Stars matter, end of discussion

#51
#51
GT09 said:
And heres why they dont...these are Scout rankings BTW.


2010 AP 1st Team All Americans


OFFENSE

Quarterback - Cam Newton, junior, 6-foot-6, 250 pounds, Auburn****

Running backs - LaMichael James, sophomore, 5-9, 185, Oregon***

Kendall Hunter, junior, 5-9, 200, Oklahoma State***

Tackles - Gabe Carimi, senior, 6-7, 327, Wisconsin***

Nate Solder, senior, 6-9, 315, Colorado **

Guards - Rodney Hudson, senior, 6-2, 282, Florida State***

John Moffitt, senior, 6-5, 323, Wisconsin **

Center - Chase Beeler, senior, 6-3, 285, Stanford ***

Tight end - Michael Egnew, junior, 6-6, 235, Missouri **

Wide receivers - Justin Blackmon, sophomore, 6-1, 205, Oklahoma State***

Ryan Broyles, junior, 5-11, 183, Oklahoma ****

All-purpose player - Randall Cobb, junior, 5-11, 186, Kentucky **

Kicker - Alex Henery, senior, 6-2, 175, Nebraska* NO STARS


DEFENSE

Ends - Da'Quan Bowers, junior, 6-4, 275, Clemson*****

Ryan Kerrigan, senior, 6-4, 263, Purdue ***

Tackles - Nick Fairley, junior, 6-5, 298, Auburn***

Stephen Paea, senior, 6-1, 311, Oregon State ***

Linebackers - Luke Kuechly, sophomore, 6-3, 235, Boston College ***

Greg Jones, senior, 6-1, 240, Michigan State***

Von Miller, senior, 6-3, 243, Texas A&M ****

Cornerbacks - Patrick Peterson, junior, 6-1, 222, LSU*****

Prince Amukamara, senior, 6-1, 205, Nebraska ***

Safeties - Tejay Johnson, senior, 6-1, 212, TCU ***

Quinton Carter, senior, 6-1, 200, Oklahoma **

Punter - Chas Henry, junior, 6-3, 222, Florida ****


5 Stars: 2

4 Stars: 4

3 Stars: 13

2 Stars: 5

No Stars: 1


OVERALL AVERAGE : ***
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The main reason Auburn won the title was because of Cam Newton who was a 5 star. And the year before the title Auburn did pull the 4th ranked class in the country, which doesn't really matter much but thought I'd mention it.
 
#52
#52
Ravenheart said:
I'm glad you understand that part of my point. This is something that continues to be ignored by some on here. Talent helps, but you need coaches to guide the players and train them to be better than they are (in addition to the desire to compete and the will to win on the part of the players). It's not a hard concept to grasp.
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Our opinions differ because I believe talent is a absolutely necessity just like coaching.
 
#53
#53
Obviously I understand there are good 2 and 3* players, but statistically your chances of success are much higher if you sign a bunch of 4 and 5*s.
 
#54
#54
IndianVol said:
Our opinions differ because I believe talent is a absolutely necessity just like coaching.
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Talent is not the only factor that should be relied upon when building a team. It's a plus, but it is not the icing on the cake, so to speak. That's what I mean.
 
#55
#55
ric1958 said:
Exactly.....look at ESPN, Rivals, and Scout....they all 3 had different numbers on Sabans 2010 class.....they cant even agree on stars.
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So what you suggest is that we do the opposite of what Saban, Miles, and Meyer(what he did before he retired) do? They get highly ranked classes and win, but we should try to do the same with half the talent?
 
#56
#56
so this means 75% of people with 2 stars and less made Frosh AA? Don't see how this shows that stars matter.
 
#57
#57
If I'm not mistaken Patrick Willis was a 2* out of High School. He turned out okay. 2-3 time All American and now All-pro a few times, and on the flip side Chris Donald was a 5* out of high school and well he is now at UTC. Oh and the LB UT offered the year Willis signed with Ole Miss was Daniel Brooks, a 5* I believe and if not I know 4*, and well he ended his career at Jackson State. I know this is only a few examples, but it goes to show that stars don't really matter. Its the work that's put in by the athlete.

Oh and Nick Reveiz was a walk on.
 
#58
#58
Volsfan1984 said:
If I'm not mistaken Patrick Willis was a 2* out of High School. He turned out okay. 2-3 time All American and now All-pro a few times, and on the flip side Chris Donald was a 5* out of high school and well he is now at UTC. Oh and the LB UT offered the year Willis signed with Ole Miss was Daniel Brooks, a 5* I believe and if not I know 4*, and well he ended his career at Jackson State. I know this is only a few examples, but it goes to show that stars don't really matter. Its the work that's put in by the athlete.

Oh and Nick Reveiz was a walk on.
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Don't forget Marcel Dareus and Nick Fairley.
 
