an honest discussion when your private life is tied to the arguement. Not blaming you or attacking you. But it is hard to be open minded when the topic is so close to home.
 
#421
#421
DC Vol said:
While not a contradiction (in the least) but a bolstering comment:

An uncle of mine left his legal profession to teach English (he was burned out and wanted to feel like he did his community good) at a public school in the LA area (no idea which).

He strove to teach his students proper english but was lambasted for not understanding the differences between black, vietnamese, chinese, korean, mexican, salvadorean, guatemalan, etc cultures. Those kids could introduce themselves to the US culture without having to adapt and the US culture, instead, must overextend itself to adapt to the multitudes of cultures that exist in the world's most culturally diverse country.

His "we're all Americans and should all adapt both culturally and linguistically" attitude did not go over well, obviously. Why that attitude is seen as culturally insensitive I'll never understand.
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what is lost is they aren't doing these kids any favors by telling them inproper english is ok. the biggest problem she's seen is that these parents use inproper english themselves and therefore don't get it.
 
#422
#422
Volst53 said:
Drive Ed teachers put their life in danger every day.
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fortunately I don't think a head injury would affect them too bad

Ihatethebuckeyes said:
There are some seriously fed up teachers who actually care but have waved the white flag. I've met a couple PS teachers who just go through the motions now because they can't even give out homework and no one is listening to them and they have no control.
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it's definitely gotten worse and I can see why many feel that way. Especially when many parents now view school as a gov't sponsored babysitter
 
#425
#425
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
Ah, so this is personal?

Hard to have an honest discussion when your private life is tied to the arguement. Not blaming you or attacking you. But it is hard to be open minded when the topic is so close to home.
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Oh, I don't know.

This is like saying your parent's contribution to society is/was worthless.
 
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