#60
#60
Volsfan1984 said:
If I'm not mistaken Patrick Willis was a 2* out of High School. He turned out okay. 2-3 time All American and now All-pro a few times, and on the flip side Chris Donald was a 5* out of high school and well he is now at UTC. Oh and the LB UT offered the year Willis signed with Ole Miss was Daniel Brooks, a 5* I believe and if not I know 4*, and well he ended his career at Jackson State. I know this is only a few examples, but it goes to show that stars don't really matter. Its the work that's put in by the athlete.

Oh and Nick Reveiz was a walk on.
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This is percentage game. Obviously there will always be 3 and 2 star players that become impact players on their teams. But if you have for example 50 four star and above players and 50 three star and below players, the four star and above group will have more impact players. That doesn't mean the other group will have no impact players.
 
#61
#61
"Thank you, volwarrior. Unfortunately, this will do little to end the discussion. The exceptions will continue to be brought up in every single recruiting thread ever started here."

This is the song that never ends, it goes on and on again...:)
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#62
#62
And then there are players like Brian Randolph and Jordan Williams where stars don't tell the tale.
 
#63
#63
RodDRfromTNinKY said:
"Thank you, volwarrior. Unfortunately, this will do little to end the discussion. The exceptions will continue to be brought up in every single recruiting thread ever started here."

This is the song that never ends, it goes on and on again...:)
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Also, why for the last 3 days, when I post on a computer rather than from my mobile does my board screen look different and there is no discernible quote/reply/etc buttons. I have to guess where things are, can't quote appropriately, no avatars, just a box and the text of your guys posts. My post above I am editing says it was posted via volnation mobile. My phone is logged into Volnation. Is there some default that if your phone is logged in then your PC when you log in automatically goes to that that screws up your display? Sorry to ask here. Didn't want to start a new thread, etc? Thanks for any help before hand.
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#64
#64
Ravenheart said:
Talent is not the only factor that should be relied upon when building a team. It's a plus, but it is not the icing on the cake, so to speak. That's what I mean.
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Talent is the main factor that should be considered when recruiting. Talent isn't the icing on the cake it's a necessity, I believe character is the icing on the cake. We have had leonard little and jamal lewis, guys with "low character", but we had success with. Of course I would love to have guys like eric berry, who have both talent and "character", but there aren't many of those around.
 
#67
#67
wham5575 said:
Farley will be a stud in the NFL as just a little old 3 star.
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Wow, I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand percentages, so I'll repost this...This is percentage game. Obviously there will always be 3 and 2 star players that become impact players on their teams. But if you have for example 50 four star and above players and 50 three star and below players, the four star and above group will have more impact players. That doesn't mean the other group will have no impact players.
 
#68
#68
I can agree with points made by both sides in this discussion. I'd like to offer my opinion. Stars are important, in that, it is a somewhat accurate guess on a players potential, however, it depends on the work ethic and coaching of a player to be able to tap into that potential. You can not put a number on a student athlete or any person and tell them what they can and can not do. You would have to add the human element to the star system and that is impossible. Scout, Rivals and ESPN look at intangibles, athletic ability and potential. They do not take time or have the time to get to know a kid like most coaches do when recruiting.

Just my :twocents:
 
#69
#69
RodDRfromTNinKY said:
"Thank you, volwarrior. Unfortunately, this will do little to end the discussion. The exceptions will continue to be brought up in every single recruiting thread ever started here."

This is the song that never ends, it goes on and on again...:)
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You are so right!
 
#70
#70
IndianVol said:
Talent is the main factor that should be considered when recruiting. Talent isn't the icing on the cake it's a necessity, I believe character is the icing on the cake. We have had leonard little and jamal lewis, guys with "low character", but we had success with. Of course I would love to have guys like eric berry, who have both talent and "character", but there aren't many of those around.
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Maybe not.
However, it's beneficial to go after kids with good character traits and solid academic standing, as those are the kids who are most likely to last three, four, or five years in the football program. I'm not saying that this is what a class should be comprised of 100 percent of the time, but those are the kids (regardless of stars) who can contribute to a healthy atmosphere in that program, free of controversy and bad publicity. Who knows, maybe they can teach others to follow their lead.
 
#71
#71
Ravenheart said:
Maybe not.
However, it's beneficial to go after kids with good character traits and solid academic standing, as those are the kids who are most likely to last three, four, or five years in the football program. I'm not saying that this is what a class should be comprised of 100 percent of the time, but those are the kids (regardless of stars) who can contribute to a healthy atmosphere in that program, free of controversy and bad publicity. Who knows, maybe they can teach others to follow their lead.
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When a program is winning everyone looks past the controversy and the bad press. For example UF has had problems off the field but they were winning, so the media focused on the winning not the troubles. Then there is mighty Nick Saban who seems to have virtually no trouble off the field, even with the highly ranked classes.
 
#72
#72
Stars definitely matter.....I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding that. Now is it a perfect system? No.....but your chances of success go way up if you sign more four or five star players than 2 or 3 stars. There's a reason that the highest ranked players are the most sought after...
 
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